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Penn state, Paterno

This has been all over the msm all week. So what do you think? Was he helping a pedo or did he do all that he can do?





And I know the jokes are gonna come but just to tell you igk already messaged me saying it was the 10 year olds fault for leading him on.

Of course he didn't do all he could do.
The allegations were brought to him years ago and rather than investigate or forward it to someone with the authority to do so, he merely forwarded the claims to someone with less authority than him at the school even. He sought to sweep it under the rug, plain and simple.

he's scum. and all of the kids who are mindlessly defending him, rioting even, and using slogans like 'we are penn state' are totally brain dead. just making themselves and their school look bad.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights Of course he didn't do all he could do. The allegations were brought to him years ago and rather than investigate or forward it to someone with the authority to do so, he merely forwarded the claims to someone with less authority than him at the school even. He sought to sweep it under the rug, plain and simple. he's scum. and all of the kids who are mindlessly defending him, rioting even, and using slogans like 'we are penn state' are totally brain dead. just making themselves and their school look bad.

You're quite misinformed. He forwarded the info to the Athletic Director (more authority than him) and the Senior VP for Finance and Business, (who happened to also be the head of campus police). He did exactly what he was supposed to do as required by law, he passed the information to his superiors. He's not a detective, he's a football coach, and shouldn't be expected to investigate an alleged crime. If the issue happened on University property, it's the administration's responsibility to handle it, not the head football coach.

And "we are penn state" has been used for decades, it's not something new.

People are quick to judge a man who has donated millions of dollars to that school, has a library named after him on campus, and has been a beacon of sportsmanship and humanitarianism for the past 50 years. How many coaches do you know who have statues erected in their honor outside their stadium while they're still the coach there.

Over 50 years coaching and not a single NCAA violation. Consistently one of the highest graduation rates among Division 1 sports. The guy pretty much dedicated his whole life to that school, and then gets fired over the phone with 3 games left in the season because of an action that was questionable at worst.

There's also a lot of ambiguity as to what the graduate assistant actually said to Paterno. From what I've heard, it was nowhere near as graphic as the testimony he gave to the grand jury. The better question is why the person who witnessed this happen didn't do anything to stop it, or go to the police himself. He was 28, it's not like he was a kid.

All of this disdain towards Paterno is completely misplaced, imo.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights Of course he didn't do all he could do. The allegations were brought to him years ago and rather than investigate or forward it to someone with the authority to do so, he merely forwarded the claims to someone with less authority than him at the school even. He sought to sweep it under the rug, plain and simple. he's scum. and all of the kids who are mindlessly defending him, rioting even, and using slogans like 'we are penn state' are totally brain dead. just making themselves and their school look bad.

I agree. It just surprises me when I see students & fans on tv praising him. I think the assistant coach that seen Sandusky in the shower playing with a 10 year old is also as guilty as Paterno if not more. I really can't understand how after seeing a situation like that someone would choose to stay quiet.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 You're quite misinformed. He forwarded the info to the Athletic Director (more authority than him) and the Senior VP for Finance and Business, (who happened to also be the head of campus police). He did exactly what he was supposed to do as required by law, he passed the information to his superiors. And "we are penn state" has been used for decades, it's not something new.

Somewhat instructive to Stanley Milgram's experiments on evil (I know - no such thing) & authority. This reverses the dynamics somewhat as the person, who informed to a person in authority over them, refrained from escalating the matter when it was clear that nothing had happened as a result. Still, it proves Milgram's point which was that most people will concede their own morals to higher authority.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights and all of the kids who are mindlessly defending him, rioting even, and using slogans like 'we are penn state' are totally brain dead. just making themselves and their school look bad.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

-George Carlin


And yes, Paterno definitely deserved to be fired.

There's no excuse, no matter how God-like of a statue you have at an institution, to merely do the bare minimum of reporting something of such severity as raping children.

The president at PSU was fired as well, but what the fuck is Mike McQueary (the guy who witnessed one of the alleged rapes) still doing with a job?

Hey guys, OrangestO rapes children.

If any of you don't immediately go to the police with this information, you're all to blame.

I saw him do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Hey guys, OrangestO rapes children. If any of you don't immediately go to the police with this information, you're all to blame.

Actually, if you've actually seen this happen then you are actually obliged to actually report it your actual self, actually.









To the actual authorities, actually.

Well then, I'd better go to the police with these utterly unsubstantiated claims, undoubtedly ruining the reputation of the accused without actually having seen it myself, or even being able to prove somebody else saw something.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Actually, if you've actually seen this happen then you are actually obliged to actually report it your actual self, actually. To the actual authorities, actually.

Oh no, I didn't see it. Somebody else saw it. Pass it on!

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Well then, I'd better go to the police with these utterly unsubstantiated claims, undoubtedly ruining the reputation of the accused without actually having seen it myself, or even being able to prove somebody else saw something.

You'd be a hero, though! Everyone wants to be a hero, right?

Russell do you really think the athletic director has more power than paterno at penn state? you're the one that's misinformed if you believe that. paterno has more sway at that place than anyone in the university. if he wanted the issue to be handled, he would have.

By going through what you consider to be 'the proper channels' all he was doing was washing his hands of the issue, nothing more. "Well, at least now I won't be the one to blame. Let's play some football."

