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-- General Advice/Tips Wanted (Any Professionals Out There???)
General Advice/Tips Wanted (Any Professionals Out There???)
I havn't posted a new thread for a while because lately I have been too busy practicing my trance producing skills. So now I'm back, and I'm asking one general and possibly hard to answer question.
What would simply be the best piece of advice that you could give a 14 year old producer thats been going at it for 9 months???
I know that this might sound like a stupid question, but what I mean is, if you could go back in time to when you first started producing and you were able to tell past-you one or two pieces of advice, to do with ANY part of music producing, what would they be???
Please only answer if you have something useful to say instead of complaining about how weird a question this is, because I'm really wanting to take this seriously now and see how far I can go.
Just as a rough guideline of my current skill level, here's a track that I'm currently working on, it's my 5th ever trance track.
Work In Progress (Trance) by MIKE333ACE
Cheers. 
BTW, If there's anyone kind out there that thinks they could spend a small amount of time giving this a professional feel, I would happily send the flp file as it would benefit my learning greatly.
I think you've got a lot of basics down already. Based on a very quick listen it seems you grasp the song structure and tension buildups decently. However your mixdown is severely lacking.
The entire track sound very very muffled. My advice would be to find a (professional) track of similar style and listen to it well, try to find a similar balance between the elements in your track as in the reference track and your track will improve tons.
Do you have any bass in your soundsystem? The low frequencies are so overwhelming compared to the higher ones! Really something you need to be aware of!
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| Originally posted by Storyteller I think you've got a lot of basics down already. Based on a very quick listen it seems you grasp the song structure and tension buildups decently. However your mixdown is severely lacking. The entire track sound very very muffled. My advice would be to find a (professional) track of similar style and listen to it well, try to find a similar balance between the elements in your track as in the reference track and your track will improve tons. |
| quote: |
| Do you have any bass in your soundsystem? The low frequencies are so overwhelming compared to the higher ones! Really something you need to be aware of! |
Let's just say my listening equipment is adequate .
Good luck with the earphones, I'm positive it will make the improvements the track needs that much easier.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Storyteller Let's just say my listening equipment is adequate .Good luck with the earphones, I'm positive it will make the improvements the track needs that much easier. |
1st step: Start to work the mix from scratch again
2nd step: Remvoe any multiband compression from master channel(try to keep it as clean as posible)
3rd step: Try to set for the 1st time the levels of the channels without any FX on them.
4th step: Use the EQ not only to boost the nice sounding freq but also to cut freq that you don't need in some sounds to make place for the other sounds, this is one of the ways to achieve a clearer mix.(ex: remove the lows from percussion samples to leave more room for kick/bass)
5th step: LCR mix, watch this if you don't know what is that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDp8rsdmdEE
6th step and one of the most important: Learn your speakers/headphones, once you do that you won't have to many problems with your mixes :-), as a headphone user you may try to check the levels from time to time in mono or on another systems, a good mix sounds good even on shit 4$ office speakers.
Maybe some other TA users can complete me or correct me, if I am wrong with something.
if i had to my 14 year old self trying to produce music anything then, it would be to stop messing around with loops and start trying to write music. with that said, seems you're already past that point. just keep trying, and try to finish every project you start - even if it's not label quality. it's a great learning experience and your work rate will increase with each project you finish.
the teller of stories nailed it. with crappy listening situations, the idea should be to reference your tracks on everything in comparison to songs you know represent the sound well.
ALSO, to the 14 year old me: have your parents buy you nice monitors and acoustic treatment instead of any other luxuries. acquire job to pay for everything else.
Oh by the way:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...0&forumid=74&s=
Crossposting (opening several topics on the same subject) is not allowed on TranceAddict. I suggest you close the other topic from which I posted the link since this one got some valuable comments already.
Remember to have fun, don't listen to people that say you will not make it, be original (learn from others, but use it in your own way).
As long as you'll keep the motivation, everything else will come along the way.
And yeah, your song is really bass heavy. When u lowcut a bass for example, that doesn't mean you take away the power, many times you get more power because you get rid of those low freqs that muds everything up. This takes some experience, you don't want to take away to much either.
And the same goes with pads and leads and so on, so yes, a pair of Monitors are pretty important. It's not easy to make the right decisions when you can't hear what you are deciding about.
But for now if I were you, I would have just kept producing as much as possible.
Lots of good advice, particularly Constantin's. My additional advice to a 14-yo "trance producer" would be:
- learn to play an instrument. Take lessons from a good teacher. Piano/keys is the obvious choice since it is the de facto standard in music production and composition, but guitar is a good second choice. Both of these instruments allow you to play both solos and chords, so they will be more useful for learning music theory than something like a saxaphone or trumpet is.
- learn some music theory. You don't need a degree and you will pick up a ton of music theory when learning an instrument, assuming that you have a decent instructor.
- work on your ear-training skills. Being able hear and quickly figure out what is going on in another song is an invaluable skill to have. As you learn your instrument, spend time learning songs of all styles and sharpen your ability to hear chord progressions, melody intervals, etc.
