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-- How do they keep the beats in sync?
How do they keep the beats in sync?
I've been djyin for months....and I would like to figure out how the top djz manage to keep the beats perfectly in sync when their cue point (on the incoming track) starts more than 32 beats before the 'transition' point. Can this only be done on turntables...or can it be done on cd players?
Can be done on any media that has variable pitch/tempo.
It's just a matter of practice, and listening. With enough practice, you'll hear the beats drifting away before anyone else notices, giving you the ability to adjust things again before it really trainwrecks. You really shouldn't need more than a couple of beats to get a rough match, and then adjusting on the fly, fast enough so nobody notices anything.
Does this include techniques like nudging and/or any other minor scratching techniques?
yes
it helps LOTS if youve got a good set of decks ie direct drives! cos they will hold the pitch alot better than the cheaper kinds of decks!
Keep in mind that most pro dj's(aside from having years of practice) most usually have a bpm counter on the mixer they are using. I've never used one, but I'm sure this helps a tiny bit.
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| Originally posted by mikefasssy Keep in mind that most pro dj's(aside from having years of practice) most usually have a bpm counter on the mixer they are using. I've never used one, but I'm sure this helps a tiny bit. |
I've tried the beatcounters on the pioneermixers and i must say that they are a bit inaccurate
If i find myself at a mixer with a bpm counter i just use it as an indication now and then if i really can't hear if the song is to slow or to fast
and to the main subject.....just start out somewhere where the pitch is almost in sync and then pitch up and down up and down to keep it in the right tempo ....if your'e good at this the crowd won't notice it at all 
what i do is.....try to get the track matched up as good as possible.....and if necessary adjust when its live (im getting good at this and am finding im having to do this less and less 
)
| quote: |
| Originally posted by mikefasssy Keep in mind that most pro dj's(aside from having years of practice) most usually have a bpm counter on the mixer they are using. I've never used one, but I'm sure this helps a tiny bit. |
i try to match it up as close as possible, and then if it needs any adjusting, i either put a little pressure on the vinyl to make it slow down a little, or move it forward back onto beat, but usually this is only necessary 1 or 2 times in teh trasnfer
No Pros use Beat Counters, they don't work.
Get the next vinyl on the wheel ASAP.Throw the Cue Song in at the transition point of the song playing. You have to count 4/4 and know the composure of each song. Fight the headphone song buy speeding up or slowing down the platter(personal preference on how to do so) and changing the speed(Beat Match)Once you think you got it, turn down the phones but keep the Cue song spinning. Do NOT concentrate on the Cue song!!! Listen to whats playing up front and turn the phones volume up on ocassion to see if they are matched. If not, fine tune the pitch so it is.
Rememmber if you throw the cue song when beatmatching in at the proper transition point the songs will change at the right time making it totally obvious if you are too slow or too fast.
Where you throw the song in is up to you, BUT REMEMBER Count the song playing!! Songs beat matched together but change at the wrong time is still a wreck to the people that know. You may have fooled 90% of the crowd, but you didn't fool yourself or other DJ's
Ok then, I just thought the reason they had bpm counters was to help, seems strange if they make them if they don't work.
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| Even if there was a perfectly accurate BPM counter out there, any self-respecting DJ will not use it because he or she does not need it at all. You can beatmatch a lot better with your ears alone. *In fact*, it is so much easier and better to beatmatch with your ears only, that I think it would be much more cumbersome to rely on any counters. |
bpm counters are not good, they should only be used as a last resort when you are so frustruated that you can't match a beat, and even at that point u realy shouldn't use it.. my friend's djm600 has the bpm counter and he has become really accustomed to using it to the point where he relies on it now (he used to be a really good beatmatcher before the bpm counter came into play) so now when he uses any other mixer w/ no bpm counter, he sucks.. it will ruin your skills if u become reliant upon it.. so my advice, don't use it.. keeping the beats in sync is all a matter of practice and good listening, if u have the records beatmatched as best you think you can, and one starts to get outta sync, just adjust it (drag ur finger on the bumps on the side of the platter to slow it down, or I speed it up by twisting the little silver tab that goes through the hole in the vinyl or i just move the vinyl itself by pushing it along on the label so i don't get finger prints in the grooves), only time i really touch the grooves is when im cueing, anyhow, if u don't practice listening and use the bpm counter, u'll freak out when u don't have a bpm counter.
