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Software pricing - ludicrous?

Given the state of the world I find a lot of music software unrealisticaly priced - do you?


For a while I've had this default reaction to software products that goes something like;

"Wtf, are these people off thier nuts, who the heck wants to pay �250 for a reverb / valve emulation - afterall I reckon I could get the same result just by chaining a few existing FX".


Is it me, or do others feel there is this vast wall of product on offer and as such I just rarely feel I can justify spending too much on software unless it's something I really think will make a difference such as Omnisphere.

I did actualy pay �90 for the most basic Autotune this week - hope it's worth it.


Are a lot of software developers just behind the curve and hence going to find themselves without any customers?

To me the pricing is way over cooked with a few notoable exceptions such as;


Sausage Fattener $29
http://www.dadalife.com/?p=937


Toraverb 39 Euros
http://d16.pl/index.php?menu=228

software has never been cheaper. Seems like every company is having a firesale. I impulsively buy anything and everything just because the cost is insignificant. I mean waves alone, the prices have dropped so much.

I suppose if you are from the plugin age, you don't remember how much things used to cost to get bad results and then look at how much it costs now. I mean the lexicon pcm reverbs were in the thousands and you got one stereo channel. Now you can spend less and have as many as your cpu can handle.

If you find software expensive, it is because you feel the need to buy things that could probably be covered by things you already have, You don't need 10 compressors. You don't need 10 EQs.

Even synth wise, there was a time where everyone had a virus a jp8000 and a nord 2. About a 5000-6000 investment. You could spend about 1000 on soft synths and get way more versatility, more instances and more unique sounds.

If you remember the days of hardware samplers which was not that far away, the yamaha or akai samplers with megabytes of space that cost in the thousands.

And then you needed a mixer which was of course cost thousands as well. I mean a modest minimal setup used to cost minimum 20 000. You can get the same results for a fraction of the cost now. You could ostensibly make a top 10 EDM track without spending over 1500$

Sausage Fattener - has to be the best name of any software, ever. I think I'm going to buy it just for the name, and so I can do a youtube tutorial and when the guy asks me what plugins I use, I can say it out loud.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney You don't need 10 compressors. You don't need 10 EQs.

LOL

You really don't. Especially for EQ, unless it has some kind of special saturation.

What looney said. Few years back cubase costed about 1000E. Now only half. Prices have been dropping and will remain to do so slowly for another while to come (at least that is what I expect). A lot of good deals are just around the corner.

Ya, I hear you man.

It's a real bitch when everything is free.

Totally agree with L4C. I think that what we're seeing lately (e.g., with Waves) is a response to increased competition from smaller companies whose products are cheaper, as good/better, and already 64-bit. So, the big developers of yesteryear are not making any money by inflating their prices. The big studios bought their products years ago and piracy has become so rampant among everybody else that there is no money to be made these days, so they're slashing prices to generate sales during a stagnant period.

I could be wrong, but I think that these developers who are charging an arm and a leg for their software are pretty stupid because: (1) it's hard to be considered "elite" in the software world when the best products are merely emulations of hardware and/or only marginally better than something costing a fraction, and (2) the market for these expensive products (e.g., bigger studios and a handful of hobbyists) is pretty small - most people will just use cracks if something is out of their price range. You're not going to stop the piracy, so I think that your best bet is to price them reasonably and try to maximize the number of people that will actually pay for them. Valhalla is a perfect example - his Room reverb is getting rave reviews from everybody and it's considered a serious contender for the likes of Lexicon, 2C Audio, Acoustic Arts, etc., yet it's only $50 and it's selling like crazy. Unfortunately, he will probably get bought up by a larger developer who will jack the prices up, but that's a whole other issue.

Expensive, but worth it if you're producing for the long run. Your software won't go degrade over time. Your EQ will still do it's job years later. So will your synths and other effects. Sure there will be new improvements, versions, features, etc, but how advanced do you need to get with some of this stuff?

In the end, your EQ is still gonna EQ, compressor will compress, and a Sausage Fattener will continue doing whatever the hell it does just as well as the day you bought it.

For the transient producer however - the ones that come and try this out for a few months and quit - spending on this expensive stuff is a waste. Then again, most of these types don't necessarily buy the software anyhow...