These three skills are closely aligned and you will find that there is a lot of overlap between them. Getting up to speed on them, especially at your age, will put you leagues ahead of the pack down the road. Trust me, the gap between amateur and pro on the technical side of music production is pretty narrow because much of that can be learned quickly through tutorials. The artistic side (playing, composing, arranging) takes many years to master, so get at it while you're young.
One final bit of advice would be this: be sure to keep some depth and breadth in your production skills. Focus on trance, since that's your favorite, but become a student to the process of production and composition by studying a wide variety of popular/dance music. In other words, don't restrain yourself by trying to sound exactly like a handful of artists, like so many young trance producers seem to do.
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| Originally posted by cryophonik Lots of good advice, particularly Constantin's. My additional advice to a 14-yo "trance producer" would be: - learn to play an instrument. Take lessons from a good teacher. Piano/keys is the obvious choice since it is the de facto standard in music production and composition, but guitar is a good second choice. Both of these instruments allow you to play both solos and chords, so they will be more useful for learning music theory than something like a saxaphone or trumpet is. - learn some music theory. You don't need a degree and you will pick up a ton of music theory when learning an instrument, assuming that you have a decent instructor. - work on your ear-training skills. Being able hear and quickly figure out what is going on in another song is an invaluable skill to have. As you learn your instrument, spend time learning songs of all styles and sharpen your ability to hear chord progressions, melody intervals, etc. These three skills are closely aligned and you will find that there is a lot of overlap between them. Getting up to speed on them, especially at your age, will put you leagues ahead of the pack down the road. Trust me, the gap between amateur and pro on the technical side of music production is pretty narrow because much of that can be learned quickly through tutorials. The artistic side (playing, composing, arranging) takes many years to master, so get at it while you're young. One final bit of advice would be this: be sure to keep some depth and breadth in your production skills. Focus on trance, since that's your favorite, but become a student to the process of production and composition by studying a wide variety of popular/dance music. In other words, don't restrain yourself by trying to sound exactly like a handful of artists, like so many young trance producers seem to do. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Constantin 5th step: LCR mix, watch this if you don't know what is that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDp8rsdmdEE |
My best piece of advice would be the same as Cryos really. learn piano or guitar AND music theory. You learn fastest when your younger. My one biggest regret is that i stopped piano lessons after a few years and took up with computers instead...
Re: General Advice/Tips Wanted (Any Professionals Out There???)
That's easy. Music theory.
I have been 'producing' for a little under 2 years, but I have played guitar since the 80s...when, of course, it was a perfectly manly thing to wear neon spandex, women's clothing, makeup and not be considered a tranny 
Back then in guitar land, speed was king. Malmsteen, Vai, Satriani, Friedman et all were Gods and that's all we tried to do. Be faster than the next guy. Musicality for the most part was right out the window *funny since all the above mentioned guitarists were quite knowledgeable on theory.)
Today I liken it to production chops and GAS. People crave top end gear and the ability to one-up their buddies with tech chops rather that the fretboard variety. And again, musicality, harmony, melody etc suffer because all the little wannabee Pensados' and Lord-Alges' can produce the crap out of....crap. But a lot is still droning crap regardless.
Advice? Learn to actually play an instrument as previously stated, but don't do it like I and a million others did. Short of taking lessons, get a good video piano/guitar course (Play Piano Today is good if annoying) and the Groove 3 Music Theory videos - Total investment, under $100 USD. Add a midi keyboard for another $100 off ebay (49 key or better) or a Squier Strat or cheap acoustic for another $100 and you have all the things you need outside to get a decent start on the right path.
And yes, you CAN make music without a lot of theory and yes, 'pros' get rich and famous all the time without it. All I can say is that every time I watch those vids, read tutorials and another 'light goes on' I find that making music I actually WANT to make rather than am forced to make due to lack of skill/knowledge, becomes easier. Had I put a few of those years into learning theory then, I wouldn't be playing catch-up and kicking myself in the ass now.
Trust me.
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| Originally posted by MIKE333ACE What would simply be the best piece of advice that you could give a 14 year old producer thats been going at it for 9 months??? Cheers. |
Thanks to everone that replied to this thread. The main bit of advice that I'm picking up is to study music theory. So if that's really what everyone thinks I should do, then I'll defenitely give it a shot.
Once again, thankyou to all who posted
Listen actively to more music. This is probably the most helpful thing that pays off the quickest. Learning piano and theory is at minimum a 2 year commitment and you will not k ow anything that useful. I say this every time but theory is a double edged sword. Learning too little tends to make you think inside the box. You really have to learn it inside and out for it to pay off. Making EDM, I honestly wouldn't recommend theory unless the person is curiosity.
Playing an instrument can also be rather useless at low levels. Just Puttingfongers where the sheet tell you is not going to do much. But listening to music, then hacking out thenotes and chords on a piano will probably help the edmmusician.
But really , listen to music. And don't just listen while doing other things. Listen and really pay attention say the first time to the bass and kick , next time, the kick and lead.
