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Question on experienced producers' workflow

I was wondering about different people's workflow methods. I'm trying a few different approaches...
-Getting a kick and bass down, and going thru percussion and then into leads, etc.
-Or alternatively sticking with percussion until it really drives, then going into a more subtle bass.

I pretty much get hung up when I try to take it further without it sounding cheesy. Whenever it gets sounding cheese, I get pretty frustrated and start deleting.

So, recently, I've heard it mentioned to really focus on every step. Get all the modulation for your sounds in place and really sounding fantastic before adding any other elements. This has helped a little in getting my underlying stuff to not sound so crap... but I still just end up with some random 'rolling beat' that still doesn't sound really anything like I want it to. Thus I don't really do much with it aside from make halfassed arrangements as I don't like the underlying motif.

Hell, I can get really hung up just picking a kick drum sometimes. Synthing my own sounds even worse.



I suppose I'm wondering if anyone might have any words of wisdom on how to refine/define/focus/improve ones workflow.

I'm not really after "faster results", or some way around practicing, but I wish I were way more efficient in my practice.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Topic 68

Wouldnt say im the most experienced at this shit but i know exactly how you are feeling and i think we've all been there...

You start to analyse every sound, start changing the kick, change the bass until it just sounds nothing like what you started with and then you invariably delete the project or just abandon it

Only thing i can say is to try and get a clear picture in your mind of what you actually want to make, get something going that works, like a good bassline that interacts nicely with percussion or a loop, if its not working scrap it until you get something that does work, dont convince yourself it sounds good unless it does

Ive found the more you stick at this and the more tracks you make, your sound selection becomes better and your ideas start to sound like you want, then the kick, percs, bass just seem to fall into place easier?

Cant emphasise enough the importance of good sound sources, whether they be samples, synths, drum machines, hardware...whatever...you'll be more comfortable in developing your ideas if you arent worrying about whether the sounds you are using are good enough in the first place

my 2c

I usually just dump as many ideas into a project and cut away first sounds that are terrible. Then I just keep adding and subtracting until I have what I am looking for

Re: Question on experienced producers' workflow

quote:

Originally posted by jsrobinson I was wondering about different people's workflow methods. I'm trying a few different approaches... -Getting a kick and bass down, and going thru percussion and then into leads, etc. -Or alternatively sticking with percussion until it really drives, then going into a more subtle bass. I pretty much get hung up when I try to take it further without it sounding cheesy. Whenever it gets sounding cheese, I get pretty frustrated and start deleting. So, recently, I've heard it mentioned to really focus on every step. Get all the modulation for your sounds in place and really sounding fantastic before adding any other elements. This has helped a little in getting my underlying stuff to not sound so crap... but I still just end up with some random 'rolling beat' that still doesn't sound really anything like I want it to. Thus I don't really do much with it aside from make halfassed arrangements as I don't like the underlying motif. Hell, I can get really hung up just picking a kick drum sometimes. Synthing my own sounds even worse. I suppose I'm wondering if anyone might have any words of wisdom on how to refine/define/focus/improve ones workflow. I'm not really after "faster results", or some way around practicing, but I wish I were way more efficient in my practice. Thanks for any thoughts.

When you're song writing, that is not the time to try and figure out how to improve yourself. Save that for another time when you focus on one thing. If you keep on trying to analyze why you're shit sucks, then you'll hesitate at every opportunity while making a song. Just do the best you can, and move on after its done.

As for kick drums, use any Vengeance sample pack(not construction kicks) or just sample from a pro track.

If you're trying to improve on something, trying hitting up youtube to see if there's a tutorial there. If you're trying to make a rolling bassline, there's more than few tutorials for that.

Re: Question on experienced producers' workflow

quote:

Originally posted by jsrobinson I was wondering about different people's workflow methods. I'm trying a few different approaches... -Getting a kick and bass down, and going thru percussion and then into leads, etc. -Or alternatively sticking with percussion until it really drives, then going into a more subtle bass.

F### the kick drum. Start with a generic drum loop and come up with an idea for a song first, then go back and work on the drums. If you don't have anything to say musically, a good kick drum isn't going to save your track.

right on

its often considered best practice to build from the bottom and work from there.
it is also good to have something in mined its no good just selecting any old shit hoping it sticks.Think about what you want to achieve and what moves you.

you may fined things like post production very useful not only does it save on cpu power but it will save you time in the long run.

Cool.
I do know the general sound style I'm going for, and I have several ideas in my head on songs I thing would work. Just the execution blows.

you can always make the melodies first and add drums to that later, that's how I do it. I find it easier to make drums that fit my synths instead of the other way around. Try it, maybe youll like it.

ask a guitar player to write a song around a drum beat

quote:

Originally posted by mathieu you can always make the melodies first and add drums to that later, that's how I do it. I find it easier to make drums that fit my synths instead of the other way around. Try it, maybe youll like it.

