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Does anybody here do live shows?
Does anyone here do live gigs? Can't recall seeing a thread dedicated to it, and the search yielded no result.
As producers, I think we all can agree on the fact that we are the soul of the EDM scene and that DJ's are nothing more than posers with pitch slides, and it is time we take back the arena that is rightfully ours.
So, anybody got any stories they wanna share? We need more info before we can mobilize the forces.
Lately I've been "practicing" performing my music in a live format, and I must say I do enjoy it, however I'm in need of more equipment before I am ready :P
I've done a fair amount of performances in the contemporary-classical, electroacoustic, and experimental (all pretty 'arty') side of things, and I've also done a bit of DJing, but not so much in between. I'm currently working with my collaborator on developing a more 'live' approach to playing out rather than just DJing (both by using existing solutions, and doing our own interface development/light-level programming, often with Max/MSP). Obviously there are a lot of inherent problems with 'laptop' performance, but we've been developing methods around it.
On the subject of electronic performance and that, do you guys find most laptop performers a bit dull? Its still a new art compared to the likes of acoustic instruments, which have obvious (social and physical) gestural connotations (i.e. we're more happy to accept them as creative devices) whereas laptops (and the like) are associated with many more purposes than 'just' musical practice (most commonly perhaps, internet/facebook/email/whatever), so a limp performer+laptop can often equal a drab performance which may leave the audience questioning whether or not they were simply browsing the web, having pressed play on itunes earlier!
I guess that was a deviation from the subject matter...
Re: Does anybody here do live shows?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dj_alfi Does anyone here do live gigs? Can't recall seeing a thread dedicated to it, and the search yielded no result. As producers, I think we all can agree on the fact that we are the soul of the EDM scene and that DJ's are nothing more than posers with pitch slides, and it is time we take back the arena that is rightfully ours. So, anybody got any stories they wanna share? We need more info before we can mobilize the forces. Lately I've been "practicing" performing my music in a live format, and I must say I do enjoy it, however I'm in need of more equipment before I am ready :P |
i've done a live setup but only when i was wearing a guitar.
Re: Does anybody here do live shows?
I've played live shows with guitars and vocals, I've played live electronic shows integrated into my DJ sets.
Equipment and simplicity is the key. I don't think that anyone will ever work out a good show wiht only their own tracks though, surgeon does combined DJ/live shows, and it works so, so well.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by dj_alfi As producers, I think we all can agree on the fact that we are the soul of the EDM scene and that DJ's are nothing more than posers with pitch slides, and it is time we take back the arena that is rightfully ours. |
Re: Re: Does anybody here do live shows?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by kitphillips Did you not see the spate of threads all about how daft this attitude is??? Just because you can't DJ doesn't mean you should assume that all producers have your biases, actually, some of us do both. I mean, you were probably joking, but considering the number of people around here who actually think this... well |
I believe there are two different kind of DJs now.
One being the original DJ that can entertain a crowd for hours, specialised in playing the right tracks at the right time (you can really make or break a track depending on when in your set you play it!). They have a large selection of tracks and decide which tracks from their box they will play and in what order at the gig while performing.
The second is the producer DJ. Usually started out producing and then went to perform live as they got name. They spin primarily their own tracks and a few others they really like. They often create a setlist in advance, having the tracks lined up and ready to get played in a prepared order.
The second kind might do more live stuff during the set, but a full live performance would be a third kind, which I wouldn't really call a DJ but an electronic music artist/performer. But often still called DJs because that's easier and the outside world often doesn't really get it anyway.
Nothing is this black and white ofcourse, but this is generally how I see it. Anyone agree or disagree with this point of view?
I've been thinking about doing full live performances, but I'm still not sure how to make that more interesting than regular DJing.
By the way, whatever tools you use doesn't really matter. I've performed on both a laptop with Serato ITCH and with the new CDJ2000s and I really don't see a lot of difference if it comes to regular DJing. Screen is bigger on laptop, that's about it. Ofcourse it is different from the vinyl days. I like it better now, the endless beatmatching got a bit annoying after a few years.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Richard v W I like it better now, the endless beatmatching got a bit annoying after a few years. |
I've done a handful of small backyard gigs, nothing special. What shits me the most is that no matter how well you play, unless you play a guitar or drums then you're "just a DJ".
| quote: |
| Originally posted by aquila I've done a handful of small backyard gigs, nothing special. What shits me the most is that no matter how well you play, unless you play a guitar or drums then you're "just a DJ". |
Well, haven't before but looking to do so very soon, although first we have to get all of our tracks completed. I have respect for DJ's totally but kind of want to showcase music that we made, not just mix other peoples music. And yeah I could see where it would be frustrating having people think you're dj'ing when essentially you're not.