Do this one hour a day. You will learn.
oh and the LCR panning thing works sometimes and other times it doesn't. Following it 100% is somewhat silly but it can work. I find the biggest downside is headphone listening. And this is/should be your target audience. People listen to music on ipods. LCR doesn't really excel at that sort of medium.
I think following RULES or hardlined prescriptions is somewhat a bad habit. The important thing is to understand why LCR has some advantages, and just use that knowledge when panning. As an exercise, great idea but already deciding your panning scheme before you finish a track doesn't really seem like the best strategy.
Color me confused (not an uncommon occurrence really . This isn't meant to question your knowledge or ability because you certainly have it, or start a pissing contest as I'd lose, but would not simply copying songs to learn as you said here, without learning the 'why' behind it (at least some of it theory wise) lead to the kind of derivative crap everyone detests? Or have I misunderstood? I just can't wrap my head around how you see (or seem to at least) see theory as almost an all or nothing proposition.
Also, simply banging things out on a real instrument takes the mind in directions that the mouse/piano roll method would never allow.
For me at least, even the basics of theory (and I mean real 'basics') opened up a whole world. I don't find it limiting/boxy at all.
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| Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Listen actively to more music. This is probably the most helpful thing that pays off the quickest. Learning piano and theory is at minimum a 2 year commitment and you will not k ow anything that useful. I say this every time but theory is a double edged sword. Learning too little tends to make you think inside the box. You really have to learn it inside and out for it to pay off. Making EDM, I honestly wouldn't recommend theory unless the person is curiosity. Playing an instrument can also be rather useless at low levels. Just Puttingfongers where the sheet tell you is not going to do much. But listening to music, then hacking out thenotes and chords on a piano will probably help the edmmusician. But really , listen to music. And don't just listen while doing other things. Listen and really pay attention say the first time to the bass and kick , next time, the kick and lead. Do this one hour a day. You will learn. |
because theory at the basic level is very prescriptive. You think it opened up a new world , it really just made you make chord progressions like everyone else. The manner in which you learn it , doing choral exercises also tends to affect how you write. You think in chords, you think about rules and it will affect how you write whether you like it or not. I would say the guy bangin stuff out has a greater odd of doing something unique.
Trust me, everyone that learns theory goes thru this.
And i encouraged playing an instrument. I was just explicit in how to play.
Look it all depends on what you want. If you want to just do EDM, and don't see yourself doing anything else, theory isn't going to do much. You will learn a set of rules that make you sound like a book of progression paradigms.
And i'm assuming you already know the basics. The best music schools, the first year and the theory they teach is really not that usefull other than to sound like everyone else. Now this would probably take a normal person 2-4 years. Thats alot of time.
If you want to be able to do everything, then yes, you will need to put in the time It will take you about 5-10 years of daily rigorous study to be adequate if you are learning on your own and you don't really know anything at the moment. I just don't think people have that in mind. I say this as someone that knows theory and studied it more than you can imagine. I'm not one of those people that shuns anything that isn't rock and roll. I wanted to be able to write like wagner and mahler, and you need to know alot more to pull that off.
you just have to realize the time you spend learning theory, well you aren't learning other things. And even with 2 years of harmony under your belt, unless you go to a proper school which you won't since you can't play an instrument, you will know enough to do what everyone else is doing.
I'm not saying don't, i'm just giving my honest opinon on what would help edm artists the most keeping time and opportunity cost in mind.
NOW I get you Can't argue that. Makes sense.
i think that is why I was pretty heavy on the listening bit. This will help you. I made some dance tracks knowing nothing about harmony, and everything about it was I suppose what you would learn in theory including secondary dominants. I used my ears. If you listen to music, you will know what sounds good to you and what doesn't.
here , this was one of my first tracks i made in 2001 ish. Now that progression you hear, , like when the trance comes in , that was just me messing with a keyboard. I knew absolutely nothing about theory in any formal way. Granted i played instruments and listened to alot of music. And i'm not dumb to think well i did it , so can everyone. I think my point is that this track, well if you learned theory, this is the kind of stuff you would write. Generic. Alot of work to be able to do something that won't pay off as much as you think.
DivShare File - PressureMaste.mp3
And that was when melody was important. I think EDM got tired of those lame cheesy lines so when i think about an EDM producer today, i think groove and production are just more relevant.
I will close by saying it is unfortunate EDM producers don't learn theory properly and not just western tonal theory but jazz and other styles of music but given the money people make, it is understandable and it is not really realistic to ask someone to spend 10 years learning just 1 small component that might help.
The best advice I can give you dear friend, is to get good monitors!! If theres one thing you should spend money on as a producer, its just that, and treatment of your room! Else, if this is not in place, all other tips and suggestions people give you will be superfluous and redundant, since you will never be able to hear properly for yourself, what they are talking about. First make sure what your listening through is top notch monitors, and then you can take in and understand others advice properly. I spent waay too much time in my early days mixing on crap speakers that color the sound. This, is the best advice I can give you. Hope you take account of it :)
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