TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Working With Vocals

Working With Vocals

Hey whats up guys. I recently came to a point with my music where i felt i was competent enough to try my hand at a vocal remix. However i cannot even begin because i fail at step one. When i find the vocals that i want, and i try to add the kicks....i can never get the rhythm right and it sounds HORRIBLE. Even when im doing just the 4 on the floor pattern. I understand that not all vocal rhythms work with 4 on the floor, but it seems that remixers just somehow make it work. I even tried delaying the kicks to match the vocal but that was a fail. I even tried i small amount of sidechain on the vocal to match the rhythm but that didnt work either. Is there a monumental step in working with vocals that I am missing? I understand that a lot of the rhythm is in the baseline/chord progression but obviously all of that revolves around the kick. I would greately appreciate any feedback.

Re: Working With Vocals

quote:

Originally posted by runawaywaffle3 Hey whats up guys. I recently came to a point with my music where i felt i was competent enough to try my hand at a vocal remix. However i cannot even begin because i fail at step one. When i find the vocals that i want, and i try to add the kicks....i can never get the rhythm right and it sounds HORRIBLE. Even when im doing just the 4 on the floor pattern. I understand that not all vocal rhythms work with 4 on the floor, but it seems that remixers just somehow make it work. I even tried delaying the kicks to match the vocal but that was a fail. I even tried i small amount of sidechain on the vocal to match the rhythm but that didnt work either. Is there a monumental step in working with vocals that I am missing? I understand that a lot of the rhythm is in the baseline/chord progression but obviously all of that revolves around the kick. I would greately appreciate any feedback.

Try setting the tempo of the song to the tempo of the vocals.

quote:

Originally posted by runawaywaffle3 I understand that not all vocal rhythms work with 4 on the floor, but it seems that remixers just somehow make it work.

The only vocals that won't fit with a 4/4 beat are ones that are in some other time signature. If you can't determine the time signature of a vocal line, you probably shouldn't try working with them just yet.

You did find out the BPM of the vocal line you're using, right?

i knew that the tempo of the vocals was not the tempo i usually work at, but i figured when i imported the vocals into my project that it would be assigned to the tempo i was working at? But ill try putting the track to the original BPM of the vocals

quote:

Originally posted by runawaywaffle3 but i figured when i imported the vocals into my project that it would be assigned to the tempo i was working at?

No offense or anything, but why the fuck did you think that would happen?

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora No offense or anything, but why the fuck did you think that would happen?

lol to be honest i dont know, just a lapse of thought.
okay but i set the tempo of the track to the vocal line and the kicks are still off.
i even managed to change the tempo of the loop and that didnt work.
do you have to move the kicks off the grid slightly to add a groove or something?
like the way you add groove to hi-hats?

this thread hurts

quote:

Originally posted by runawaywaffle3 lol to be honest i dont know, just a lapse of thought. okay but i set the tempo of the track to the vocal line and the kicks are still off. i even managed to change the tempo of the loop and that didnt work. do you have to move the kicks off the grid slightly to add a groove or something? like the way you add groove to hi-hats?

think other way around. you have to move the vocals to the kick. look up vocal warping in whatever DAW you're using.

quote:

Originally posted by runawaywaffle3 okay but i set the tempo of the track to the vocal line and the kicks are still off.

Then either the BPM is still wrong or the downbeat of the vocal line isn't syncing up with the downbeat of your kicks. Fix those two things and you won't have a problem.

i think im just going to have to keep working at it, thanks for your responses

This thread does hurt.

I don't really get the problem to be honest. If you have a vocal, solo it and you can hear where the kick should be - tap your foot or the table to the tempo that you hear.

Now is your track that tempo? adjust the pitch/time to fit your BPM (in logic you use the pitch and time fucntion, warp in protools, teimestretch in Cubase and warp/map in ableton).

Most vocals start on the beat or off the beat, so it's really just a case of phrasing, and that can be done by chopping it up.

Unless you are completely devoid of any basic timing ability or instincts, I think what you're probably having issues with is that the vocal is either in a different time signature altogether, or that it's so vastly different from your BPM that you haven't realised you'll need to double time phrase it to make it work.

Post up the vocal and we'll be able to help better.

Yea, just so you know, the tempo of vocals, is not always the tempo of track or vise versa. When I remixed Roger Shah's - Dance w/ me the complete vocal was at 120.5 or something, while the track was actually 122.5 or 125. I forgot. But nonetheless. The best way to get vocals to line-up is to cut em down and import them into a sampler. Then play the parts of the track that either have the most impact or you can play whatever goes together. I did a remix of Daft Punk's - Harder Better Faster Stronger using this technique.

