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-- Does alcohol really cause bad behavior?

Does alcohol really cause bad behavior?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317

COR version: alcohol does not directly cause behavior like aggression, promiscuity, and general dis-inhibition. Rather, cultural notions about the "power" of alcohol do. People will exhibit these same "drunken" behaviors when given placebo "alcohol."

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The effects of alcohol on behaviour are determined by cultural rules and norms, not by the chemical actions of ethanol. There is enormous cross-cultural variation in the way people behave when they drink alcohol. There are some societies (such as the UK, the US, Australia and parts of Scandinavia) that anthropologists call "ambivalent" drinking-cultures, where drinking is associated with disinhibition, aggression, promiscuity, violence and anti-social behaviour. There are other societies (such as Latin and Mediterranean cultures in particular, but in fact the vast majority of cultures), where drinking is not associated with these undesirable behaviours - cultures where alcohol is just a morally neutral, normal, integral part of ordinary, everyday life - about on a par with, say, coffee or tea. These are known as "integrated" drinking cultures. This variation cannot be attributed to different levels of consumption - most integrated drinking cultures have significantly higher per-capita alcohol consumption than the ambivalent drinking cultures. Instead the variation is clearly related to different cultural beliefs about alcohol, different expectations about the effects of alcohol, and different social rules about drunken comportment. This basic fact has been proved time and again, not just in qualitative cross-cultural research, but also in carefully controlled scientific experiments - double-blind, placebos and all. To put it very simply, the experiments show that when people think they are drinking alcohol, they behave according to their cultural beliefs about the behavioural effects of alcohol. The British and other ambivalent drinking cultures believe that alcohol is a disinhibitor, and specifically that it makes people amorous or aggressive, so when in these experiments we are given what we think are alcoholic drinks - but are in fact non-alcoholic "placebos" - we shed our inhibitions. We become more outspoken, more physically demonstrative, more flirtatious, and, given enough provocation, some (young males in particular) become aggressive. Quite specifically, those who most strongly believe that alcohol causes aggression are the most likely to become aggressive when they think that they have consumed alcohol. Our beliefs about the effects of alcohol act as self-fulfilling prophecies - if you firmly believe and expect that booze will make you aggressive, then it will do exactly that. In fact, you will be able to get roaring drunk on a non-alcoholic placebo. And our erroneous beliefs provide the perfect excuse for anti-social behaviour. If alcohol "causes" bad behaviour, then you are not responsible for your bad behaviour. You can blame the booze - "it was the drink talking", "I was not myself" and so on. But it is possible to change our drinking culture. Cultural shifts happen all the time, and there is extensive evidence (again from carefully controlled experiments, conducted in natural settings such as bars and nightclubs) to show that it doesn't take much to effect dramatic changes in how people behave when they drink. These experiments show that even when people are very drunk, if they are given an incentive (either financial reward or even just social approval) they are perfectly capable of remaining in complete control of their behaviour - of behaving as though they were totally sober.

More at the link.

Due to the way alcohol affects the brain, after say one or two glasses of wine, your cognitive barriers are diminishing, thus making you take actions with less hesitations. Therefore, one could say that your true self is revealed when your being mildly intoxicated by this substance.

Naturally, one's true self varies from person to person, so the effect two glasses of wine has on you should also vary from person to person. One individual could become peaceful, or more childish, or more talk-active, or more aggressive after the intoxication. So how you behave after sipping booze, that behaviour says more about you than what it does about the alcohol itself.

That's why I never drink.

Interesting read.


Sociology 100

tldr

Alcohol does not make people say stupid shit or do stupid shit. It just makes people more impulsive, but their acting out is always from an underlying problem in their lives.

attention fags.

Good article. Helps explain why the kids I know who never once drank before they became 21 (and were told their entire lives that alcohol was terrible) go fucking batshit when they drink.

The article still doesn't explain hangovers. Do the same conclusions apply to drunk driving, as well?

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Originally posted by Lews Good article. Helps explain why the kids I know who never once drank before they became 21 (and were told their entire lives that alcohol was terrible) go fucking batshit when they drink.

I have to admit to being one of these assholes.

I think people use alcohol as a proxy to be a douchebag etc. People just let their reptilian brains take over.

I don't think kids who never drank until they were 21 go batshit, I never drank until I was like 23 cause I hated the smell of beer. I don't go batshit at all because I like to think I have control over my reptilian part of my brain. I don't like the 99% of drinks that occupy the set alcohol, but I do love the elite 1% that occupies my mouth. I still think alcohol is terrible.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker The article still doesn't explain hangovers. Do the same conclusions apply to drunk driving, as well?

Why would it need to "explain" hangovers? A hangover is just a physical aftereffect, and the article acknowledges some effects of alcohol in physical and cognitive dimensions. But the takeaway is that the cultural mythology surrounding alcohol -- that it actually turns people into monsters or morons or sluts -- is what causes so many of the problems surrounding it, because it effectively gives people an excuse to let fly with their id. An excuse that many of them latch onto quite readily.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker The article still doesn't explain hangovers. Do the same conclusions apply to drunk driving, as well?

I think the article was talking mostly about behavior that we would consider "acting out." Not about actual motor skills, since clearly alcohol inhibits those, which leads fatal car accidents.

It seems that alcohol lowers our normal inhibition controls (making people more impulsive, etc), and then they act how they think people who are drunk act.

