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How do you feel about Ghost Producers?

Personally, it really angries me someone would take credit for someone else's work. I know DJ's who so call produce, but in reality they pay someone else to do the dirty work. However, they're good at marketing. So now they're touring all over, but they're not really doing the work, someone else is. That doesn't seem right to me.

I had a label approach me and told me they wanted to bring me up. They wanted to release tracks under my name. I told them that I felt my music sucked and that I wasn't comfortable releasing any work. Their response? Who cares! We'll have one of our producers make tracks for you! WTF? I quickly turned them down. That didn't seem right at all. It felt dirty and completely dishonest. I felt that if I took the offer I would be cheating my crowd and eventually one day it will all blow up in my face! I didn't even think about it twice.

good work, if i was playing out and they wanted to hear a tune my ghost producer made, id feel like a cheapskate playin, and that would totally ruin my set

its your wallet, you should have took that.

it is no different than 95% of popular music today...autotune, people don't write their own music, blatant sampling without credit or cleared samples and so on.

this isn't a new thing by any means, and i'm sure if you made a short list of your 10 fav djs, most if not all have been produced by others.

productions get you dj gigs. if a producer can't make that money because he can't dj, why not sell out his services?

If it gets more good music out there, what's the harm?

I only care about hearing good music. I don't care whose name is nominally attached to it. It doesn't tell me whether the person had a bunch of co-writers, or if they built the song entirely from a construction kit, or whatever. None of that matters to me when I'm enjoying a particular song.

However, you do need to be comfortable with whatever arrangement is in place - are you allowed to admit that you didn't write the tracks if people ask you? If you were allowed to say you use ghost producers but that your name is attached to the songs for the extra publicity, would you be comfortable with that?

If these producers would otherwise be struggling to release their songs due to their anonymity, I don't see it as a terrible thing. It'll be interesting to see what others think.

I think you shouldn't be comparing sampling to ghost writing. Look at Daft Punk, J-Dilla, Burial, and Todd Edwards. I know DP clears stuff, but I don't know about Dilla, Burial and Edwards. As an independent, you can't even clear stuff because of the money. It also takes skills to sample. Try buying a bunch of obscure records (because no everyone's already sampled the old ones everyone knows), and try making a song with just those.

Back on topic, well I don't know what to say about ghost producing. It's really competitive out there, and everyone needs money. I personally would not play out a song that was labelled as made by me. But if a so-called "producer" or dj wanted to pay me good money to make a song for them, I would do it in a heartbeat for good money. I don't mind not being in the spotlight, I do care about not being hungry if producing was my job.

I think it makes music better overall.

djs who use ghost producers should be ashamed, good music or bad music. there should be some type of respect along those lines.

Re: How do you feel about Ghost Producers?

quote:

Originally posted by DjWoody Personally, it really angries me someone would take credit for someone else's work. I know DJ's who so call produce, but in reality they pay someone else to do the dirty work. However, they're good at marketing. So now they're touring all over, but they're not really doing the work, someone else is. That doesn't seem right to me. I had a label approach me and told me they wanted to bring me up. They wanted to release tracks under my name. I told them that I felt my music sucked and that I wasn't comfortable releasing any work. Their response? Who cares! We'll have one of our producers make tracks for you! WTF? I quickly turned them down. That didn't seem right at all. It felt dirty and completely dishonest. I felt that if I took the offer I would be cheating my crowd and eventually one day it will all blow up in my face! I didn't even think about it twice.

you should been the executive producer!
A record producer is an individual working within the music industry, whose job it is to oversee and manage the recording (i.e. "production") of an artist's music. A producer has many roles that may include, but are not limited to, gathering ideas for the project, selecting songs and/or musicians, coaching the artist and musicians in the studio, controlling the recording sessions, and supervising the entire process through mixing and mastering. Producers also often take on a wider entrepreneurial role, with responsibility for the budget, schedules, and negotiations.

