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-- whats your composition method?

whats your composition method?

Basically my question is where do you tend to start when creating a new track? I understand this can be a very abstract question as it tends to be an abstract process, at least for me it is. It's quite random. I sometimes start messing around with a few sounds I've been developing, then it turns into a 8 bar loop and then it can grow into a whole track...sometimes I start building an intro and produce totally horizontally (in theory, that is as I produce in Session view in ableton) My friend tells me he builds the main part of his tracks first, and works outward from the chorus.

How about you?

Re: whats your composition method?

quote:

Originally posted by sicc Basically my question is where do you tend to start when creating a new track? I understand this can be a very abstract question as it tends to be an abstract process, at least for me it is. It's quite random. I sometimes start messing around with a few sounds I've been developing, then it turns into a 8 bar loop and then it can grow into a whole track...sometimes I start building an intro and produce totally horizontally (in theory, that is as I produce in Session view in ableton) My friend tells me he builds the main part of his tracks first, and works outward from the chorus. How about you?

In semi random order

I first get some form of a melody rolling around my head and bang it out on a patch/preset close to what the minds ear 'hears'.

Next, pick a general kick sample close to what I envision and do a basic kick track.

Third, lay out a general track outline with empty blocks in the sequencer or quick 'fill melodies if I happen to think one up as I'm in the process.

Fourth, add a basic bassline

At that point, everything is open to revision and I start 'carving the block of stone until the statue emerges.

I experiment with sounds/effects as I go along and mix into a 2 bus comp from step one so I have no surprises adding one later.

I also 'listen on loop'. Many say this is bad. I can't do anything without it. It gives me ideas. EDIT: I monitor at 'conversational volume" so ear fatigue is lessened and only crank it to hear the 'end result'. A lot of advice I read says if you can get good thump and power at lower volume, half the war is already won. Seems to be the case for my experiences so far.

This of course is probably 8 ways of wrong, but it seems to work for me. I have finished songs in a week via the above, and others, like my first, I am still rehashing endlessly and learning on/from.

FWIW

Best advice I ever heard - FIRST!!! Make a template in Reaper (whatever you use) that's set up with all the stuff you know you'll use. In my case that's my mix busses/fx, A couple Jupiter 8vs, a couple Z3ta2s, another J8/Zeta pair for bass, Magnus Choir, a blank vocal track set to go with tools/fx, an 808/909 vst, and a few samplers in Reaper (The Samplomatic) for gen purposes.

Sit down

Fuck about

See what happens


This generally results in not a lot, but when inspiration strikes I've usually got an entire track in my head in about 60 seconds. If that doesn't happen it's probably not worth wasting time on anyway.

Everyone has a formula

First I go to the store to get the essentials, you know a couple of sodas, some cacndy and other snackables. Then I go back to the studio, start working on an 8-bar loop, then I usually remember I forgot something at the store so I go back, and pick up a case of KY Jelly.
Then I head on back to the studio and now it's the real business time so to say. Lather up all my mics in KY, and proceed to gently ram them into my ass. I usually get about 4 or 5 good takes with this method, so usually about this time I take a short break, to get some nachos.
After I've eaten the nachos, I usually mess around in FL for a while, just playing with the delays and stuff, before I call it a night, wipe off all lube and go to sleep.

big fat line of crystal. Clean the house for 2 days while inspiration percolates, then let the ideas just flow. Kerouac school of production. Except it usually ends up in one messy gang bang where the misses forgets to show up.

I start off with the main melody and chord progression

Find a kick, loop it for 4 beats, then build a percussion line over it. Once that's done I take the first chord in the progression, make a bassline to go with it, then throw it all into an 8 bar loop.

Then I usually spend a good 2 hours or so adding every element I want to include in the build-up. Usually I start with atmospheric pads/textures to fill in the track, then the main hook, then whatever else I can think of, adding effects as I go. The mix sounds pretty bad at this point but it's more about composition than production, it's still 8 bars on loop

I've noticed my mixes usually suffer because I tend to include a track that's louder than it needs to be, doing that with each subsequent element leads to a bunch of melodies/textures playing way too loudly while you can barely hear the percussion and bass that I started with. I just figured this out a few days ago -- now I mute every element but the kick and bring them in individually, leveling them as quiet as they can be while still having some presence in the mix

After that I clear the playlist and start building the track, which is usually the easiest part since all the writing is done, and I can focus on automation/effects. Usually I'll add a few more tracks while I'm doing it

Then I break the track down, introduce the main progression/melody during the breakdown, build it back up and just kind of go from there. I don't have that much of a process for my breakdowns yet, usually I just wing it. I figure keeping at least one part of my music somewhat spontaneous can't hurt.

That's about it.

