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John 00 Fleming and DJmag Poll thoughts

https://www.facebook.com/notes/john...204533816262256

quote:

I think everyone knows my thoughts on this poll now. Clued up people know how the DJ poll game works, and no matter how much ranting I/we do, most of the general public wont get/see it. They just see their hero�s as the best in the World. So I�ve come to terms with the fact it�s here to stay. There�s no doubt this poll is a big deal. It can make or break careers. Some of today�s superstar DJ�s have forged very successful careers off the back of this very poll, and is the reason they fight so hard each and every year to stay in it. Without their number, history shows they can disappear. Why? Because they had no other substance behind them. No strong productions. No strong residencies/DJ skills. No strong mix compilations. No contributions to the scene. They only play the marketing and poll game. No More rants: No doubt everyone reading this is gearing up towards a Fleming rant against the poll�don�t worry you can relax this will be a positive blog. I�m living proof you don�t need the poll to have a successful DJ career. I kinda break all the rules in today�s production focused World, because I always put myself as a DJ first. Yet I�m at the height of my career without a poll number and not production led. I focus all my energy into making myself the best DJ I can possibly be. Still 25 years later, I spend hours practicing sets. I dedicate at least two days a week searching through shops to find music. I still get that buzz finding a new track. That�s the key for me, the music always comes first; not me. I�m just the bloke who shares the music with likewise people on the dance floor A common question I get asked when being interviewed: what are your next goals? I�ve pretty much done everything. I�ve played all major festivals and clubs around the World�and still do! I�ve made a whole load of mix compilations. I�ve remixed some of my favourite bands, I�m making music for the movie and TV World and recently made my first debut solo album... So what are my next goals? I have absolutely no ambition to be famous or a pop star. I don�t want to be number 1 DJ of the World. I�m actually uncomfortable with fame and the new social network World. It�s taken me years to open up and speak more on Facebook etc. So have I achieved everything? No. History: The best times of my whole career where in the mid/late 90�s early 2000. I held residencies at some of the best clubs I�ve ever played in my whole career. Zap Club, Sunnyside up, Trade, Chunnel club, Golden, Leisure lounge, Cloud 9 and more. I�m actually getting tearful as I write the names of these clubs as wonderful memories come flooding back. These underground clubs are where my heart belongs. They are the roots to the John 00 Fleming you know today. These are the clubs I played on a weekly basis alongside fellow music lovers. The fellow resident DJ�s around me were more than just colleagues, they were like family. We had such a strong bond that fuelled onto the extended family on the dance floor. The same was happening around the World with each localised community. We would create our own anthems that only the locals would know and respond to. Drop that track and the whole place would unite and go crazy, because it was our own home bread anthem. The local DJ�s created their own unique sounds. We saw Detroit Techno. Chicago House. Tribal sounds of New York (Twilo days) in the UK we had the Progressive sounds of the North, while London offered harder edged Trance. Antwerp, Berlin, Tel Aviv, and Stockholm�all cities around the World offered their own unique sounds that were built from locals working closely together. If we skip forward to today, all the localised underground scenes have gone. This saddens me. We have an unprecedented amount of local talented DJ�s and producers out there who should be playing gigs on a weekly basis. These guys should be injecting a new lease of life into the electronic world, again making localised scenes with innovating sounds and ideas pushing things forward. Instead we get force fed what we should be listening to, instead of getting a taste for it. All I see in today�s World are