I emported the accapela into ReCycle, which is used in order to create a .rex file.

I then cut down the samples into manageable parts.

I then created an instance of the NNXT advanced sampler and used my midi keyboard to play the parts that I wanted.

In an advanced step, I went into the sequencer/piano roll, and drew notes as to enhance what I played on the keyboard.

Listen Here:
Harder Better Stronger Faster by DJRYAN�

The other thing to remember, is, sometimes vocals do sound the way they're supposed to at the right tempo/bpm. But in order to get them to line up, always stagger the vocals 1/2 step off the beat. The vocals should come in not right on the beat, but just a milisecond later.

oh! and another thing you can do is open up an instance of whatever virtual dj software you use. Allbeit, Ableton, or Virtual DJ, Dekadance or whatever, and play your acapella through that, while simultaneously having you project play in whatever DAW. Then shift the tempo until your right on.

From there, you can then look through your music library for a song that matches the tempo and then sync it to perfection, seeing how most pitch adjusts on virtualdj software sucks.

And you'll need to re-record the acapella at the correct bpm in order for it to fit nicely into your project but you'll still probably have to play with some of it a bit in order for it to fit perfectly.

Also, here's a video demonstrating what you "could" do. Just substitute the fancy device for a midi keyboard.


Paul Oakenfold and Chuckie drop into Dallas Austin's studio after the Atlanta show on the Facelift tour.


Okay, good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN� Also, here's a video demonstrating what you "could" do. Just substitute the fancy device for a midi keyboard. Paul Oakenfold and Chuckie drop into Dallas Austin's studio after the Atlanta show on the Facelift tour.

Erm, is it just me or is that video painful to watch

pudgey middle aged blokes in jacket and jeans, looking really uncomfortable on camera, being down with the guy pressing one button on a fisher price "my first sampler" while everyone else (including the guy dressed as burger king) makes white boy hand shakes at the "phat beatz".

Sorry Ryan, I can't actually tell whether you do it on purpose or your taste is really that bad. That video is like a gross caricature of everything that is wrong with music. I don't really know where to start and I'm seriously perplexed that of all the videos out there showing sample chop ups, you think it's a good example of it.

I've always refrained from commenting on your musical tastes, because each to their own and at least your passionate about what your doing, but please tell me it's all an elaborate so_bad_it's_funny_again persona?

Ok, wait, Paul Oakenfold, Chuckie, and Dallas Austin. Let's first start w/ Dallas Austin:

Some of his most notable clients include Michael Jackson, TLC, Boyz II Men, Pink, Monica, Madonna, Gwen Stefani, Stacie Orrico, Another Bad Creation, Fishbone, Sugababes, Anastacia, Namie Amuro, Kim Zolciak from the Real Housewives of Atlanta and McFly.

Now onto Paul Oakenfold:

Albums
Studio Albums 2002 Bunkka
2006 A Lively Mind
2012 Pop Killer
DJ Tools 2000 Bust A Groove
2000 Sampladelica: The Roots of Paul Oakenfold
2006 The Ultimate DJ Sample Box (with Norman Cook)



DJ Mixes 1994 Goa Mix
1994 Journeys By DJ 5: Journey Through The Spectrum
1995 A Voyage into Trance
1996 Perfecto Fluoro
1997 Fantazia Presents the House Collection 6
1997 Cream Anthems 97
1997 Global Underground 004
1998 Tranceport
1998 Global Underground 007
1999 Resident: Two Years of Oakenfold at Cream
2000 Perfecto Presents: Travelling

2000 Perfecto Presents: Another World
2000 Essential Selection Vol. 1 (with Fatboy Slim)
2001 Swordfish (soundtrack)
2001 Perfecto Presents Ibiza
2003 Perfecto Presents: Great Wall
2004 Creamfields
2005 Perfecto Presents: The Club
2007 Greatest Hits & Remixes, Vol. 1
2008 Anthems UK Edition
2009 Perfecto Vegas
2011 The Goa Mix 2011


[edit] DVDs
2004: A Voyage Into Trance
2008: 24:7 (documentary and live concert)

[edit] Filmography
2002 The Rules of Attraction (Himself)
2003 Dancestar USA 2003 (Himself)
2003 No Cover (Guest)
2003 MTV Europe Music Awards 2003 (Himself)
2004 The Club (Himself)
2007 Post Military Trip (Guest)

