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Ready to Compose - Not DJ (For now). HELP

Hello TA Community, this is my first post and surely wont be my last.

Basics - I love Trance, so I assume I am at the right place.
My Goal is to over the next 6 months accumulate the best gear to create my own music. I'm a trance veteran, 25 years old, and ready to play my cards at becoming a world-class producer. That being said.

Bio :
Name : Mike
Location : Tampa, USA
Hobbies : Working to buy anything and everything needed to become the best at creating original trance music.
Favorite artists : Kaskade, Tiesto, all the cliche's. Deadmau5, Pendulum, Rusko, AAB, The Qemists, Bassnectar, Skrillex (A little Dubstep never hurt no one), OceanLab, DJ Encore, Morgan Page, Ian Van Dahl, etc etc etc.
I in no way intend to copy these artists, but they would be among my inspiration in creating my music.

Now my main question : Where do I Begin?
Keyboard choice? I've done some personal research and a Yamaha Motif XS6 with Mbox + ProTools 9 seems to look like an interesting start, am I hot or Cold? I'm not looking for a beginners guide and a lollipop with someone holding my hand, I'm looking for the real deal headfirst dive into a challenging as all heck adventure into the beginnings of a DJ you all will be hearing shortly and know by name.

I am not looking for flamers stating how difficult it is to make it OR for people trying to put me down for being so excited and passionate about making my dream of making original trance music come true. I am looking for the most brutal and honest advice as to what SOFTWARE, HARDWARE, and SKILLSETS I need to produce the highest quality music similar to the artists mentioned above. Thank you all in advance.

Long live trance.

Mac or PC?

p.s. you like phaggot music

PC

Mbox + Protools is a good setup. Not too sure about midi controllers tho, I need to do some research there. Just make sure I guess you have all the different commands covered if you really wanna go all out.

Pretty new to the scene, when you say midi controllers your referring to the keyboard correct? I'm wondering if i am going to buy pro tools and mbox, do i need to be buying a pimped out keyboard like the Motif or should I just be buy a regular keyboard? What are the pro's and con's here?

Midi controllers come in various forms and are basically the physical interface that you can use instead of using a mouse for everything (and you can do that, unless you want to record a certain arrangement live). There are midi controller keyboards, drum pads, faders, knobs, etc...so you might want to look at all of those if you're really going all out. Besides that there's a quality of course, and the built-in features. For example with a keyboard, you can get one with 49 keys, 61 keys and more. Some have weighted keys as well, which has a much nicer feel. Some are also a synthesizer at the same time, so they have lots of built-in sounds and can be used independently of the software).

Beyond that man, honestly, if you're not willing/able or have the head to learn this stuff yourself, you will never, ever make good music. Making good music takes having real heart, and if you need to rely on others to transfer every single bit of knowledge to you without learning on your own, you certainly don't have one. I've been pretty helpful I think, but I really feel that if you are asking such questions you might not be ready, or I HIGHLY question your intentions. Same goes for a lot of people who come here and make these threads.

And if you're "new to the scene" you might want to take some time to know the music a little better before starting to make it. I understand that you like who you like, but it is true that people who like that kind of music have not been familiar with dance music for very long. Trust me, there is much, much better and more well thought-out electronic dance music out there, and I urge you strongly to seek it out before you start to make your own beats. Every Harry, Michael and Joe is doing that these days and trust me it is neither putting money in their pockets nor contributing to the "scene" in any way.

what adam wrote^

if you want knowledge download everything tiesto ever put out, his entire discography and all of his livesets starting from the beginning in the early 90s. you will learn much. learn that this track was a tiesto ANTHEM:



listen to tiesto's nyana. first cd doesn't start with trance. it starts with techno. listen to the early magik compilations. you ever hear trance at 150bpm? no?

learn of the golden age. learn of the downfall. learn of decadence. and then produce some good music.

quote:

Originally posted by NewbieNewForYou Pretty new to the scene, when you say midi controllers your referring to the keyboard correct? I'm wondering if i am going to buy pro tools and mbox, do i need to be buying a pimped out keyboard like the Motif or should I just be buy a regular keyboard? What are the pro's and con's here?

james holden produced "horizons" with a computer running Max/MSP, a 20quid casio keyboard about a foot and a half wide, and what knowledge of sound he picked up as an undergrad physics major. (and alotta weed.)

for the rest of your questions, there is an excellent section with tutorials in this subforum:

http://tranceaddict.com/forum/showt...2&forumid=48&s=

http://tranceaddict.com/forum/showt...7&forumid=48&s=

reading discussions in the forums will help, too.

Moved

Dont waste your money on a expensive midi controller keyboard.
Why would u need a Motif?
If you are going to want a hardware synth then buy a VIrus TI2 49 key or 61, or Nord lead 2x 49 key. Use as Midi keyboard.
Otherwise a standard cheap midi keyboard will do the job, like M-Audio.

