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Why it is so hard to find a good singer?

Why it is so hard to find a good singer?

i have a track, i've made the lyrics and the melody

when i call several singers to sing, its hard to have a voice like carrie skipper, tiff lacey etc

I've tried lots of take, lots of audio channel, i selected the best one. edited with melodyne, put reverb and delay, eq-ing, compressing, audio editing,

still the voice is not as good as the commercial sound.

why it is so difficult?

for example

1st singer: voice to low, pitch are not right (i have to edit it a lot with melodyne)
2nd singer: to many vibrato. ive try to train them not to use many vibrato, but they just can't do that.
3rd singer: too soft, pitch are not right,
4th singer: bad voice
5th singer: quite good, but still far away from carrie skipper or tiff lacey.


i have 2 question here

1) is it really difficult to find a good singer?
2) how to contact tiff lacey/carrie skipper? is it possible for them to sing? if so, how? where to contact? how much should i pay them?

thanks

where are you doing the recording?? what room treatment do you have? what mics are you using? what mic preamps? monitoring? all those things will effect the overall sound...

or maybe the song isnt quite right for the singer

getting the pitch right is just one part of the puzzle...

how to contact tiff lacey/carrie skipper? is it possible for them to sing? if so, how? where to contact? how much should i pay them?

One way to guarantee disappointing results is to expect a singer to sound like someone she's not. Most singers spend many years developing their voices and singing styles. Work within HER strengths for the best results.

One other thing I'll add for your consideration is that each of those singers is probably thinking to herself "I gave this guy a great recording - why is it so hard to find a decent producer?"

This is an area where you really have to push them. Vocalists, by their nature, are lazy, many never bothering to pick up another instrument apart from their voice which they flaunt as a status symbol. If your vocalist isn't up to snuff, chances are she's just not trying hard enough.

You can change that, however. Making passive-aggressive stabs, instead of being specific about what you want, will help motivate her to correct the problem. Not happy with the last take? Say, "I must be at the opera, because it sounds like it's over." When she asks what you mean, roll your eyes and point at her belly, implying that while, yes, the fat lady just sang, she's fat and you're still not happy with her job performance.

Sometimes the Simon Cowel approach is called for. But, especially with women vocalists, the absolute last thing you want to do is make them feel small. "If only your talent matched your girth. Can you please make sure you're singing E-sharp when you start on the 17th measure?" Then, start the play-back right after you say, "Take 67!"

So, insignificant - yes. Small - no.

Anyway, keep at it. Don't change a thing about yourself. Instead, realize that you're doing them a favor by letting them sing. Keeping the locus of the problems in the studio, firmly in the singer's corner, will help ensure that she's in a constant state of reaction and unable to ascertain whether you're actually talented or just an incompetent hack, brushing off his inadequacies with a lot of psychological projection.

Also, don't listen to cryo. If that talent-coddling, baby-sitting producer knew what he was talking about he'd have settled on one vocalist instead of the three or more, he continually works with.

quote:

Originally posted by DreambreaX how to contact tiff lacey/carrie skipper? is it possible for them to sing? if so, how? where to contact? how much should i pay them?

they will probably tell you how much THEY charge rather than the other way round... dont expect it to be cheap. google is your friend here.

at EddieZ - I thought you were being serious for a moment there!

quote:

Originally posted by studiobob they will probably tell you how much THEY charge rather than the other way round... dont expect it to be cheap. google is your friend here.

Good point. Now, granted this is an area where I have very little experience, but I wouldn't for a second assume that it's as simple as finding their contact info, sending them a payment, and having them immediately jump on the recording for your track. Given their standing in the EDM industry, they probably get a lot of requests to sing on their songs and likely turn down (or ignore altogether) the vast majority of them, especially if it's from an unknown artist because they don't want to cheapen their image (I sure as hell wouldn't if I was in their position). One of the singers that I have worked with for years has only a very small presence in the EDM market and even she gets several random requests to sing on other people's tracks every week, most of which are from people who are all talk, no action, but that's a whole other story. Anyway, the point is, don't be surprised if you never hear from the singers or they just turn you down. It's much like sending your tracks to the larger labels - if you don't have a presence in the industry already, they may not be interested. But, as mentioned, I'm just making a lot of assumptions, so I could be wrong here.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik One other thing I'll add for your consideration is that each of those singers is probably thinking to herself "I gave this guy a great recording - why is it so hard to find a decent producer?"

lmfao

Just hire me as a singer. I guarantee that my vocals will give clubgoers an experience they will never forget!