competitive DJ�s desperate for fame. Once a year they beg for votes in order to show the World they are better than others, in return they increase their fees thus the rising door and ticket costs of festivals and clubs. I don�t see these guys putting anything back into clubland? It�s all about them and building their own brands, sucking the life out of territories then moving on the next one that has a bigger cheque book. That poll number is a very important tool, because it also attracts sponsors. Mr corporate company doesn�t have a clue about any DJ�s, but they will release a load of money to a �number�. The power of this number also has the same effect in the media World with most magazines only supporting the stars. I see this first hand with myself. Many of you have seen, I�m desperate to help rebuild and support these aforementioned localised communities, but often feel I�m hitting my head on a brick wall trying to get sponsors and media to support. They wont listen unless I can throw �numbers� at them. I�m super lucky because, as I mentioned earlier, I have a solid strong career behind me with a solid fans base, so don�t care about having a number behind me. I don�t need it. But it�s not about me. I care about the next generation of DJ�s and producers who should be the driving force for the next generation. As things stand that infrastructure isn�t in place or even supported. Helping: So it looks like I do have one more goal in my career, I want to help rebuild the specialist scene. Over the past decade I�ve been writing none stop blogs with advice to help new DJ�s, producers and promoters. But it seems Words are not enough and it�s time to roll my sleeves up and get fully active. If we look back, DJ�s set some of the greatest scenes/clubs up frustrated that there was no specialist places/events for them to DJ or party. Richie Hawton�s Plasticman events in Detroit, Danny Rampling�s Shoom in London, John Digweed�s Bedrock in the UK, the list is endless. I played my part with my nights at the Manor and Sterns in the UK. I think we�re at this very same point, I truly believe in these historic cycles that repeat themselves and it�s now time to happen again. Difference back then, the media supported genuine good talent and events, today they only support a �number�. We also don�t have the specialist media infrastructure in place supporting this specialist scene. It�s not just clubs I want help, it�s the infrastructure as a whole. I want to help start online magazines, forums, communities for likewise clubbers and music lovers. I need to get shops to start listening and supporting specialist producers and offering a dedicated place to sell specialist music. Magazines need to offer dedicated pages to support specialist producers. Once this support is seen for the specialist market, it will unlock club/promoters brains and show them that there is another way to fill their clubs. It�s a lot of work needed by a lot of people. I need a big team of people and support (I�ll be looking to you lot to get involved and help, possible jobs too), but if I turn to sponsors for investment they will want to see that dreaded �number�? The Poll: So for the first time in many years I�ve thought about hitting hard to get myself back in the poll to get a �number� in order to make these things happen. This is NOT for me, but for a tool in order for me to get people to listen in order to make these things happen to get sponsors etc. In a way, it�s a kind of manifesto and I�m a Trance conservationist. The day I leave this planet, I want people to look back my career, not to say John 00 Fleming was the best DJ, the best producer or a Superstar, but to be proud of my contribution and dedication to the scene that I truly love. I�ve dedicated my whole working life to it so far. Being apart of the next specialist cycle of the Trance scene will be the panicle of my career. If at any point people think I want to get in this poll for myself, then I�ll back out and try another way. I was in the Poll for a good seven years (until I rebelled) so I know the difference it makes when it comes to the media listening, so I have to give this another shot. So now I ask you all, is this a good thing and will you support? Or do I try another way?