Sound card just get something like the Focusrite Saffire 6, sounds good and not expensive. Dont forget Moniters.

Any Daw will do, just what your most comfortable with. Personally I really enjoy using Logic over the rest. I'd us FL if on PC again.

VST wise, just check out the demos and buy what you like best, I recommend Rapture, Z3ta+2 and of course Omnisphere. All amazing.

Learn the basic of music theory, isnt really hard at all.

Great tracks dont need amazing gear, its how you put your idea's down on your DAW.

Goodluck hope to hear something from you soon

quote:

Originally posted by Julz Dont waste your money on a expensive midi controller keyboard. Why would u need a Motif? If you are going to want a hardware synth then buy a VIrus TI2 49 key or 61, or Nord lead 2x 49 key. Use as Midi keyboard. Otherwise a standard cheap midi keyboard will do the job, like M-Audio. Sound card just get something like the Focusrite Saffire 6, sounds good and not expensive. Dont forget Moniters. Any Daw will do, just what your most comfortable with. Personally I really enjoy using Logic over the rest. I'd us FL if on PC again. VST wise, just check out the demos and buy what you like best, I recommend Rapture, Z3ta+2 and of course Omnisphere. All amazing. Learn the basic of music theory, isnt really hard at all. Great tracks dont need amazing gear, its how you put your idea's down on your DAW. Goodluck hope to hear something from you soon

If he wants to spend money, let him spend it.

dunno about pro tools, it isnt really dance music orientated. ive never heard of a dance producer using a motif neither.

eh this could actually make your music sound original. so, why not.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam420 Beyond that man, honestly, if you're not willing/able or have the head to learn this stuff yourself, you will never, ever make good music.

It kinda makes me sad that this even needs to be pointed out to people.

I understand it's a very technical process but at its core, making music is a creative endeavor. The technical shit is easy from the beginning, you can spend years learning all there is to know about producing but as far as starting out new and figuring out how to make something rudimentary, it takes an hour or two of poking around and reading the manual.

If the effort required to learn how to start making music seems daunting (which it is, I understand that completely), you're in for a world of hell when you realize how hard things get once you get off the ground. This is the easy part, don't spoil yourself by trying to have people do that for you. It'll make the actual production process that much harder on yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by mathieu dunno about pro tools, it isnt really dance music orientated. ive never heard of a dance producer using a motif neither. eh this could actually make your music sound original. so, why not.

It's more for mixing and post-production, yes, but people do use it, including a certain Montreal producers whose had releases on some pretty big labels (can you guess? ). The thing about ProTools though, is that the sound quality is really high up there, which is a good reason to consider it. It also comes with a boatload of plugins many of which let you do arrangement/compositions/etc...

Perhaps not the most user-friendly and you definitely won't produce a track as quickly as you would with, say, Ableton, but to some the extra headache is worth it because the end result cam sound much better.

Re: Ready to Compose - Not DJ (For now). HELP

quote:

Originally posted by NewbieNewForYou I am looking for the most brutal and honest advice as to what SKILLSETS I need to produce the highest quality music

In terms of skillsets, for me number one, and often underestimated is attention to detail.

Just trips off the tongue and noobs will nod saying with inevitable earnestness that 'oh yea' attention to detail, thats me all over'.

It's a bit like how most job applicants trust robotically state 'I'll giev you 110% Mister'. In reality most of them wont even know what 110% means.

So what do we mean by attention to detail.


In my opinion you either have it or you don't. It cannot be learned. It's a way of being, and in the end for me the better producers all have this attribute.

Not convinced?

Ok ask yourself a question;

100 people are born that end up getting into cooking.

They all have access to the same recipies, so why does only 1 of them end up a top chef, and the rest as ships cooks?

It can only be one thing in the final analysis. Attention to the tiniest details.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam420 The thing about ProTools though, is that the sound quality is really high up there, which is a good reason to consider it.

No. Please stop perpetuating this misinformation.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam420 It also comes with a boatload of plugins many of which let you do arrangement/compositions/etc..

That doesn't even make sense.

To the OP, Pro Tools is fine for dance music production, but its feature set is far more oriented toward working with audio files, whereas much of EDM relies on working with MIDI. That said, PT9's MIDI feature set is more than adequate to the task. However, one area that it is currently lagging far behind the competition is that it's still only a 32-bit application, which puts it at a severe disadvantage relative to the competition if you use a lot of samples or sample-based instruments (e.g., Nexus, Kontakt, Omnisphere). I'm sure that 64-bit PT is not far off, though, and I'll be surprised (based on various rumors) if it's not available before the end of the year.