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Just hire me as a singer. I guarantee that my vocals will give clubgoers an experience they will never forget!

Truth! There'd be no need to beat-match into new songs because the DJ could just put the track on repeat and leave.

I've been in a fair few hundred recording sessons now with vocalists, and the main thing is to start off with good talent.

May sound silly and blatantly obvious, but you have to listen to the vocalist's demo and see whether it will fit your track and whether they have the technique to sing it correctly.

When working with composers, they select vocalists base don a particular sound - I kind of liken it to me buying records; I can hear within 3-5 seconds whether that track is going to fit my style of DJing.

Same thing with vocalists - every session that I've been on where the vocalist isn't quite right for that track and they try to make it work, you can hear it. There's only so much you can fake and even with the biggest protools rigs at you disposal, you can only get it so far before you kill the life out of it.

The main thing is to listen to their intonation, pronunciation, tone and timbre, and learn to know how those things will fit your track.

Now having said this a lot can be done to get a particular performance from a vocalist....

and that's where the personality factor comes in - which can often make a decent vocal in to a truly great one....it's about what they bring given the right circumstances and direction, not to mention a bit of freedom.

It's about knowing how to read them - the best guys I've worked with are masters of manipulation (both in a good way a bad way). They know whether to make this person comfrtable to get a result, or they know by scolding them or pushing them they'll get a better result.

There's of course the usual tricks (like if they're flat, low then feed to their cans and make them push their voice in to pitch) but one of the biggest things is getting the right sound in their head. By that I mean, they should understand what your track is about, even if it's a rough bed track. That way they can mold their voice to it etc.

The other big thing is reverb for the vocalist. Some love tons of reverb on their voice when recording, and it's often a confidence thing as it masks the centre of pitch (which is why people love to sing in the shower with all that splash off flat surfaces etc), but you have to get it right. I've heard the same vocalist give two virtually entirely different performances of the same track because they had different reverbs during different takes.

You always want to record dry of course, but that reverb makes them sing so differently so learn what type does what effect to certain vocalists.

Finally, choose equipment that suits that vocal. Don't put an SM58 on someone with really velvety mids tones, and don't put a U47 on a male punk vocal. Think about gain staging, compression (if any) and EQ with their range and power.

So the short answer IMO, is a combination of you selecting the right person for the task, engineering it correctly with the right kit, and then using what you have to get the most out of them.

Nice post, RANN! Some very good tips and words of wisdom there.

Thank you, I really appreciate all of the people who comments here. quality comments.

ive tried googling to contact carrie skipper but still having problem to find her contact person/email =(

anyone can help me?

quote:

Originally posted by DreambreaX ive tried googling to contact carrie skipper but still having problem to find her contact person/email =( anyone can help me?

Try Facebook? Myspace?

I'll sing for you bro.

why not just contact tiff lacey and carrie skipper?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Just hire me as a singer. I guarantee that my vocals will give clubgoers an experience they will never forget!

The "worst track ever" has over 100 million views on YOutube...

Rebecca Black - Friday

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux The "worst track ever" has over 100 million views on YOutube... Rebecca Black - Friday

Yes but estimates are that she'll make less than $30k from sales when all said and done.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Yes but estimates are that she'll make less than $30k from sales when all said and done.

That's a lot more than I made when I was her age. Of course, average annual income back then was about $2000 and life expectancy was about 28 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux The "worst track ever" has over 100 million views on YOutube... Rebecca Black - Friday

That is horrible. That really is a bad song. I can only get through it 15 seconds, at a time.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik That's a lot more than I made when I was her age. Of course, average annual income back then was about $2000 and life expectancy was about 28 years.

Well, look on the bright side; at least you survived the meteor impact

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik That's a lot more than I made when I was her age. Of course, average annual income back then was about $2000 and life expectancy was about 28 years.

I bet pressurized water and electric lights still astound you every day.

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