It's an interesting read, to me however, I can't understand how this magazine has such an influence. I mean, how come this poll in particular gets so much more attention than any other useless poll?

God what a pretentious cock. Oh I'm not going to rant negatively against the DJ poll, I'm just going to rant positively about why I'm above all that.

haha, so he rambles on for tl:dr how insignificant and shitty the thing is just to ask his fans to vote for him in the last paragraph, but not for personal motives - "to make a statement".

bizzarre

i love J00F rants but he lost me when associated Tribal with TWILO

Hi Guys and girls,

I thought I'd pop in here before the topic goes bad.
I need to clear this up, I'm not after votes to become a superstar, but to gain support for me investing back into the more specialist scene.

If you feel I'm after a poll number for my personal gain, then as I have done for the past few years, I'll ask people NOT to vote for me.

I found that a very good read. Much better than the spam of VOTE FOR ME PLZ that will soon flood all social networks. Not to mention DJs hiring advertising teams and people to vote for them.

Broken ass system.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 God what a pretentious cock. Oh I'm not going to rant negatively against the DJ poll, I'm just going to rant positively about why I'm above all that.

Did anyone asked you to post in this thread you troll?

I loved his tune JAWA. With that said, J00F needs to lighten up a bit. Negativity doesn't have a place in this highly competitive scene. I advise choosing positive vibes and a bright outlook.

If J00F really doesn't like the DJ Mag poll he should just not talk about it at all. He's giving it credit by blasting its name out there and coming off as a very jealous DJ. Not good when you want to attract more fans.

That's my two cents.

before you judge, you must realize its hard for us to put ourselves in his shoes, what hes seen around him for the long time hes been doing his thing. He is not the only dj fed up with this, and if anyone was to lead a movement like this, who better to lead? I love j00f's attitude, and i will definitely support him when hes in town because those dj mag anthem monkeys do not deserve my support.

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ before you judge, you must realize its hard for us to put ourselves in his shoes, what hes seen around him for the long time hes been doing his thing. He is not the only dj fed up with this, and if anyone was to lead a movement like this, who better to lead? I love j00f's attitude, and i will definitely support him when hes in town because those dj mag anthem monkeys do not deserve my support.

This sounds like a bunch of QQ

You don't get ahead by being pathetic and whining

Just stick to producing and putting on good shows. Fuck the politics.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Did anyone asked you to post in this thread you troll?

Nope. Does anybody ever ask you to post in any thread you moron?

Whether he's on the list or not he's still an incredibly popular trance act, so trying to pump up his poll numbers like it's going to send some kind of message and promote the "anti-DJ poll super totally underground trance movement" is pretty silly.

I don't understand what "movement" is trying to get started here. People are going to love how he plays regardless of whether he's in the DJ Mag poll or not, as evidenced by how he remains very popular despite not commanding a high post on the poll. He's trying to gain votes on the poll to spread some message that the poll should be obsolete and that the kind of music he plays should become more popular, which I just don't see that little stunt accomplishing at all. Besides, the kinds of people whose attention it would draw are probably the same types of people who destroy the "scene" he works so hard to uphold.

I like his music, and his sets are always great, but this whole "scene" activism thing seems a little "look at me"ish.

quote:

Originally posted by John 00 Fleming Hi Guys and girls, I thought I'd pop in here before the topic goes bad. I need to clear this up, I'm not after votes to become a superstar, but to gain support for me investing back into the more specialist scene. If you feel I'm after a poll number for my personal gain, then as I have done for the past few years, I'll ask people NOT to vote for me.

Clear as mud J00F.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Nope. Does anybody ever ask you to post in any thread you moron? Whether he's on the list or not he's still an incredibly popular trance act, so trying to pump up his poll numbers like it's going to send some kind of message and promote the "anti-DJ poll super totally underground trance movement" is pretty silly. I don't understand what "movement" is trying to get started here. People are going to love how he plays regardless of whether he's in the DJ Mag poll or not, as evidenced by how he remains very popular despite not commanding a high post on the poll. He's trying to gain votes on the poll to spread some message that the poll should be obsolete and that the kind of music he plays should become more popular, which I just don't see that little stunt accomplishing at all. Besides, the kinds of people whose attention it would draw are probably the same types of people who destroy the "scene" he works so hard to uphold. I like his music, and his sets are always great, but this whole "scene" activism thing seems a little "look at me"ish.

I'm no activist and don't appreciate being called names when you don't know me and the passion I believe in.

You see, I grew up with a scene that supported talented unknown DJ's, this scene was plentiful of specialist clubs for them to all play on a weekly basis. I have that very scene to be thankful too that launched mine and many others careers.
In todays World this infrastructure is not in place and this is something I want to help create for all the talented up and coming DJ's out there, maybe you should read the blog before speaking out.

I have nothing against DJ Magazine, I have often contributed for them as a journalist. They do a sterling job of supporting the scene.

I suppose I'm frustrated and want to fast track away to refuel the specialist club scene that I was lucky enough to grow up in and be apart off. This is my goal in life, and I wont leave it until I help contribute.