With today's relatively easy access to technology, an alternative to the record producer just mentioned, is the so called 'bedroom producer'. With today's technological advances, it is very easy for a producer to achieve high quality tracks without the use of a single instrument. It's surprising how many established artists take this approach and as the equipment required becomes more accessible, more and more producers will begin to take this route.

Today, the recording industry has two kinds of producers: executive producer and music producer; they have different roles. While an executive producer oversees a project's finances, a music producer oversees the creation of the music.

A music producer can, in some cases, be compared to a film director, with noted practitioner Phil Ek himself describing his role as "the person who creatively guides or directs the process of making a record, like a director would a movie. The engineer would be more the cameraman of the movie."[2] The music producer's job is to create, shape, and mold a piece of music. The scope of responsibility may be one or two songs or an artist's entire album � in which case the producer will typically develop an overall vision for the album and how the various songs may interrelate.

In the UK, before the rise of the record producer, someone from A&R would oversee the recording session(s), assuming responsibility for creative decisions relating to the recording.

Like a bunch of my favourite artist (names) are based around a ghost-producer. Well, it's kind of out there now but wasn't in the past.

I don't mind, it's the music that counts.

These type of deals can be very interesting if it helps you making some extra $ on both ends (producer and dj). Plug it could boost your profile immensely if done right.

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd djs who use ghost producers should be ashamed, good music or bad music. there should be some type of respect along those lines.

You. are. a stupid bastard.

Good music is good music regardless of how it got there. The more ghost writers the better. I was thinking of getting my degree in ghost writing actually. The way you view music YOU should be ashamed. And you sound like you're 16. Who gives a fuck? Some people prefer anonymity. Its that simple. And you think they should be ashamed? Did your mother start drinking when she found out she was pregnant? Oh and hows the mom doing anyway?

I guess it's all down to who deserves the credit.

Some people bring loads of ideas to the table and the producer just does the technical work. Others will only bring a minimal number of ideas to the table and the ghost producer will do the rest. Then there are some who literally just pay another producer to make a track for them then sell it off as their own.

In ALL of those cases, you could say the person paying is facilitating the track: in the first 2 cases, you can't categorically say the track would have been made in the same way (and hence as good) without the input from the person paying, and in the last case maybe the ghost producer wouldn't have had the motivation or the funding to buy new kit etc if they hadn't been paid.

In pop music, the singer nearly always gets credited as the artist, when they rarely write the song themselves. What's harder: writing a song, or singing/performing it? So who deserves the credit? Not obvious is it.


But even if someone deserves the credit, if they're happy not to get any credit, does it matter? The only stumbling block is that the listeners feel cheated if they find out they've been giving the wrong person praise for all this time.

Some producers would quite happily draw a parallel between this and some DJs getting almost worshipped for just playing a few records which other people made - surely the bulk of the talent was in making the records in the first place? (That isn't necessarily my view, I'm just playing devil's advocate a bit!)


Similarly, while DJs complain that promoters don't pay them, do they really deserve any money for turning up with a record collection and spending an hour or so on the decks... when the promoters have spent weeks planning the event, put hundreds or thousands of pounds into funding it, hours and hours on the street promoting it and selling all of the tickets?


There are so many places where we might give credit to the wrong people. Most of the time, the only people who care are their competitors who are jealous that someone can get credit for doing what they've been trying so hard to do themselves, just by paying someone else to do it.

And it happens in every walk of life.

You should have took up the offer!! It would help your profile, get you work as a dj and maybe you could spend time in the studio with this ghost producer and learn alot in a short time.

Its win win for all parties involved, I get what your saying about how you feel, but yeah who really cares?? The majority of the dance floor wouldn't give a shit or be none the wiser! Woody you need to think of no1 because no one else will, and at the end of the day it dont have to always be like that, you can move on to other labels when your good enough with your own material.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 you can move on to other labels when your good enough with your own material.