Frankly... I wouldn't even piss on that sausage fattener plug.

quote:

Originally posted by cl0ckw3rk Expensive, but worth it if you're producing for the long run. Your software won't go degrade over time. Your EQ will still do it's job years later. So will your synths and other effects. Sure there will be new improvements, versions, features, etc, but how advanced do you need to get with some of this stuff? In the end, your EQ is still gonna EQ, compressor will compress, and a Sausage Fattener will continue doing whatever the hell it does just as well as the day you bought it. For the transient producer however - the ones that come and try this out for a few months and quit - spending on this expensive stuff is a waste. Then again, most of these types don't necessarily buy the software anyhow...

until the company goes bust and your new os doesn't support it. HArdware also keeps a portion of its value where as software is pretty much worth nothing used and in fact most companies won't even allow it.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney until the company goes bust and your new os doesn't support it. HArdware also keeps a portion of its value where as software is pretty much worth nothing used and in fact most companies won't even allow it.

New OS doesn't support it? Where would you get such a silly notion.

think this one thru

OS number 1 goes to OS number 2 , OS 2 does not support say a file type called PPC. Now if only the company was still around to update the plugin from PPC to intel which they aren't . Darn.

make sense ?

Apple you mean, Apple was the only manufacturer, still in business who ever used anything else than intel or AMD based x86 and x64.

I would not call that a future risk but just the last stubburn legacy cockup from Apple. Now apple is all open standards as well (at least on hardware, if you omit their EFI bios protection) and X86 / x64 is the only platform remaining in the world, i don't really see this as a risk.

ARM (well, not completely, yet) - supposedly windows 8 has it covered though.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik I could be wrong, but I think that these developers who are charging an arm and a leg for their software are pretty stupid because: (1) it's hard to be considered "elite" in the software world when the best products are merely emulations of hardware and/or only marginally better than something costing a fraction, and (2) the market for these expensive products (e.g., bigger studios and a handful of hobbyists) is pretty small -

Yes, this is what I was thinking.

I saw an add for some filter the other day and the price was �200, and I just cannot see many people forking that out for such a limited device. There may be some slight audio USP, but it just wont be worth the extra $$$

This lead me to wondering how the heck such firms are going to survive as thier model seems so out of step with what consumers want and expect.

I heard a cracked SSL full suite recently, �1000 worth, and honestly I think it's worth about �195 the lot. Sure it sounded ok, but nothing out the ordinary. The verb I think goes for about �200 and it was just very average at best.

quote:

Originally posted by cl0ckw3rk New OS doesn't support it? Where would you get such a silly notion.

Edit: sarcasm

I'm an OS/BIOS developer. I am en route to ruin everyone's life soon enough.

Although many platforms will move to a UEFI foundation in the next few years, you're always going to have your legacy x86-based systems floating about. They've been around too long to get weened out, even if industry says it plans to. They'll be supported for a long time.

i thought most daws had everything u need included? the rest is up to the person imo.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Yes, this is what I was thinking. I saw an add for some filter the other day and the price was �200, and I just cannot see many people forking that out for such a limited device. There may be some slight audio USP, but it just wont be worth the extra $$$ This lead me to wondering how the heck such firms are going to survive as thier model seems so out of step with what consumers want and expect. I heard a cracked SSL full suite recently, �1000 worth, and honestly I think it's worth about �195 the lot. Sure it sounded ok, but nothing out the ordinary. The verb I think goes for about �200 and it was just very average at best.

I think you have to look at your own situation as an amateur producer and accept that some products are aimed at professionals. The SSL plugins are probably the closet you will get to their digital console dsp. Not sure if it is a direct port but the price is far from ridiculous. And their plugins sound great. The only thing that bugs me is that they limit your plugin to only 1 computer. That is quite annoying. I think 2 computers should be the minimum as most people run 2 computers these days.

If 200 is alot for you , use free plugins. don't know what else to say.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney If 200 is alot for you , use free plugins. don't know what else to say.

A good many software music products are over priced, tis nothing to do with being out of range for me. I have an investors mentality and don't like waste or unjustified expense.

The SSL verb is worse that cubase revernce, the SSL Drumstrip is nothing I cant emulate in cubase.