1) On days when I'm composing, I will listen to a lot of music. Then I think of a theme or mood and set it as my wallpaper. And then I get started.
2) On days when I'm mixing and mastering, I will make sure my ears get a lot of rest before I even start.

My typical process goes:

1) play piano (or bass) until song idea comes together

2) turn on DAW and record the MIDI for the melody/chords while playing alongside a drum loop or metronome

3) rearrange and build song in DAW.

With me usually could start two different ways, one when this melody will come by itself (kind of starting to whistle something for a few min and then will form or shape itself to melodically acceptable level), two when I like to jump on my DAW call up some synth (one day could be Sylenth another something else) and go through different sounds playing some random chords.

The rest Dave describe this already in point #3

Cheers,

Darek

i'l be serious

depends on what style of music.

i will talk about music for media first

once the spotting is done, depending on wether i have a locked picture, i set up hit points. I also think about what the director/ producer want and work just write notes. I jot down where music is needed, for how long and a general idea of the type and a general ETA. THings to look out for like dialogue or sound fx that i know will be there and loud like a crash.

Next thing i do depending on the budget and time is decide my palette. If it is recorded, then that bit is solved, if not, then i have to think about what can be done with samples.

I only did orchestrating for film before fucking off to NY because Rann wouldn't let me have a thressome with his wife and started ass an assistant but pretty much do everything composition for TVt, A lot of work is done for the post pilot episode where you sort of hash out the themes and what not and the general style of the music which everyone needs to agree on.

Knowing what has already been heard, what people expect for certain things, you kind of work within that parameter. YOu have to stay somewhat the same in that you can't just start doing different music as the style of the show stays the same. So in a way , I kinda just plug in themes by number again still all on paper. I rate each cue on a different number of criterias.

Once the brainstorming is done. The rest is rather easy as far as composing. For anything that is not rhythmical, i first just play piano to it with the general theme and just a piano arrangement. I play to the hitpoints so that not too much timing sync stuff has to be done.

Then i do the arrangement in sibelius. SOmetimes this can take seconds if it is a jazz number or a rock thing but anything orcehstral usually takes a bit longer.

Then i do an actual beat track where i tap out the tempo changes so that everything hits the right point at the right time. The I start playing each seperate part. Then the grudge work I wish i had an assistant for making it sound real which involves alot of production trickery and what not.

Recording is done by us if we need anything like a live band or something. WIll usually conduct that rather than use a click. Well i have the click . not the band. The studio musicians in NY are better than LA and it usually takes about 1-3 takes max.

Then once it is good enough, the producer mostly, the director although not to the extent in hollywood as they change and they aren't really people and my boss who is the head composer but really a lazy ass lol will sign off on it.Then everything is sent to mixing and thats that. THe production stuff if there are any are done by me but the actual mix is done by some guy that knows what he is doing. I do about 90 % of the work, get 40 % of the money but it still works out to alot considering how much time you spend which isn't that much. There is actually more money in TV than FILM but you kinda never get to spread your wings and you can't do anything to fancy and you have less headroom in the non technical sense in that you can just have less layers than in film so arrangements are much more sparse because they have to for reasons i don't want to get into.

First episode took about 3 weeks. About 3-4 in, 1 - 2 days per show. max 3 with a few hours to mix. So basically 16 hours every day minimum. The more time i have, the more i will try to make it cooler. Especially if there is a new plot twist or something which can give you license to do something different. SOmetimes, you have an idea of what you can do without the actual locked picture because you have the script and can start recording say a band because you know you will want this certain sound. Because that stuff is not usually synced to hitpoints, usually just have a few permutations which are recording in less than 3 hours. Its kinda a gut thing. Can't really waste time recording people playing so the music is there, they play it and thats that.

will talk about other stuff later cuazz i'm gonna go touch myself.
Will talk about producing arranging for a rock band, pop bitch, rap group
video game
orchestrating
and EDM

and my polka project.

kinda just kerouac'd this bitch so it isn't completely accurate.

"Will talk about producing arranging for a rock band, pop bitch, rap group video game orchestrating and EDM"

Please do. This was extremely interesting.

next on that list.

hard to describe but basically a hired gun to help out the artist / producer with pretty much anything music related be it arrangement, harmony, melody. Most acts especially new ones have alot of help not that they want it but its in the contact. Usually they will actually have to get 2 songs written by a certain song writer and they don't have a say which is kinda shitty but i understand where the labels are coming from. They need 2 singles they can promote so worst case scenario, they use the hired writers. And then you have your george martin kinda guy that isn't the producer but kinda someone that can do everything and play everything and make things go from good to great.

i worked with a pretty well known hard rock / punk group and although I was already hired and the band really didn't have a say unless the tension was too much, the hardest part was really just getting the band to trust you in 1-2 days.