[edit] See also
Big Brother (TV series)
Electra (Paul Oakenfiled, Nick Divaris, John "Johnny" Rocca and Micky)
Elementfour (Paul Oakenfold and Andy Gray)

And now Chuckie:

Remixes
David Guetta -ft. Akon - Sexy Bitch (Chuckie & Lil Jon Remix)
David Guetta -ft. Estelle - One Love (Chuckie & Fatman Scoop Remix)
Bob Sinclar - Love You No More (Chuckie Remix)
Chris Kaeser - Who's In The House (Chuckie Remix)
David Guetta - Everytime We Touch (Chuckie Remix)
Sunnery James & Ryan Marciano - Pondo (Chuckie & Silvio Ecomo Mix)
Groovewatchers - Sexy Girl (Chuckie Remix)
Joachim Garraud - Are You Ready (Chuckie Remix)
Luis Lopez vs Jesse Lee - Is This Love (Chuckie Remix)
Robbie Rivera - Let Me Sip My Drink (Chuckie Remix)
Sidney Samson feat. Lady Bee - Shut Up & Let It Go (Chuckie Mix)
Sidney Samson feat. Lady Bee Bizee - Come On Lets Go (Chuckie Remix)
Nari & Milani and Cristian Marchi with Luciana - I Got My Eyes On You (Chuckie Remix)
Yolanda be Cool & DCUP - We no speak Americano (Chuckie & METI Remix)
Pendulum - Witchcraft (Chuckie Remix)
Pitbull ft Enrique Iglesias - I Like it (Chuckie remix)
Lil Jon ft Claude Kelly - Oh What a Night (Chuckie Remix)
Mohombi - Bumpy Ride (Chuckie Remix)
Enrique Iglesias Feat. Ludacris - Tonight (Chuckie Remix)
3OH!3 Feat. Kesha - First Kiss (Chuckie Remix)
Michael Jackson - Hollywood Tonight (Chuckie Remix/Dub)
The Saturdays - Notorious (Chuckie Remix)
Jean Roch feat. Flo Rida & Kat Deluna - I'm Alright (Chuckie Remix)
Bassment Jaxx - Where's Your Head At (Chuckie Cold Blank Mash Up)
Erick Morillo & Eddie Thoneick feat. Shawnee Taylor - Stronger (Chuckie & Gregori Klosman Remix)
Marina & The Diamonds - Radioactive (Chuckie Remix)


now I think you should just shut the fuck up and take the video for what it is. A demonstation on how to integrate vocals over and a top a track.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Sorry Ryan, I can't actually tell whether you do it on purpose or your taste is really that bad. That video is like a gross caricature of everything that is wrong with music. I don't really know where to start and I'm seriously perplexed that of all the videos out there showing sample chop ups, you think it's a good example of it.

Are you indirectly dissing Tranceport? Not Tranceport 2, the original.

Seeing Oakie dancing to that beat... hurts eyes.

I believe he used o hold the record for longest coke line until sheen smashed the record this year. The last person to hold it was Rick James so ya,

Ryan you do realize okenfoald has not made a single record or mix without the help of someone that actually knows what he is doing.

He's gonna kick your ass =)

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN�

Gee, thanks DJRYAN� for telling me who this Paul Oakenfold fellow is! It's not like I've seen him 20-30 times between 1994 and 2000 (when he actaully played decent music) or anything. Or that I've actually met him a few times, or that I don't own about 50% of his 90's catalogue on vinyl. Glad you explained that all to me.

Gald you informed me who this Chuckie chap is too. Is he as good as that French gentleman Mr. Guetta? oooooh, I see they've worked together. That music must be wonderful. And that Pitbull as well - so that confirms it, this Chickie must be the second coming of Beethoven and Wagner rolled in to one. Can't wait to peruse his astounding body of work. I doubt I'll ever be able to hear music in the same way again after I'm exposed to this level of compositional greatness.

Thanks Ryan. So happy you're here to enlighten us as to what is good dance music. I had a feeling your taste would be exquisitely refined from your previous posts and select choice of tasteful avatar.

Please do continue to educate us simpletons on the wonder of such outstanding musical creativity. I just found out about this new band, the "swedish house maffia" (though i can't imagine they're really criminals) - maybe you could tell me all about them?

he could win every costume contest on the planet as Austin Powers. He looks like myers' doppleganger in that video.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney he could win every costume contest on the planet as Austin Powers. He looks like myers' doppleganger in that video.

just noticed that... haha

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.