But then again, it isn't as entertaining watching a couple guys on stage tweaking knobs as it is watching a band perform live, at l east for anyone who isn't totally into electronic music and even still. We are talking about incorporating some live musicians but our songs are all over the place, and some songs i couldn't see anyone really doing much anything live to. Not even sure how a set would work, my partner seems to think that it would be a good idea from going to trip hop to progressive to dubstep to breaks all in a hour long set but i feel like it might be pushing it... trying to be open minded about it, but i think it's gonna turn people off. I guess i have more of a dj set/live act in mind where he just wants to showcase our versatility which i'm all about but at the same time, would it work live? seem like artists that are versatile still keep a general theme when they are doing a live set.
DJ sets work because they can blend into the background, just leaving you with the music (it's when they try to be the foreground that things start to go wrong IMO). They also work because they're flexible: if the crowd isn't feeling it, you can play something else.
The problem is, the more live elements you add, the more the crowd feel they have to watch... and EDM doesn't *usually* look very exciting when performed live, so you end up with a load of people just standing there staring instead of dancing.
Of course live acts can work: Chemical Brothers, Royksopp, The Prodigy,... all these people do great live shows, but they only work on a stage, not in a DJ booth.
There's a surprisingly sudden dividing line between a DJ set and a live act - not in terms of what you're actually doing, but how it's presented - and that completely changes the atmosphere.
I'm not saying don't do it - just don't become another person who plasters "LIVE" all over the flyers then turns up with a couple of MIDI controllers and spends their whole set staring at a Macbook screen while twiddling a few knobs.
So my advice would be to think about where you're performing and whether a live set really suits it... or vice versa: think about the kind of venues your live set will work in.
If you're playing in a club in a DJ booth, make sure your set doesn't lose the benefits that a DJ set has and if you're on a stage, own it.
I think the trick is to blend real instruments with the electronic backbone, but that means getting away from 'EDM'. If you're playing 4/4 dance music just be a DJ. If you want to get a live show together the music has to be a bit different I think. It should be anyway.
So to mix it up you can get a real bass player, or a percussionist maybe but keep the main kick snare and hats to the synths so it still has that rigid electronic feel to it. You can even get a guitar player with a coke addiction and an effects rack to give the crowd something to focus on while you stare at the mbp and twiddle knobs, because realistically there's not a ton you can do besides hit play on the sequencer and sit back.
But you can compensate for how boring it is generally. Get a projector and run kickass psychedelic video while you play. Get a vocalist, anything. People crave that human connection and vulnerability of a real performance. The trick is getting the crowd to treat the experience as more of a band dynamic than a dj dynamic. What I mean by that is crowds are spoiled by DJs because they are whores and play whatever the people want. They're expected to keep it fresh by playing new stuff constantly. Bands for instance don't write a whole new record every time they play out, that would be ridiculous. So a live electronic act would have to keep it fresh some other way if you end up playing for the same people and not land a nationwide tour immediately where you're playing to a different audience every night.
I drank too much coffee
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Stu Cox DJ sets work because they can blend into the background, just leaving you with the music (it's when they try to be the foreground that things start to go wrong IMO). They also work because they're flexible: if the crowd isn't feeling it, you can play something else. The problem is, the more live elements you add, the more the crowd feel they have to watch... and EDM doesn't *usually* look very exciting when performed live, so you end up with a load of people just standing there staring instead of dancing. Of course live acts can work: Chemical Brothers, Royksopp, The Prodigy,... all these people do great live shows, but they only work on a stage, not in a DJ booth. There's a surprisingly sudden dividing line between a DJ set and a live act - not in terms of what you're actually doing, but how it's presented - and that completely changes the atmosphere. I'm not saying don't do it - just don't become another person who plasters "LIVE" all over the flyers then turns up with a couple of MIDI controllers and spends their whole set staring at a Macbook screen while twiddling a few knobs. So my advice would be to think about where you're performing and whether a live set really suits it... or vice versa: think about the kind of venues your live set will work in. If you're playing in a club in a DJ booth, make sure your set doesn't lose the benefits that a DJ set has and if you're on a stage, own it. |
Re: Does anybody here do live shows?