You already have contributed, though. Things like your podcast bring attention to many up-and-comers in the scene that you're clearly fighting so hard to uphold. Your J00F editions nights do the same thing. I just don't think the whole getting yourself on the djmag poll just to bring awareness thing is necessary. I don't think anybody doubts the contributions you've made to dance music over the past decades, and continue to make today, but it just seems kind of hypocritical that you would use an institution that you've been so critical of just to further your own agenda (regardless of how noble or reasonable that agenda is). In short, I think the contributions that you're trying to make to dance music are things that you have already done or are already doing.

I agree that it is a shame that today's dance music scene has been largely dominated by a self-perpetuating popularity contest that is the djmag polls, but I think there could be better avenues of trying to get around that than using the polls to raise awareness of your own cause. Like I said, the J00F nights you put on are a huge hit in Toronto especially, and it's things like that which further your cause more than anything else. It's not so much "hey look I can get on the dj poll even though I don't play the same music as these other guys" it's about actually exposing that music to more people. Perhaps try to play your music in larger, more well known clubs (even if they normally play the kind of music you don't like) to expose what you bring to the table to more people.

Your goal will only be accomplished by exposing more people to your type of music, not by showing that you can place high on the dj mag poll. I apologize for the name calling, but this does kind of come off more as a publicity stunt than anything else. You placing higher in the voting doesn't bring more attention to the scene that you want to promote, it brings more attention to you. I think it's definitely commendable what you're trying to do, but I feel like you're not realizing the full scope of what you're already doing for the scene, and what you've done for it your whole career.

I'm confused as to exactly what you want to create. Your own "Bedrock" night? Isn't that what your J00F nights are, already? Or what do you mean by a "specialist club."

I think that it's refreshing to see someone who is taking the time to reply...

Pretty much there are a lot of people out there who are talking about some of these points, not that the music itself isn't perpetually changing, rather that it's the general public itself which has devolved, as expectations have gone increasingly shallow, and that in the rush to capitalize on their stable of talent, management and DJ agencies may have arguably completely destroyed a certain homegrown scene with a definite flavor and faithful supporters (a community) in favor of the quick flash-in-the-pan globalized approach.

Just look at how many DJs hold weekly residencies today.... real ones, not "I'm there once in a while".

Same as with Wall Street and how it made certain people very rich, it may take years to realize that this slash-and-burn policy doesn't leave much of an ecosystem to grow more onto as they clearly had no desire whatsoever to reinvest back into the community that made them who they were in the first place.

But all of this is very heady and controversial, and to some extent thirty pages of posts isn't going to change a damn thing about it. All of the social networking, constant connectivity and other factors have altered that landscape forever, and I am not sure what anyone can do about it, really.

On this sort of topic I'd say it's about those who care to actually make the sacrifice to grow a local community should just go about doing it, the satisfaction being that they've made friends and an extended musical family rather than just made their agent and some club promoters rich.

Because when all is said and done, this sort of contribution could arguably be looked at as having gone beyond the music itself. Very few can claim that mantle. Mainly because none were aspiring to do this sort of stuff anyway. For reference, read up on quotes from Mancuso interviews. (the man who started it all)

...what becomes a legend most?

DJ FAG is so annoying, for me it doesn't mean anything...

...but i understand that for DJs is quite a big deal to be in there.

If J00F wants my support, ok, count on me, i love his sets and podcast.



By the way, be prepared guys, DJ FAG spam fest will start.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceraverla I loved his tune JAWA. With that said, J00F needs to lighten up a bit. Negativity doesn't have a place in this highly competitive scene. I advise choosing positive vibes and a bright outlook. If J00F really doesn't like the DJ Mag poll he should just not talk about it at all. He's giving it credit by blasting its name out there and coming off as a very jealous DJ. Not good when you want to attract more fans. That's my two cents.