So basically had coffee with the main song writer and just talked about music. I was given kinda everything they like , the direction they want to go and just general stuff about them from their manager prior so it seemed like i knew who they were and i was a fan. Bands despite being kinda shitty in the talent area have some american size egos so basically just listened and agreed. Again that 1 hour was to make him trust/like me. Then i meet the entire band and kinda just jammed a bit on what ever was there. Then the manager kinda tells them a bit about me and that I am basically just there to make sure the producer isn't fucking up. I mean everyone is in on it including the manager/ producer / engineer but you have to really treat them like babies. So basically, they think i'm on their side and that i'm doing something production related which can be everything. I've already listened to all the music and already have the things i think need changing which the producer has also already heard but again, although the band legally has no choice, it just works better if they are working with you.

Then I have to go out with the band and drink and slowly introduce what i'm there for which is not so hard because people are drinking and well you just gauge the overall mood.

Then the hardest part is introducing the changes to the band. Had to use some serious sandwhich technique while referencing bands they like that have done it this way so that they don't start to wig out. On that particular album, there was 3 bridges that needed to be tweaked, some voice leading , a few harmony issues and about 6-9 things on guitar and drums. The main changes ie the bridges are really kinda non negotiable as much as you can say that with a band so i basically show them how to make it better with some clever chord modulations and what not again stating artists that have done it that they dig always making it seem like i'm not really doing anything but showing them a way that they will like because it is better and using an artist they like to make them think more about the band than me.

SO basically, i just play the chord change on guitar as none of them can read music and explain why certain things are the way they are. They kinda get giddy because they are kinda musical idiots and think its neat. There is the actual part on notation in case they need it later (p[roducer) .

Once the change that is most likely to make them happy is done. Its easier everything other thing you suggest. Again , sandwhich technique to the max and everything is just a suggestion.

But basically 4 days of showing things that say studio musicians would learn in about 10 minutes. But thats kinda part of the thing. You just have to make sure you don't make them wig out and go Oasis.

Was paid a fixed producer fee and an hourly fee. I could of got some back end points but i asked for more upfront instead because honestly, royalties for bands these days are just , well lets just say most bands have about 3 months and thats it. That album will never be bought again.

Entire thing was actually pretty demanding but mostly on my patience. You can't let them know you went to julliard for composition and that there is nothing theory wise i don't know because to them , the second they hear theory, they get defensive. Its not what where about or shit. And they tend to act like babies. There is always one drug addict in the band. The guitar player thought he was gods gift to music. And the singer was sensitive but in that hard rock way ... ya , some prettty funny lame stuff. So all in all 5 days, but the pay was worth it and if i was single, well rock bands are still just as cliche and might of got more mileage.

As far as how i went about know how to fix the parts, the were certain technical things like knowing where distorted guitars sound good and where they don't in terms of like the foundation power chord thing. Then the singer's range. Also general arrangement things like say the drummer is playing something that is not working with the guitar as most producers just don't have the music background to spot the problem and fix it there. The music is really simple and the actual changes took about 10 minutes. Not really much to think about. And since i play guitar and drums and i was into hard rock and well could play all their instruments better than they could, fixing the guitar and drums was also pretty simple.

So about 1 hour of work actually doing music, and then 4 days of showing them so their feelings are not hurt. It was interesting but kinda annoying when you feel like just doing it for them because they just learn so damn slow but of course you can't do that because that isn't rock and roll and shit. But ya, learned about patience.

since i 'm talking about rock bands, i was also asked to help with an album and wrote / produced one of the tracks which was a single and had a video. The track was actually something i had done before and the producer happened to hear it and said he wanted that so i took the really really tough draft and made it more cool.

For rock, things aren't too complicated for the composition because certain things are universal. One thing the band wanted which most do now is electronic stuff so i first got a palette of sounds and worked on the track simultaneously.

http://www.divshare.com/download/16865489-127

that was an early scratch minus vocals and guitars as that would give it away. As i menioned, the words and track had already beeen done so i just made more in their style.But ya, basically have a draft of how things should go, then work on the sounds which is kinda a hit and miss thing because you can't use presets obviously so you are basically thinking in your of sounds it might need. The rest well you can't hear the guitar and my voice which sounds awful and the bridge is not in this version but basically from that, they can made a polished pop track.

The worst part is that although they recorded the drummer, they used my drum track with some of the stuff he did so that he felt it was his. Fuck drummers are dumb. For that i just used a roland v drum and just played the part. Alhough i don't think it was this take as this was like beta 0.2

For that , i got a production fee, a hour fee, and a back end as well. I was going to start a rock band but when I was offered money, alot of money at the time, i said fuck it you can have it.

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