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EQing & mixing Trance synths?

Hey guys! This is my first post here, hope we'll get along nicely
I started producing a year ago or so and still progress every week, it's fantastic. But one thing still bugs me every time: Some synth sounds seem to involve only unpleasant frequencies.
To understand the problem I'm having you have to understand how I work: When it comes to EQ I always use the 'sweep method' where I boost a frequency and sweep through the spectrum with a really high Q. When something sounds unpleasant I lower the Q a bit an put the gain down. Sometimes I also notch out whole frequencies, but of course with a high Q.

Some sounds just sound unpleasant in every frequency, so I don't know how to EQ them. Most of the time this happens with trance synths (pretty obvious, huh). So for example when I use a saw from the Nexus (or some others synths) it always sounds bad when I sweep through the spectrum. It also sounds bad in the mix because only lowcutting doesn't solve all mud problems. How to make a sound like that sitting nicely in the mix & sounding good? I know about reverb, I also know about giving sounds space in the spectrum and so on, but that doesn't solve anything when the sound is bad.

Re: EQing & mixing Trance synths?

quote:

Originally posted by trunk I know about reverb, I also know about giving sounds space in the spectrum and so on, but that doesn't solve anything when the sound is bad.

Well, if this doesn't solve it, the only thing that remains you is to pray hoping in the heavenly mercy. What do you think about that?

Re: Re: EQing & mixing Trance synths?

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation Well, if this doesn't solve it, the only thing that remains you is to pray hoping in the heavenly mercy. What do you think about that?

Edit: I know about reverb, I also know about giving sounds space in the spectrum and so on, but that doesn't solve anything when the source sound is bad.

Find a better source sound. You're just wasting your time trying to fix a bad sound with tools that are designed to make good sounds, sound better. And yes, you kind of answered your own question.

Broader q's tend to sound more musical, high q's are generally for surgical treatment such as removing a nasty room resonance, etc.

I was taught that when boosting try to use broader q's, of course this rule like any in audio can be broken if the end result works, in audio the ends definitely justifies the means. Most pro's use broader q's for boosting and smaller for cutting. Again, just guidelines.

You need to learn what certain areas of the frequency spectrum do to a sounds tone and character. For example, to warm up an electric gtr a starting boost point area would be around 300hz.

Simply sweeping through the entire spectrum can be dangerous because a lot of the time people get confused in identifying the bad sounding freq' with the loudest, they'll often pull out the loudest freq which is usually that instruments fundamental freq or 2 or 3rd harmonic.

There are plenty of charts on the net that describe what certain parts of the freq spectrum do to an instrument, particular parts of the spectrum dont always have the same result on different instruments.

have a read of this:
http://recordingwebsite.com/articles/eqprimer.php

Another:
http://www.digitalprosound.com/2002...ng_excerpt1.htm

cheers,

also, try to get into the habit of eq'ing an instrument while the whole song is playing, you'll find many times that your eq settings may be different to what you usually do but if it sounds good, it doesnt matter where those knobs are sitting.

Thank you! Let's see how I can implement all this into my workflow. I always thought these kind of frequency charts were rubbish & only for i.e. rock bands. But after reading these pages I think it's worth a shot

Also, remember to shift things up an octave or down an octave or choose different notes that will not conflict with other sounds at a particular frequency. A note is really a concentrated sound set at a particular frequency. EQ doesn't always solve the problem, because if the problem lies in that the note's frequency is interfering with other sounds, then you simply have to pick different notes.

J.L makes a good point. Simply shifting a part up or down an octave can alter the balance, even panning has an effect on how well things are heard.

Also, when constructing a song think about which synth parts NEED to be in stereo and which ones can do without.

And you dont always have to use stereo effects, mono effects can work also work well.

The charts may be tailored for conventional musical instruments but the information can still be applied.

what I don't understand is if a sound sounds unpleasant regardless of the eqing then why are you using it? And if it takes massive amounts of eqing in order to get it to sound audible, why not just start with something that sounds decent to begin with? I never start eqing anything until the synth sounds good. Its like polishing shit. No matter how much you shine it, its still shit.

Anyways, take no offense to my little blurb above. It just didn't make sense to me when I read it. I was like wth would someone want to eq something when no matter what it still sounds bad?

Good luck to you and your turd polishing.

Well, that was the problem! When using sounds directly from my Nexus, it sounds bad. Really sharp heights and often with a really muddy low end - no matter what sound I use. Thats part of that 'fat' sound...
But now I know how to treat that sounds, and yes DJRYAN�, you can't polish shit thats true. If I cant get a sound right within a certain amount of time, I just use another one. My problem was that I coudn't believe that EVERY sound is bad. But again, now I know how to handle it.