Not a bad idea.
I need to stop thinking so linearly.

im not an experienced producer, but i do like the approach of rick snowman at dance music production.com

he often gets the musical parts down with a simple patch or a rompler preset, then designs the sound/ programs proper drums later.

Also his leads are often musically fairly complex and built around chords really

I think decisiveness comes with experience (at least i hope so Im still changing stuff on my first trance production, its been such a steep learning curve but im hoping next time around ill be able to make better decisions first time around

i see EDM differently. The only thing in music changing is production. No new melodies, no new chords .... So the actual sound is really the only thing new you are brining and as such , it really should be the main focus. As far as song writing, this should be something you already know how to do as it has been done to perfection before. So for me, the sound design and say he kick and the bass and how they interact in terms of EDM are foundation of the track. I'm not downplaying songwriting, I just think that it is a pre requisite. But the way it sounds and how it is produced is really what makes your track not someone elses track.

I have a background heavy in percussion as my only formal musical training. As a result everything comes out super rhymic which is not very useful.

I've been trying to teach myself some keyboard basics so I can try to play something more expressively outside of the sequencer.

Inspiration really isn't my issue. I feel like I've got plenty of ideas, but I need to really work on composition.

So far, just doing everything I can to punch through this damn paper bag and try to hit a bit of a stride. I have no intention of quitting, ever, I love learning this. I spend hours and hours daily on this, it's consuming all my free time, and I love the learning so far, it's using my mind in exciting new ways. I just hope I can cultivate something substantial that I feel really expresses myself.

I threw this pile of cheese together recently (whoopee):
http://soundcloud.com/psymbolist/proj-001/s-ObNBL

To me it's no better than what I posted months ago, maybe worse:
http://snd.sc/zRos7N

I'm honest enough with myself to know it's garbage, it is indeed frustrating throwing up such misses though.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...299&forumid=47&

quote:

Originally posted by jsrobinson I have a background heavy in percussion as my only formal musical training. As a result everything comes out super rhymic which is not very useful..

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...s=#.T1K6sZhmurA

you are a heavily trained as a percussionist ? I try not to be a dick but goddamn, if you can't pick out rhythms a 5 year old in 2nd grade suzuki can, i woudn't say trained let alone heavy.

Eh, fair enough, earlier in life I guess. I guess I don't mean "heavily trained". I sold my drum kit when we lived in a place I couldn't play it... regret doing that. But it was what I was taught first as opposed to a melodic instrument. Spent 5 years on it so I feel I have an intuition for drive and meter, but I was pretty undirected back then.

As for where I'm at now when I put my head to something I usually stick to it obsessively. But, I'm a big fan of workflow and efficiency and just like to not feel like I'm spending weeks wasting time doing stupid shit.

Re: Question on experienced producers' workflow

Most of the stuff you mention comes with time. All the little "tricks" in my workflow are mostly kinks in my own process that aren't necessarily compatible with anyone else's. It's stuff you learn by making mistakes; doing something you're not really supposed to be doing that translates into something that actually sounds cool.

quote:

Originally posted by jsrobinson I pretty much get hung up when I try to take it further without it sounding cheesy. Whenever it gets sounding cheese, I get pretty frustrated and start deleting.

If you're talking about the same thing that just happened to me, on a song I'm working on, I don't think you're too far off the mark. I basically had this idea that I was going to repeat an introductory hook at a climax. Everything was in key. Technically, there was nothing wrong with it. I even lengthened it and added some variations I thought were novel.

Listening to it again, though, it just felt wrong. Not just wrong, but really wrong. I hated the way it sounded. It completely killed the mood I was going for. It pretty much fucked the energy. I'm going to take another crack at adding the part that "should" be there, tomorrow, but what I did (and subsequently deleted) just wasn't it. The important thing, for me anyway, is that I'm not stacking shit on top of more shit to try and fix something that will not ever work the way I want it to. That just kills it and I've killed a lot of good ideas trying to mask the smell of stale cheese.

quote:

Originally posted by jsrobinson I have a background heavy in percussion as my only formal musical training. As a result everything comes out super rhymic which is not very useful. I've been trying to teach myself some keyboard basics so I can try to play something more expressively outside of the sequencer. Inspiration really isn't my issue. I feel like I've got plenty of ideas, but I need to really work on composition. So far, just doing everything I can to punch through this damn paper bag and try to hit a bit of a stride. I have no intention of quitting, ever, I love learning this. I spend hours and hours daily on this, it's consuming all my free time, and I love the learning so far, it's using my mind in exciting new ways. I just hope I can cultivate something substantial that I feel really expresses myself. I threw this pile of cheese together recently (whoopee): http://soundcloud.com/psymbolist/proj-001/s-ObNBL To me it's no better than what I posted months ago, maybe worse: http://snd.sc/zRos7N I'm honest enough with myself to know it's garbage, it is indeed frustrating throwing up such misses though.

not really a fan of that sound but despite that i think the mix doesnt sound good as that main lead is far too dominant, its drowning out your kick and percs

So i think you need to work on your mix/arrangement

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