I've definitely seen stuff like this in person. A year or two ago at a party we were giving one person shots of water with just a touch of vodka on top to try to limit him getting drunk, but he was acting like a fucking cocksucker all the same, after about 8. People act how they think they're supposed to act, and this article is saying that people think they are supposed to act stupid and that is why they do.

So much of the alcohol experience is mental and depends on so many different factors.



Hangovers are caused by too much drinking, Eddie

And the perfect cure is to drink one cup of water (before you go to sleep) for every drink you've had. In the morning, take two ibuprofen, a B12 pill, wash those down with a morning cocktail, and you'll be perfect

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Originally posted by Vector A Why would it need to "explain" hangovers? A hangover is just a physical aftereffect, and the article acknowledges some effects of alcohol in physical and cognitive dimensions. But the takeaway is that the cultural mythology surrounding alcohol -- that it actually turns people into monsters or morons or sluts -- is what causes so many of the problems surrounding it, because it effectively gives people an excuse to let fly with their id. An excuse that many of them latch onto quite readily.

I actually agree with it. Not that I'll ever drink, again, but it does seem like a lot of people who act out use booze as a license for atrocious behavior. I think I've proved that you don't need booze to be a hair-splitting asshole, though.

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Originally posted by Lews Hangovers are caused by too much drinking, Eddie And the perfect cure is to drink one cup of water (before you go to sleep) for every drink you've had. In the morning, take two ibuprofen, a B12 pill, wash those down with a morning cocktail, and you'll be perfect

1) True

2) I've tried this, taking hot showers before going to bed, Ibuprofen before going to bed, and even burnt toast (not before going to bed) with Ibuprofen in the morning. Bloody Mary's always worked a little for a little while, but they don't mix well with work hours.

A few points.

1. "These experiments show that even when people are very drunk, if they are given an incentive (either financial reward or even just social approval) they are perfectly capable of remaining in complete control of their behaviour - of behaving as though they were totally sober."

Has the author of this article never seen anyone try (and fail) to act sober in front of bouncers or police?

2. "This variation cannot be attributed to different levels of consumption - most integrated drinking cultures have significantly higher per-capita alcohol consumption than the ambivalent drinking cultures."

I'd say that drinking is more spread across the average person's day in these cultures. The article compares alcohol to coffee in these countries - who ever drinks 12 cups of coffee in one go?

This article clearly exaggerates a very basic point (people use alcohol as an excuse) into the suggestion that the effects of alcohol on the brain have nothing to do with changes in behaviour. It's a drug, albeit a legalised, systemised and mild one.

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This basic fact has been proved time and again, not just in qualitative cross-cultural research, but also in carefully controlled scientific experiments - double-blind, placebos and all.

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double-blind, placebos and all.

Oh, you know, double-blind, placebos and all that. Sounds legit.

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even when you are drunk, you are in control of and have total responsibility for your actions and behaviour.

Do agree with this though

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Originally posted by Lews Hangovers are caused by too much drinking, Eddie And the perfect cure is to drink one cup of water (before you go to sleep) for every drink you've had. In the morning, take two ibuprofen, a B12 pill, wash those down with a morning cocktail, and you'll be perfect

I've always found that a couple of painkillers (aspirin, tylenol, ibuprofen... whatever's available) and a cup of coffee works wonders after the nights where I forget the water. But I've always been boring like that

it would be better to not take tylenol (acetaminophen) after a night of drinking.
acetaminophen is hard on the liver, and so is alcohol, but worse is the fact that alcohol inhibits the enzyme that the liver uses to metabolize the acetaminophen and excrete it from the body.

COR version- acetaminophen gives your liver a double-whammie when drinking.

ibuprofen with some food (even toast), is much better.
gatorade, powerade, or V8 juice and a multivitamin later works wonders.

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Originally posted by VAR it would be better to not take tylenol (acetaminophen) after a night of drinking. acetaminophen is hard on the liver, and so is alcohol, but worse is the fact that alcohol inhibits the enzyme that the liver uses to metabolize the acetaminophen and excrete it from the body. COR version- acetaminophen gives your liver a double-whammie when drinking. ibuprofen with some food (even toast), is much better. gatorade, powerade, or V8 juice and a multivitamin later works wonders.

That's actually a very good point that I knew, but hadn't consciously thought of in combination with the load on the liver combined with alcohol. I won't be doing that again.

I don't actually take acetaminophen all that often. Ibuprofen is my preferred painkiller. But I use painkillers so infrequently that if I run out, I don't buy a new bottle right away. So sometimes I don't have the Advil kickin around, and Tylenol is the only other thing I have in the house.

Some are funny drunks, others aren't.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J 2. "This variation cannot be attributed to different levels of consumption - most integrated drinking cultures have significantly higher per-capita alcohol consumption than the ambivalent drinking cultures." I'd say that drinking is more spread across the average person's day in these cultures. The article compares alcohol to coffee in these countries - who ever drinks 12 cups of coffee in one go?

Not only that, but there are likely very many more non-drinkers in "ambivalent drinking cultures," which means that those who actually do drink may consume substantially more while still keeping the "per-capita" consumption at a lower level. The idea that per-capita consumption is somehow the proper measure suggests a frighteningly shallow understanding of the topic.

It's a shame, because I think there's probably a significant amount of truth to what the author is arguing, but lazy reasoning like that really torpedoes the article's credibility.

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