Sorry again. I guess that didn't come out being nice, and I try to be a nice guy. What I meant to say was most of my synths had the harsh sound too until I figured out that layering synths covering a variety of different frequencies provided not only the fullness I was looking for, but also eliminated a lot of that harsh tones I was hearing.

Take this song as an example.

Virtual Reality (Original Mix) by DJRYAN�

Now I know its not the best example. The entire song is revealed within the first few seconds. Which, I know, is kinda fubar'd but, regardless, my concentration was (like yours) to eliminate the harshness that I was hearing through a lot of my (trance) tracks.

In order to solve the problem. I created three different synths covering three different channels within my mixer. I tuned not only the key of which notes were being played e.g: E3, E2, E4, but also each oscilators octave. That cleaned it up pretty nicely.

But then I went back in and also eq'd all three tracks as well as played them independently of the bass and drums while cleaning up frequencies and some more of those harsh tones. Then I played all three with the bass, and finally with the drums making sure that everything fit nicely.

Now keep in mind, I'm no expert, but I did think this was a huge leap compared to other tracks I've created in the past.

I hope this helps.

Yes this helps indeed, thank you! So it's 'just' EQ and layering I have to master.

To learn how to mix i'd definitely learn to mix things without using any eq/filter (use different octaves, counterpoint sounds and sidechain...) and when everything sounds fine use eq/filters to polish everything

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN� Sorry again. I guess that didn't come out being nice, and I try to be a nice guy. What I meant to say was most of my synths had the harsh sound too until I figured out that layering synths covering a variety of different frequencies provided not only the fullness I was looking for, but also eliminated a lot of that harsh tones I was hearing. Take this song as an example. Virtual Reality (Original Mix) by DJRYAN� Now I know its not the best example. The entire song is revealed within the first few seconds. Which, I know, is kinda fubar'd but, regardless, my concentration was (like yours) to eliminate the harshness that I was hearing through a lot of my (trance) tracks. In order to solve the problem. I created three different synths covering three different channels within my mixer. I tuned not only the key of which notes were being played e.g: E3, E2, E4, but also each oscilators octave. That cleaned it up pretty nicely. But then I went back in and also eq'd all three tracks as well as played them independently of the bass and drums while cleaning up frequencies and some more of those harsh tones. Then I played all three with the bass, and finally with the drums making sure that everything fit nicely. Now keep in mind, I'm no expert, but I did think this was a huge leap compared to other tracks I've created in the past. I hope this helps.

you over eqd your leads that they have no middle of middle low and sound lifeless. A good example on what not to do. It sounded incredibly harsh. IF you are going to post your own work, try not to make it suck. I honestly don't understand how you could post this as a demonstration in EQ. I mean how do you manage to fuck up so few elements. Classic rookie mistake to highpass everything without thinking about what you are doing.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Find a better source sound. You're just wasting your time trying to fix a bad sound with tools that are designed to make good sounds, sound better. And yes, you kind of answered your own question.

Exactly, chose sounds that fit together without much eq. Try change the octave too...

"Your listening to a Dj Ryan promo"


wtf is that all about??

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 "Your listening to a Dj Ryan promo" wtf is that all about??

I don't know but now I can't record that mix from its embed to play it out at my local big time clob. People will know I stole it. Unless...









Does anyone know how to get rid of vocals from a track?

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Unless... Does anyone know how to get rid of vocals from a track?

LMAO!!

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney you over eqd your leads that they have no middle of middle low and sound lifeless. A good example on what not to do. It sounded incredibly harsh. IF you are going to post your own work, try not to make it suck. I honestly don't understand how you could post this as a demonstration in EQ. I mean how do you manage to fuck up so few elements. Classic rookie mistake to highpass everything without thinking about what you are doing.

im positive Dj ryan is going for the rebecca black approach.

to be perfectly honest I thought that these synths sounded a helluva lot better than anything I had done before.

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN� to be perfectly honest I thought that these synths sounded a helluva lot better than anything I had done before.

meh, they're okay, and thinking back to the other stuff you've posted before it is improvement. They do sound awfully thin considering how minimal your arrangement is though. If you listen to a lot of old school hardstyle, you'll see that minimal arrangement usually calls for thicker sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by DJRYAN� to be perfectly honest I thought that these synths sounded a helluva lot better than anything I had done before.

Yes I'll give you that ryan I do agree, shame its the same thing played over and over for 5 mins.

ryan you are nice guy. I wish you would ditch the douchery and ego bullshit and I could nice to you. IT hurts me more than it hurts you. Or at least let me know you are mocking all that shit you seem to stand for. If that is the case let me know. Because it is just way too convincing. I am torn.

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 Yes I'll give you that ryan I do agree, shame its the same thing played over and over for 5 mins.

It's super brittle. How about a mid layer somewhere?

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