@djalfi, please remake Sandwiches 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Richard v W I believe there are two different kind of DJs now. One being the original DJ that can entertain a crowd for hours, specialised in playing the right tracks at the right time (you can really make or break a track depending on when in your set you play it!). They have a large selection of tracks and decide which tracks from their box they will play and in what order at the gig while performing. The second is the producer DJ. Usually started out producing and then went to perform live as they got name. They spin primarily their own tracks and a few others they really like. They often create a setlist in advance, having the tracks lined up and ready to get played in a prepared order. The second kind might do more live stuff during the set, but a full live performance would be a third kind, which I wouldn't really call a DJ but an electronic music artist/performer. But often still called DJs because that's easier and the outside world often doesn't really get it anyway. Nothing is this black and white ofcourse, but this is generally how I see it. Anyone agree or disagree with this point of view? I've been thinking about doing full live performances, but I'm still not sure how to make that more interesting than regular DJing. |
I'll be doing my first live pa in 3 weeks. This video helped me a lot and gave me a lot of ideas to work with. I would recommend checking it out if you haven't already:
http://vimeo.com/1701545
Re: Re: Does anybody here do live shows?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Luke Terry @djalfi, please remake Sandwiches |
Re: Re: Does anybody here do live shows?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by kitphillips Did you not see the spate of threads all about how daft this attitude is??? Just because you can't DJ doesn't mean you should assume that all producers have your biases, actually, some of us do both. I mean, you were probably joking, but considering the number of people around here who actually think this... well |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnus I'll be doing my first live pa in 3 weeks. This video helped me a lot and gave me a lot of ideas to work with. I would recommend checking it out if you haven't already: http://vimeo.com/1701545 |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Magnus I'll be doing my first live pa in 3 weeks. This video helped me a lot and gave me a lot of ideas to work with. I would recommend checking it out if you haven't already: http://vimeo.com/1701545 |
what's a good soundcard for playing live? I want to play my novation launchpad with almost no latency.
I used to do a lot of live shows on the hard dance circuit. Right from the start I wanted to make sure it was as live as it possibly could be and not just shaking my head behind a stack of keyboards that weren't even plugged in while the music came off DAT like many of the "live" acts used to do! The shows were called A.L.I.V.E and I ran them from 2006-2009. There was myself plus I had a turntablist for scratching, a guitar player and a singer. We played most of the big arena hard dance events at the time and for the most part it was a lot of fun!
I used Ableton for the shows with 1 short controller keyboard with loads of midi sliders/buttons, one long midi controller keyboard, a drum pad trigger, a small Mackie mixer and an external soundcard. Because of the space needed we had to have stage space, we couldn't do it form a DJ booth.
The tracks we did were a combination of my original material plus remixes of all sorts of genres.
With each track I'd break it all down into 8 bar loops and then separate it into component parts spread over 8 channels. I used a combination of WAVs and midi parts playing VSTs. Typically the channels were 1.kick, 2. snare and hats, 3. percussion, 4. bass, 5. synth parts 1, 6. synth parts 2, 7. FX, 8. others/spare. Each loop was bounced out of Logic at the required level so the faders in Ableton could remain at 0db.
I would then arrange the parts in scenes. Each time there needed to be a new part of the song I'd move the play bar down to next scene. For parts that were longer than 8 bars, for example with 16 bar riff patterns, I'd simply let it play the full 16 bars before moving on to the next scene or loop it again if there was plenty of laser reaching going on! The whole set was pre determined in terms of the order of the songs but if I wanted to I could easily jump back and forth to different scenes depending on crowd reaction (I had 2 control keys on one of the keyboards assigned to scene up/down) All the keyboard keys were labelled for functionality and I never used the mouse during a set!
Each of the 8 channels had FX on that were controlled from one of the controller keyboards (delays, filters, manglers etc) plus I had a whole heap of things that I used to trigger from different keys on one of the controllers (drum rolls, kick rolls, build ups, perc loops, extra hat loops, SFX etc) I also had a mute/un-mute function assigned to each channel so that I could drop parts if needed.
Working this way was a lot of fun. I had lots of scope in terms of playing with a song's arrangement, bringing parts in and out, dropping the kick and adding a drum roll, building tracks up, taking them down, adding the synth line or FX from one track to another, twisting an individual part with the FX .......it was far more involving than just mixing two records into each other and far more interactive with the crowd.
Occasionally I used to play musical parts live but this was normally pads or slow riffs. Playing 1/16 pace riffs at 148bpm in a hot sweaty club aint gonna happen!
The singer, scratcher and guitarist used to feature on about 30% of the material. Having the guitarist play the lead line on an Adagio For Strings remix was always a winner!!
There were problems though, the laptop crashed a couple of times mid set and it's hard to get a live set like that to sound as punchy as records, no matter what processing you have on the master out inserts. It also used to take up a lot of time prepping, normally a couple of days for a 1 hour set!
I well recommend it though, personally I found it more fun than DJing and you can get away with more than you can in a DJ set.
triggering loops from live isn't what I would call playing live. Dj sets with live as a tool is as live as you are going to get unless you become a musician and find about 5 other musicians. UNlikely.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by psymon.d I've done a fair amount of performances in the contemporary-classical, electroacoustic, and experimental |
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