My thoughts exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by John 00 Fleming I'm no activist and don't appreciate being called names when you don't know me and the passion I believe in. You see, I grew up with a scene that supported talented unknown DJ's, this scene was plentiful of specialist clubs for them to all play on a weekly basis. I have that very scene to be thankful too that launched mine and many others careers. In todays World this infrastructure is not in place and this is something I want to help create for all the talented up and coming DJ's out there, maybe you should read the blog before speaking out. I have nothing against DJ Magazine, I have often contributed for them as a journalist. They do a sterling job of supporting the scene. I suppose I'm frustrated and want to fast track away to refuel the specialist club scene that I was lucky enough to grow up in and be apart off. This is my goal in life, and I wont leave it until I help contribute.

The days of the "specialist" club scene that you keep referring to may be over for good John. The world is much more global than it was 10 years ago. Back in the day, when people went clubbing they relied on the DJ to search for, and pick and choose tracks to introduce them to new music. EDM was never really pushed through commercial channels, so DJs were still the source of fresh dance music. And this process of music discovery allowed DJs to develop their unique sounds and styles. This in turn, led to the specialist club scene that you refer to.

IMO DJs are no longer uniquely in such a position of influence. The internet has improved access to music for everyone. The audience is "more educated" and already walks in to a club with an expectation of what tracks they'd like to hear, because they already heard it on Youtube, or on one of the numerous popular radioshows or podcasts.

And this is happening on a global basis - so even clubbers in Hong Kong would know what tracks are making waves, say for instance, in London, and expect their local DJ to play them. If the DJ wants to make a living, he's forced to cater to the crowd's whims.

You already know this, so I'm not telling you anything new here. I admire your dedication towards the scene, but I don't think its possible to bring back those days of specialist club scenes.

quote:

Originally posted by projectd The days of the "specialist" club scene that you keep referring to may be over for good John. The world is much more global than it was 10 years ago. Back in the day, when people went clubbing they relied on the DJ to search for, and pick and choose tracks to introduce them to new music. EDM was never really pushed through commercial channels, so DJs were still the source of fresh dance music. And this process of music discovery allowed DJs to develop their unique sounds and styles. This in turn, led to the specialist club scene that you refer to. IMO DJs are no longer uniquely in such a position of influence. The internet has improved access to music for everyone. The audience is "more educated" and already walks in to a club with an expectation of what tracks they'd like to hear, because they already heard it on Youtube, or on one of the numerous popular radioshows or podcasts. And this is happening on a global basis - so even clubbers in Hong Kong would know what tracks are making waves, say for instance, in London, and expect their local DJ to play them. If the DJ wants to make a living, he's forced to cater to the crowd's whims. You already know this, so I'm not telling you anything new here. I admire your dedication towards the scene, but I don't think its possible to bring back those days of specialist club scenes.

While I completely agree with what you are saying in the sense that it's so undeniably obvious to anyone who has traveled a bit, I would say that there may well be ways for those who intend on doing so to develop, nurture and maintain a scene outside the reach of Resident Advisor, DJ Mag polls and other global opinion-making sites if this is what motivates them.

I would probably happen to think that part of this globalized vibe may be good for the short term, but also potentially having some long-term pitfalls few people have the time or the inclination to worry about. Technology is great, yet time and time again it appears that creativity with more limited means often times leads to more sincere art that might arguably have more of a long-lasting impact.. (this clearly being for another topic)

The only hitch is that this could only be possible on a very small scale at first, and mostly in a private membership-only fashion. So "if you're not a member, you cannot come in" type of event. (LOL wishful thinking) This of course severely limits the scope of whatever develops when measured against the short-term timeline expectations that everyone has for musical trends (the equivalent of quarterly stockholder dividends ruling the way certain public traded companies operate rather than them having any vision and investing into long-term R&D) but it is far from impossible.

It's clearly a matter of personal choice if someone wants to stay in the circuit of playing for thousands of people at huge events across the globe every weekend, or rather want to go back to something more intimate and personal on their home front. The problem is obviously there are a lot of intermediaries and facilitators in this picture who would stand to lose a valuable income stream if someone of that sort of stature decides to go back to their underground roots and modestly grow whatever it is that they do into something unique and very special over a long period of incubation. The tradeoff is having to sacrifice one's living standards and return to the same sort of material conditions they were probably living in at the time, without the limos, business class flights, assistants and all the rest...?

