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Dilemma - Which Card?

EDIT: I like this one because it's much cheaper but...

http://www.frontendaudio.com/Produc...101&click=18920

I like this one because it's cheaper.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSP9632/


I like this one because it looks more future-proof.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSPe9632/


Whichever card I get will be put in my current computer but I'm looking at doing a build, myself, a few months from now. Which one's going to give me the best return, in the long-run? Why?



Feel free to offer up other recommendations for PCI sound-cards, too.

EDIT: Tell me to fuck off and all that I'm good for amounts to shit threads, too. If I'm over-thinking this, I can totally accept that.

I sadly don't know much about PCI sound cards. However I will say that I ended up choosing my soundcard since it has a giant volume knob. That may sound stupid, but I can assure you I use it at least once every five minutes. Just something to consider.

Also, how many things are you planning on hooking up to the interface? If just a pair of speakers, you don't realistically need a super expensive card.

EDIT: I disagree that this is over thinking it. If you're planning on using it say like five times a week, be sure to get something you like.

Also, I'm not sure if there are any real advantages to having an internal sound card unless you just want to hook your stuff directly into your PC and not have to touch or look at any knobs. Like I don't think you're going to get a better recording.

quote:

Originally posted by jayxthekoolest Also, I'm not sure if there are any real advantages to having an internal sound card unless you just want to hook your stuff directly into your PC and not have to touch or look at any knobs. Like I don't think you're going to get a better recording.

Speakers and headphones are picked out and waiting for me to pull the trigger on the shopping cart. In terms of audio quality, that aspect will be taking a bit of a quantum leap. I think DJ RANN makes an eloquent case against doing the motherboard route in terms of both audio quality and dedicated processing power. His recommendations have actually heavily influenced my current crop of contenders. I'm kind of set on the GINA but don't want to rule out RME.

What card did you get with the giant knob?

can't say it was worth every penny compared to it's competitors, but i like it. definitely has a better build quality than my previous echo audiofire 4. it also looks really nice and matches my pc setup. i actually bought a new soundcard because the audiofire 4's volume knob would cause distortion when i used it - i must have broke it or something. anyways this is it below.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...CFS6FQAodmltEQw

EDIT: i say it's not worth every penny because part of what you are paying for is that it has onboard reverb processing. the reverb is not bad, but i have better reverb plugins, so I don't use it. however, for the price, i do say you get what you pay for. it is nicer than the $300 echo audiocard in terms of build quality.

Thanks for that link. I'm also looking for a sound card. Was thinking Focustite Saffire or the new range, but I'm going to give this a hard look.

Ya, trust me on the build quality. I would buy it again just because it is so well made. On the other hand, I would not buy an echo audiofire card again.

I may be over-thinking this. I'll probably delete this thread, tomorrow, but just want to cover the bases before closing the deal.

What do you need the card for? If it's only to plug monitors into why not just get a basic USB interface and save the rest for something sexier?

Re: Dilemma - Which Card?

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Whichever card I get will be put in my current computer but I'm looking at doing a build, myself, a few months from now. Which one's going to give me the best return, in the long-run? Why?

Definately go with a PCI card. No chance of spilling something on, breaking it/whatever. Plus being attached directly to the mobo gives it a really big advantage over usb/firewire cars that goes from the mobo, to usb/fw interface then to the interface. Also PCI cards generally have a higher noise floor than external interfaces, which is something to consider if you're gonna record anything.

Unless you have a laptop, I see no reason to get an external audio interface.

Here's my take:

RME are fucking great. Always have been and each new offering from them has been impressive. I remember dealing with them when I worked in audio service and when their UK service branch couldn't solve the issue, they sent one card back to the mother country where those diligent germans ran all manner of tests and pinpointed the exact issue. Even fixed it for free for our customer as they were interested as to what the actual problem was.

PCI cards, have pro and cons:

The cons are that they can easily suffer from RFI and EFI and I don't like the fact that PCI protocols keep changing, and while they made some of them backwards compatible (but not all), you should in theory hang on to a decent soundcard a lot longer than you would the average computer, which means future proofing yourself can be a challenge when you upgrade to a new Mobo etc. I think it limits your options in the long run compared to USB or Firewire which is completely backwards compatible (albeit limited to your gen in terms of speed) both of which have been standards since the mid 90's.

I don't quite know where the statement "they have higher noise floors than external cards" comes from. Maybe compared to shit external ones but not the likes of RME, Apogee, lavry etc. If anything external ones have less opportunity to suffer from interference and don't rely on a shared DC power source like PCI cards do - if anything good external cards have lower noise floors and that's why the really high end brands are all external.

I also like the fact that if your situation ever changes or need to travel and start using another non-pci computer (laptop, imac etc) you can still use your card.

There is also the issue that PCI cards *can* in certain circumstances be more of a burden in terms of processing power than external interfaces but this varies heavily on the brand and implementation of drivers, something which RME has never suffered from.