In the meantime, if people ask for tips, you can say "I don't share my production secrets". Heh.

i have done 'ghost writing' in the past. I normally call it engineering. A DJ/Producer comes to me with ideas which I make a reality using equipment that they dont have the time or inclination to learn. A good producer of tracks will be able to create their own sound using different engineers - this is definitly a good thing. what annoys me is when people turn up and expect me to just write a track and give it to them at the end without any input at all...

so to the OP - if i were you I would have gone for it - you get the opportunity to put your name out there and you would hopefully be able to create a track that you feel is your own - you write the riffs, decide if you want side chaining etc etc.

the engineer is a tool for your creativity - its not cheating

quote:

Originally posted by derail In the meantime, if people ask for tips, you can say "I don't share my production secrets". Heh.

Exactly


As studiobob says, if your having input to the actual track and calling the shots, you can call it your own. I have loads of ideas for tracks in my head, but I dont have all the skills to put them down to the exact way I want it. Im sure your the same, but in that situation, you could bring examples to the studio of other tracks you like or little sounds in them you like, and the producer could help bring your ideas to life.


If its not too late, Id call them back and tell them you've changed your mind. It can only benefit you.

Fantastic comments from Stu Cox there - i think most of what he said was poignant and really hit the nail on the head!

My own personal opinion is that even though i am a huge lover of dance music and extremely passionate about it - i couldn't give a fuck who produces a certain track, and whether they try and make it look like someone else's.

All i care about is that good music is being produced by someone, somewhere.

This all comes down to one simple thing for me: if you are a producer or DJ, what do you care more about - money, or artistic integrity and pride in what you do (or claim to do!).

So there is no right or wrong answer - some people will be happy to release music under their name when they haven't actually produced the track, some producers will be happy to give someone else the credit for their work. Everyone's different and everyone wants different things out of life - some people want to be famous, some people are shy and don't like being in the public light!

This is a reflection of the society that we live in nowadays - increasingly, all that seems to matter to people is trying to get famous, have lots of money, and lead a really material existence!

It would be nice if people starting doing more stuff just purely for the love of it, instead of worrying about fame and money.

But i don't let this state of affairs bother me - as long as i can do what i want and have my own set of principles in relation to this, i really couldn't give a fuck what anyone else does!

So just do your own thing and do what feels right to you.

Hopefully then you will be happy with whatever you decide to do!

as a producer it bothers me since im doing everything myself from scratch. as a music lover idc if the awesome tracks are made, let the people be known atleast.

MINDBLOWING QUESTION

would you let someone paint for you then put your name on the painting?

Putting your name on a work you bought is illegal (breach of intellectual property rights) unless you've got a contract that allows you to do so. As the creator is the key to solving that problem the question should be asked the other way around: Would you let someone else put his name on your painting?

Answer: yes, if it pays good money, I would.

every man has his price. my price is/are? prostitutes.

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ MINDBLOWING QUESTION would you let someone paint for you then put your name on the painting?

if i told them what to paint, what colour to paint it and paid them to do it for me because i'm too busy to learn how to become a professional painter then yes i would.

I'd rather be on the giving end than the receiving end to be honest. Talking about ghost producing here of course. Non homosexual prostitution.... Perhaps

reach-arounds ftw

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...d=&pagenumber=9

reading a few pages of this thread is funny.

I've ghost-written (i.e., composed) and have been a silent co-producer on songs for others, but it's usually a different set of circumstances. It usually involves someone that I know and work with on a personal level, or an up-and-coming producer with a lot of potential that I want to help out, etc. I prefer to stay anonymous in those situations and let the others get the attention (and money, if there is any) that they deserve for their talents. Then again, I'm old and I've had my 15 minutes of fame.

But, if a DJ asked me to ghost-produce a song for him and that he would take the credit for it, I'd tell him in no uncertain terms where he can firmly shove it. Those guys are idiots and, contrary to some of the comments made here, DJs taking credit for other producers' works is not improving the quality of music - it's just changing who gets the credit and exposing these loser DJs for the pathetic, talentless hacks that they are. To be clear, I'm not referring to all DJs, only the ones who are so insecure that they need to pay someone else for their work and take credit for it just to give themselves an ego boost. I can respect guys who just DJ and don't try to take credit for anything other than their DJ skills and I can really respect guys who DJ and produce/co-produce their tracks.

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