Besides, your ears are actually hugely more accurate than a BPM counter. Most show the BPM to the nearest beat (Many that show decimals aren't actually that accurate - they're just bluffing), so your two records could be up to a whole BPM out, even though the readout is the same. A DJ's ears (though maybe not the crowds) can tell fairly easily if the beats are about 10ms out, so you'll constantly be having to babysit the record if you use the BPM counter. If you want to do a long mix for say, 2 minutes, and only touch the record once or twice, then the only way is to use your ears.
the new numark TTX's have BPM counters on a nifty little display, I wonder how accurate they are 
proll on the same level as most mixer BPM units *shrug*
You can train your ear to listen for soon-to-be off beats. I memorize the sound of the matched beat and listen to see if the next beat produces the same sound. If it�s off, I can hear it and make my adjustments. I suggest using only pitch adjustment because it�s the most accurate and precise of all the methods. A person can hypothetically touch the platter too hard and distort the track. Since it�s a major pitch control adjustment, the change is inaudible. I only touch the platter or record to make major adjustments, typically used in conjunction with pure pitch adjustment.
Are there any good articles or tips on how to match bpm fast? I like to improve the speed of my bpm.
I think that BPM counters aren't such a bad thing as people make them out to be. Of course you have to be able to beat match without the BPM to be a decent/good dj. I use the counter to adjust the BPM to APPROXIMATELY the same BPM and then fine tune it using my ear. I can save about 30seconds or more sometimes using the BPM and fine tuning vs. not using the BPM at all. It isn't a skillz contest, it's not a spin-off, when I spin I spin for me and the crowd and they don't care if I use a BPM or not. When I have that extra 30-60 seconds, I use that time for other effects like teasers (which you need to have the tracks beatmatched for) etc. It shouldn't matter what aides you use to get you to the final product if you know how to use those aides accurately and don't need to depend on them to help you mix.
^^^ Dj Flesch, I agree with you in that whatever floats your boat, is what you should be doing.
I just want to say that if you keep practicing beatmatching by just using your ears, you *will* eventually get to the point where you won't want to use anything else because you won't need to! On average I can get two tracks beatmatched to a 1/4 of a bpm within 5-10 seconds *at most*, and after that I leave it going for a phrase or two to make sure it's perfectly beatmatched. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, you can always make little adjustments as you bring in your cued track. Now if I was to use a bpm counter on the other hand, it would slow me down considerably. Another thing: the counter on my mixer is very shaky, for example it will be registering "130" then all of a sudden jump to "150" for no reason! Then go back down to "125" or something. I don't like it at all. But maybe the counter on my mixer is extra shitty. Anyway back to the point.
Another thing that really affects the speed of your beatmatching is your monitor set-up. If you can't hear both channels clearly then it will obviously take more time to beatmatch.
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| mikefasssy I agree, it is way more fun to use your ears, but you can't beatmatch as accurately with them. Thats like saying that humans can think faster than computers. (not saying that bpm counters are the best) just saying that with the technology we have, someone could make a program/mixer that automatically aligns tracks etc to the billionth degree of accurracy. But that defeat the purpose, so I'll shutup now. |
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| Originally posted by UltimaGT the new numark TTX's have BPM counters on a nifty little display, I wonder how accurate they are proll on the same level as most mixer BPM units *shrug* |
I used to have the same problem...I couldn't keep beats together for over 16 beats...So I started doing a set everyday...and over time I just got better...Right now I'm @ 128 beats...but I'm not as consistant as I wanna be...Don't move the pitch really fast. Only nudge it along...
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| Originally posted by Alccode But as far as beatmatching is concerned, this is inaccurate because there is no hardware (or software for that matter) that can beatmatch as accurate as a human can. The algorithm can never be 100% perfect in determining where the "beat" actually is - it's always a little off for some reason (which I've found to be true from experience). So right now computers are fairly useless for beatmatching. But eventually they probably will be able to do it just as good as humans. I must say, though, that Traktor (mixing software for PC) has a fairly accurate bpm counter. But it still isn't perfect, and I would never trust something like that when I could do it better instead. |
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