Sorry, but the reason of going PCI so "there's no chance of spilling something on it" is quite ridiculous. If you can't hold your liquor then you shouldn't be anywhere near several thousand dollars worth of sensitive pro audio equipment.

Also, there is no real world processing advantage of PCI being connected straight to the motherboard over USB or FW - USB or firewire has more than enough data bandwidth to accommodate several dozen full duplex tracks of audio. The real bottleneck is the drivers and how efficient that brand/model is at making hardware.

@jayxthekoolest - I'm a little suprised you "upgraded" from the ECHO Audiofire 4. I have the AF4 and have A/B it against most cards, even ones far more expensive there is no discernible difference between it and Steinbergs offerings (with exception to the mic pres). I can't really see how you could have a problem with the build quality - It's built like a fucking tank, the pres are decent and usable, and it has headphone volume control on the front panel. Granted the pres are better than the echo's but unless you've got a nice mic, isolation booth and some great monitors, not much point in them.

@EZ - I would pick whichever one really suits your needs;

Answer these:

1, do you need mic pres? If so how critical is sound quality?And do you have (or at some point will have ) the other links in the chain to take advantage of it? (great mic etc)
2, How many Ins/Outs? What connectivity do you need? (spdif/adat/aes etc)
3, How critical is latency?
4, How critical is sound quality? And do you have (or at some point will have ) the other links in the chain to take advantage of it? (great monitors, room treatment etc).
5, Do you need it to be portable/used with other computers etc?

Rann: I had a couple issues with the echo. First, the volume knob for the headphones on the front panel degraded and stopped working after perpetual use over a year's time. Also, the echo's drivers had weird issues. Sometimes they would stop working all together and the only way to reset them was by unplugging and plugging back in the soundcard. Also, sometimes the volume would reset, and my speakers (Yamaha HS80m) would make me feel like i'm going to lose my hearing (because they are ultra loud and I use the soundcard to lower the volume - my friend with an echo and same speakers has the same issue but deals with it by unplugging the card). My friend still owns an echo card and noted that they recently updated their software - like complete remake. I'm not sure if that would have solved my issues though.

The steinberg card indeed has the same level of audio quality. However the build quality is certainly much better and the software has zero issues.

quote:

Originally posted by jayxthekoolest Rann: I had a couple issues with the echo. First, the volume knob for the headphones on the front panel degraded and stopped working after perpetual use over a year's time. Also, the echo's drivers had weird issues. Sometimes they would stop working all together and the only way to reset them was by unplugging and plugging back in the soundcard. Also, sometimes the volume would reset, and my speakers (Yamaha HS80m) would make me feel like i'm going to lose my hearing (because they are ultra loud and I use the soundcard to lower the volume - my friend with an echo and same speakers has the same issue but deals with it by unplugging the card). My friend still owns an echo card and noted that they recently updated their software - like complete remake. I'm not sure if that would have solved my issues though. The steinberg card indeed has the same level of audio quality. However the build quality is certainly much better and the software has zero issues.

That bizarre. I've had it for two years on OSX and abused it without it ever flinching. Quality has been outstanding, to the point I've recommended it to a few dozen people and they love it. Granted, the drivers that came on the CD in the box were badly out of date and I was using the most recent version from the echo website but that's kind of given with any new kit. I know there was a recent PC revision of the drivers but it was just a few bug fixes (for the AF8 & 12) from the early 2011 driver (which as a major overhaul) which itself by all accounts I know of was super solid.

I will say I've heard good things about the UR28 but I don't like any soundcard that has potentiometers on them for the volume. At some point, they are going to die and then you're screwed. I also HATE (with a passion) using software for volume control, not to mention it fucks up your gain staging and monitor calibration, so really everything should be set to unity, and then turn down the monitors themselves and use a passive in line volume control to adjust. That way if the volume control ever starts to give out it's a $60 fix rather than dealing with a chunted soundcard.

RANN,

Thanks for the in-depth reply. Pretty much decided on the Echo for its price-point and flexibility. Haven't read any bad reviews. It's got good reviews on latency issues. I'll update this thread with results. I still might go with the median RME, but Echo pretty much provides what I want with enough expandability for the medium future.

y not save and get something crazy

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd y not save and get something crazy

Because I'll wind up lamenting in this thread, if I do:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forum/s...s=#.T0FzDfVmPTo

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Because I'll wind up lamenting in this thread, if I do: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forum/s...s=#.T0FzDfVmPTo

ooh i see

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Because I'll wind up lamenting in this thread, if I do: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forum/s...s=#.T0FzDfVmPTo

hahahahahahahhahaha

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Sorry, but the reason of going PCI so "there's no chance of spilling something on it" is quite ridiculous. If you can't hold your liquor then you shouldn't be anywhere near several thousand dollars worth of sensitive pro audio equipment.

Tbh, I've actually spilt liquid on pci cards too.

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