That said, if you're just starting out, you'll be seeking a lot of help and if you have specific questions about how to accomplish a given task in your DAW, you probably won't find a whole lot of PT users around here to help you. So, for that reason alone, I would suggest going with a DAW that is more commonly used for EDM (e.g., Ableton Live, Cubase, Logic, FLS).

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik No. Please stop perpetuating this misinformation.

That's only what I was told first hand by ProTools users. I guess they don't know anything. And I was being fairly general, so no need to rip into me. When I wrote plugins, I meant stuff like Reason adapted, etc...May not have been the right word. Do you want to tell me that the sound quality with Abelton is as good as ProTools? Even if you are using an MBox for both? (which you can now do with the new models).

quote:

Originally posted by Adam420 And I was being fairly general, so no need to rip into me.

Nobody's ripping into you - you're spreading misinformation based on hearsay and it's not doing the OP any favors. I am a PT user as well as a Sonar user and I am fluent in many other DAWs, including Live and Cubase. As far as plugins go, PT actually comes with relatively few plugins and, if you want more, you have to buy the production pack (or third party plugins, of course). Plugins do not have an affect on the composition or arrangement - that's what the composer does in his DAW. Nobody's looking for a debate here, but again, this type of misinformation and misuse of terminology is only going to confuse the OP.

Fair enough.

I'm new to the forums here so forgive my poor posting format.

My interest is not in spending money, obviously. It's in finding out what would be the most beneficial equipment and research to help mold me to creating my own sounds. Thanks for the constructive criticism Adam. Of course you can't understand my appreciation for trance music by me listing the songs I like and have tagged on my Pandora account (Thats the list above). I was giving an example of the genre I want to be a part of. I like phaggot music? Sure, I guess I can accept that. I like what I like.

-Quote from Adam-
And if you're "new to the scene" you might want to take some time to know the music a little better before starting to make it.

I'm sorry but if your trying to tell me that its impossible to create good music without listening to someone else's version of "favorite" music, your an idiot.

Re : Pozz
That Tiesto track is sick, and I own Nyana, along with just about every other Tiesto CD. I've seen him live many times and seeing him again in 12 days in Tallahassee. I'm not an OMG Adagio for Strings or LOL Motorcycle As the Rush Comes Fanboy, but thats not to say I haven't loved these tracks since I was young/ they came out.

I'm going to take a few days researching these golden ages, decadence, downfall, etc. Chances are i know 80% of the tracks just didn't know their classification into era's.

Julz -
Thank you for the advice as far as hardware. With this thread I've been convinced a pricey keyboard isn't needed, and I thank you all for the input. Music theory I have covered, I'm great on the piano, guitar, trumpet (dont ask) etc. I have an ear for music, I always hear things in songs others dont, and am perfectly happy with earphones outside for 8-10 hours at a time as long as i have good tracks. I'm ready for this and want to know the BASICS OF EQUIPTMENT and you Sir have been the most helpful, thank you.

Again, Adam, You judging me off of so little is amusing to me, especially given that my origional and only question I've asked in this thread is what hardware is the best to get STARTED on my goals of music production. Not a flamer telling me my musical choice is phaggy and that i have no ear or heart or soul for music. Your criticism has helped me because i've looked at it as inspiration. Thank you for being so judgmental with so little knowledge of who I am. Honestly, I cannot wait to send you my first track and have you rip me a new one, you cannot succeed without having flamer antifanboy's always telling you what you can do better.

Lastly, as I'm sure this community see's alot of threads from newbs like me, I again thank you all for your support and advice. Tracks on the way. Any additional input as far as must-do-research to help mold my tracks to come is much appreciated.

You are welcome. You come here, saying that you don't even DJ, asking such elementary questions without exhibiting a single bit of knowledge on the subject, so I can't help but assume the worst. And I'm sorry, but the producers you listed are all shite. I'm not saying listen to who I listen to, just saying there is such better stuff out there than that n00b shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam420 Do you want to tell me that the sound quality with Abelton is as good as ProTools?

Hang on, so your trying to tell me if I load a vsti up in each of these with the same patch, PT will sound better than live????

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 Hang on, so your trying to tell me if I load a vsti up in each of these with the same patch, PT will sound better than live????

I don't know, what I was told may not have been in reference to the latest version. the MBox used to be only for PT, but the new ones can interface with any DAW. So with those the sounds quality may very well be the same with different programs.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 Hang on, so your trying to tell me if I load a vsti up in each of these with the same patch, PT will sound better than live????

No. Here is a Maschine loop that I created in standalone mode, then exported in 16/44.1 from three different DAWs, including PT9. Which one is PT? Which one sounds vastly superior?

http://www.cryophonik.com/files/TA_..._Comparison.wav

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