But in my opinion there is a correlation between all of those things, and nothing is impossible. Far from it actually. People just have to acknowledge what it is they are truly after, and not expect oranges to grow where they planted apple tree seeds....

Tradeoffs and compromises are of course possible as well.

i wish more dj's would speak their mind on the DJ MAG poll like JOOF, he absolutely speaks the truth about the domino effect of the poll and rising festival/club costs.

big ups John.

Actually making a statement: Facebook group saying I don't give a shit about the dj mag poll getting more votes than the dj mag poll gets

Not making a statement: Being a DJ that bags the dj mag poll then asking for people to vote for you

Hi Guys,

This discussion is very productive and really helps me, hopefully it will continue this way.

Let me clear things up, I'm not looking to build anything to do with JOOF or my JOOF Editions events. These are fine as they are and building naturally due to myself pushing them.
After my initial rant a few years ago (sorry about them btw!) I learned to put put my words into actions, so I created my own events allowing me to play the music I wanted, and it's working perfectly.

I'm looking to help the scene as a whole. Remember I came from a specialist/underground scene that was plentiful. Not only clubs but an infrastructure that supported these producers and DJ's. Journalists would actually venture out into these clubs, hear the DJ's and music, then report back in the form of text in magazines.If they where good, they'd get supported! Todays magazines seem to get force fed what to write by powerful marketing companies paid by rich DJ's.

I know many of you are budding DJ's and producers out there;
When's the last time you have a track reviewed in press?
When's the last time you got some editorial on your DJing skills?
None, is probably the answer for most, and this needs to change as I have seen some outstanding talent while on the road.

I 100% know if I can be involved with building a new infrastructure, it will make heads turn, especially with club owners and promoters, to make them realize there is another way of filling clubs rather than booking headline acts.

Regarding the poll, remember I was in it for many years. I wanted out of the poll because people where booking a 'number' rather than knowing what I was about musically. My gigs where getting worse! Since being out of the poll my gigs are 1000000% better, I'm in the happiest place ever in my career. The one benefit I saw from being in the poll, was corporate companies approaching me for sponsorship. This is my reasoning for maybe giving it a shot again. I can then get sponsorship to start building a community to support the specialist scene, something that doesn't exist out there. Regardless of the poll or not, I'm going to make this happen either way and need help and support, there's a HUGE job ahead.

So please ignore the Poll for me personally. I'm doing this to help rebuild the scene I grew up in because week by week I'm seeing it get smaller and smaller. I'll also benefit as there will be a load more clubs for me to play at too!

So maybe now you know my reasoning, we can discuss here. This will help me.


Thanks for being so kind this time, I'm taking my brave pill coming into the forum

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Nope. Does anybody ever ask you to post in any thread you moron? Whether he's on the list or not he's still an incredibly popular trance act, so trying to pump up his poll numbers like it's going to send some kind of message and promote the "anti-DJ poll super totally underground trance movement" is pretty silly. I don't understand what "movement" is trying to get started here. People are going to love how he plays regardless of whether he's in the DJ Mag poll or not, as evidenced by how he remains very popular despite not commanding a high post on the poll. He's trying to gain votes on the poll to spread some message that the poll should be obsolete and that the kind of music he plays should become more popular, which I just don't see that little stunt accomplishing at all. Besides, the kinds of people whose attention it would draw are probably the same types of people who destroy the "scene" he works so hard to uphold. I like his music, and his sets are always great, but this whole "scene" activism thing seems a little "look at me"ish.

I don't think you properly read his blog.

his goal is not to get a lot of votes to spread a message (and certainly not to make the poll obsolete), his goal is to be on the list so he can open more doors with his number from the poll. It will help him in contacting promotors and in organizing and creating events for a more specialist crowd. With these events he can give opportunities to starting DJ's and artists which have the same view on the scene like him. Maybe some of them can even start a solid career thanks to this

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