As for his philanthropy - I don't think that does a whole lot for his name. These sorts of situations speak a whole lot louder than that. The guy has a lot of money, and he's a big part of the school. ANYBODY in that situation would have strong PR and be known for philanthropy as a result of that.

While what was actually said to him is still ambiguous at this point, and likely will remain so, it still stands to reason that he was a POWERFUL man there and if he wanted to look into it, if he wanted to learn the truth, he would and could have. He should have. Instead, he put the program first and either knew the truth and hid it or didn't want to know the truth.

I just don't think there's any scenario that can be brought forth as evidence that Paterno did no wrong, so as to clear his name of this. Even if he had only a vague idea that 'something bad happened' then he had a responsibility to act.

The guy was hailed as a humanitarian.

What humanitarian doesn't make sure someone who is sodomizing children is locked up and prevented from causing any further harm?

Oh, right, it's Joe Pa, so we should let it slide.

Fuck that.

He put the interest of his precious program first, instead of doing what everyone would have expected him to do in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights Russell do you really think the athletic director has more power than paterno at penn state? you're the one that's misinformed if you believe that. paterno has more sway at that place than anyone in the university. if he wanted the issue to be handled, he would have. By going through what you consider to be 'the proper channels' all he was doing was washing his hands of the issue, nothing more. "Well, at least now I won't be the one to blame. Let's play some football." As for his philanthropy - I don't think that does a whole lot for his name. These sorts of situations speak a whole lot louder than that. The guy has a lot of money, and he's a big part of the school. ANYBODY in that situation would have strong PR and be known for philanthropy as a result of that. While what was actually said to him is still ambiguous at this point, and likely will remain so, it still stands to reason that he was a POWERFUL man there and if he wanted to look into it, if he wanted to learn the truth, he would and could have. He should have. Instead, he put the program first and either knew the truth and hid it or didn't want to know the truth.

That's all a testament to the fact that if he had spoken up about it at all, people would have taken his word that much more seriously.

The mere act of accusing someone of sexual assault is enough to damn them, no matter if they're guilty or not, especially when it comes from a source of authority. He knew this.

You have to be extremely careful in these situations, and he probably made the wisest decision to tell his official superiors of it before going to the police directly, without any evidence or even witness testimony, himself.

It's the same reason we all give IGK so much shit about being a kiddy fiddler, despite the fact that not a one of us has a shred of evidence to support it:

We don't give a fuck about him or his reputation.

He did not handle it seriously. Unless we learn that Penn State financed an exhaustive investigation into the matter, then he did not handle it seriously. It is a very serious situation, so of course a public accusation would have been cruel, but the matter could have been illuminated behind closed doors beforehand. It obviously wasn't.

Also...in any other facet of life when such claims emerge, appropriate measures are taken immediately. A forced leave of absence while the issue was sorted out was certainly in order. Publicly that could have been attributed to any number of things - positive things, so as to keep any suspicion or rumors out of the equation.

Well I definitely agree the administration should have investigated. Maybe they even did, but you'd think we would have found that out by now.

I'm just saying it's not right to incriminate him with aiding a pedophile, like he was withholding information from anyone. Of course, all that's happened to him is he was fired, but it's not as though he'll be living on the street or anything.

i didn't know about this angle until earlier today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45244328/

this case may go beyond child molestation.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights Russell do you really think the athletic director has more power than paterno at penn state? you're the one that's misinformed if you believe that. paterno has more sway at that place than anyone in the university. if he wanted the issue to be handled, he would have. By going through what you consider to be 'the proper channels' all he was doing was washing his hands of the issue, nothing more. "Well, at least now I won't be the one to blame. Let's play some football." As for his philanthropy - I don't think that does a whole lot for his name. These sorts of situations speak a whole lot louder than that. The guy has a lot of money, and he's a big part of the school. ANYBODY in that situation would have strong PR and be known for philanthropy as a result of that. While what was actually said to him is still ambiguous at this point, and likely will remain so, it still stands to reason that he was a POWERFUL man there and if he wanted to look into it, if he wanted to learn the truth, he would and could have. He should have. Instead, he put the program first and either knew the truth and hid it or didn't want to know the truth.

It's actually what the state law of Pennsylvania considers "proper channels." Paterno being more well known doesn't mean he has more power. The AD could fire Paterno, Paterno couldn't fire the AD. Paterno.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights He did not handle it seriously. Unless we learn that Penn State financed an exhaustive investigation into the matter, then he did not handle it seriously. It is a very serious situation, so of course a public accusation would have been cruel, but the matter could have been illuminated behind closed doors beforehand. It obviously wasn't.

It's not his responsibility to handle it. He was a football coach.











A football coach.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights Also...in any other facet of life when such claims emerge, appropriate measures are taken immediately. A forced leave of absence while the issue was sorted out was certainly in order. Publicly that could have been attributed to any number of things - positive things, so as to keep any suspicion or rumors out of the equation.

A forced leave of absence from retirement? Sandusky had retired 3 years before the allegations.

idk how it's so difficult for you to grasp this. When somebody comes to you with an accusation against somebody that's so serious and you are in a position of power, a position from which you can resolve the issue, you take the charge and do it. how could you go on working with the guy?? he wasn't just 'a football coach'
i can't tell if you're trolling or are just daft


p.s. football is stupid, college sports are lame, etc etc etc /rant

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