By all means have a different opine, but this has nothing to do with my pockets and everything to do with pricing and value. I'll bet a fair few developers will be shutting shop or continuing and expanding upon discounting.

WAVES to my mind was always a price joke. I'd spend �1000 on 2 nights in Amanpulo but not on a bit of software like that personaly.

I dont have Ipad either - all a bit gimmicky for me really, maybe I'm wierd, I just dont like lining up like a fashion robot and sucking designer cock, that why I'd never wear designer clothes

Who wants to make the Gucci family rich? I go out my way not to buy the latest fads.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler WAVES to my mind was always a price joke.

Maybe, but you have to remember that they were priced relative to what people would pay for them, and that was during a time of economic prosperity and customers felt comfortable spending beyond our means. Times have changed and Waves is finally realizing it.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I dont have Ipad either - all a bit gimmicky for me really, maybe I'm wierd, I just dont like lining up like a fashion robot and sucking designer cock,

Not to get too far OT here, but iPads balance out the gimmicky stuff with useful tools. Calling it a fashion statement is really missing the point - it's the new generation laptop, but even more portable and immediate. And, it's only going to improve.

i think you have a skewed sense of what is good , and what isn't.The ipad is far from a gimmick but I doubt you own one which would explain alot about how you form your opinions. SSL is not known for their reverb. Their compressors on the other hand are not only cheaper than say UAD but arguably better. ANd the reverb doesn't cost 200 pounds. And the reverb sounds good. I suppose someone that uses cracks probably doesn't have much in terms of anything including monitoring so I don't expect you to have an opinion unbiased by shitting signal chain and overall bad taste taking your last few mixes into account.

In regards to approaching things as an investor, it is music equipment. Probably the worst investment one can make if you look at your net return on dollar spent. So not really sure how you manage that without swimming in a sea of idiocy.

Well, I think software is actually pretty cheap. A good guitar costs more than a good VST instrument.

I think more so than ever we're seeing a shift in the way software is sold and priced.

literally everyday, another software supplier has some kind of fire/name your/super-discounted/all-in-one/BOGOF sale.

The big manufacturers are being forced to bring prices down and the little ones are the people applying the pressure.

Shit I remember when some of the waves bundles cost �6000, and that wasn't even the top bundle. Granted they were great, especially for the time, but that was more than a top spec studio grade PC and audio interface cost you then.

I think part of it is that a lot of things hve gone native - there's no longer that pressure to have to invest in very expensive hardware to get premium quality, and that combined with smaller, lesser known software suppliers coming out with incredibly good an low priced plugs, has forced what we're seeing now.

Think about how much it has changed - my mate, back in the mid 90's, used to have the only mobile protools rig in Europe - it did 16 channels and cost �200,000 and he made an absolute fortune renting that thing out to studios/live venues that needed protools for short period. 6 years later he couldn't give the thing away for free.

Technology changes, and prices get lower - you used to need to spend $20k minimum to have a chance of making a decent EDM track.

Now, a $500 PC and a bunch of free software will yield the same results.

Example? Daniel Beddingfields "Gotta Get through this" was made in Reason 1, with a bunch of free plugs and cheap mic (�100).
It went to no1 twice in the UK, and No.10 in the states, and was nominated for a grammy.

I knew I shouldn't have sold that cvnt that mic. I sold his sister all her kit as well (sorry guys )

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Technology changes, and prices get lower - you used to need to spend $20k minimum to have a chance of making a decent EDM track.

No shit

Have you seen the Fairlight app?

I mean, I actually used one of those things in a studio in about '88 and it was about $30k at the time. Even the Emulator 2 that I used in a few tracks was about $5k's worth as it had a CD-ROM attached....in 1988!!

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord No shit Have you seen the Fairlight app? I mean, I actually used one of those things in a studio in about '88 and it was about $30k at the time. Even the Emulator 2 that I used in a few tracks was about $5k's worth as it had a CD-ROM attached....in 1988!!

Lol, know exactly what you mean.

I remember around that time my mate's dad was a graphic designer, and he got a CD-ROM drive for his computer, and we were drooling over it's future-ness . It cost �4,500 and the CD's were �100 a pop

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