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-- Developing your own style vs. Releasing for the sake of releasing
Developing your own style vs. Releasing for the sake of releasing
So for the longest time people have asked me why I never finish tracks. People from DJs who hear my incomplete WIPs who would love to play my tracks out, to friends, to fellow producers, etc. I had a partner that I worked on tracks with and we were making stuff, but he was the DJ part of the equation (and more importantly, arranged the tracks... I'll never forget that... how could I spent years producing and a simple DJ could come around and arrange so easily?)
We made some great stuff and it was fun, but I wasn't really confident enough in my production abilities even though people were impressed, for me, it was never sufficient. But he really wanted to get stuff out on Beatport. At the time I felt like it was just for the sake of getting something on BP, but now, what am I doing? Why am I even making this music, if I can't finish a fucking track? How good can I possibly get? Certainly not good enough to fucking finish something.
Arrangement FAIL.
Edit, ps... now we have a few tracks on BP from a year ago, but my new shit needs to be heard too... maybe I can spend another year or so perfecting my craft? I'm great at what I do but I need to be a little better for me to be personally satisfied. Why struggle with "perfection"? Some producers are like that where they never feel satisfied with the end result and they don't know when to stop...
Please.. thoughts, feelings!
is a track ever finished? since there's always room to tweak this and that..chicane said his tracks are taken & released before he can 'finish' it, but it sounds finished to the listener..
i cant offer much advice , but I am in the same boat as you, I think when you love something like music, it takes a long time to reach the point where your making the type of stuff your happy with. I think if anything you have a bigger sense on reality, you know the bar it is that you have to reach and wont settle for less, and some people don't have that its like those american idols contestants who go up and audition but cant hit the right notes, I have friends that make terrible tracks, and are in awe whenever they hear my stuff, but because they put it out there, and promote themselves, (when personally I think they should be perfecting their craft) they have fans, so I guess its up to you on choosing what's more important.
Just make tracks... you're not always going to make excellent music and you need to be able to deal with mediocrity if you're even considering getting into any art form seriously.
Put out what you think is worthwhile, but bear in mind you're never going to please everyone or achieve perfection, ever.
strive for excellence not perfection
i've always sorta attributed this to having to write within a genre, like when you have to follow the rules it can paralyze creativity
also if you put too much pressure on yourself, like if you're doing it to validate whatever part of your ego that needs validation, instead of just doing it for fun because you enjoy it
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| Originally posted by meriter strive for excellence not perfection |
You are the sum of your influences and what you hear. You are the summation of other people's styles. Think about it like this: humans have a lot of junk dna that doesn't show up (idk anything about biology so this info could be dated). If you look at our DNA, we're related to mice. Look at a more recent example: maybe your great^7 grandma and your great^7 grandfather don't look a thing like you or act like you, but their genetic information got diluted by the time they came to you. So you are actually a summation of everything that has mated from the beginning down to you, but you yourself are an individual that is distinct from your parents and from mice.
Now look at the memetic genes of your songs that you like and your very own songs. There's a lot of junk information in your head from songs that are forgettable on the radio or beatport or whatever but some of those songs might help trigger and express themselves in your own songs. You'll sound like every other producer out there, but so what? If it's you, then it's your style. This is why I feel there is no shame in sounding like someone else or everyone else because your songs and basically every song ever made are just the summation of a whole bunch of information from the past. The thing is, you may act like someone, and look like someone, but you will always look different and act differently than many people--just like songs.
It's best to work every day and it's best to work fast. Don't be afraid about the fact that you'll be someone else. What you need to do is have sex with that sequencer and make as many songs as you want. One of those babies will eventually mutate and be an awesome song. the key here is to make as many babies as possible. This is how evolution literally happens: sometimes mutations happen and they can be harmful, have no effect at all or they can be beneficial. The key here is that you need to keep making babies with your DAW. You need to produce at a fast pace. Organisms that reproduce more tend to mutate more. Just make songs and release them.
Sure, there are a lot of songs out there, but you need to release. Make a realistic time table, have a quota of songs, select 3-4 songs from that catalog of yours and just release them, otherwise you might never release at all ever. I would go 3-4 EPs a year with a few remixes if you are serious about it, just so you can stay in the spotlight. Don't rush yourself though, and only release if you think you're ready. You seem to have a network of DJs so they will definitely help you out in discriminating the good from the bad. Maybe 3-4 eps is a long term goal you should go for, but for now stick with the short term goal of making a bunch of songs withing a time period and finding which one(s) to release.
releasing for the sake of releasing is retarded. Wait. If you don't know what sucks and what doesn't , you won't ever make anyways. So wait until you are good, then proceed.
A lot of it is Type A vs. Type B people. I have 3 friends who make electronic music. All 3 of them are better than me. But all 3 are type B people and they have no future because they can't get things done and almost seem to revel in showing their music to a few people as possible. They really take pride in their music and do a fantastic job but at some point you have to be able to face rejection, be aggressive and send emails to dozens of A&R people, make deadlines and be prompt in corresponding with people.
It is why Armin van Buuren, who isn't the best producer or DJ was number 1 for years. He was relentless in using every last cent of talent he has and then some. He moved quickly and was always doing something new and innovative (he was the first one to do a major weekly 2 hour radio internet radio show for example).
no, Armin was doing it at the right time , had a name, a brand , had a product and marketing. Releasing stuff without a plan is pointless. Releasing stuff that sucks is pointless. Throw it on your soundcloud. If you can't critic your own music in a realistic way, you won't ever amount to anything so this doesn't concern you.Now, if you are able to tell who sucks , and who doesn't, you have the ability to know when you don't suck. When you are in a position to sell a product that people will actually buy, sell. Anything else is brand negative and something you don't do.
alot of great artists had stuff , early stuff that is better than everything you will do but didn't bother. WHy ? because it sucked. There is no point in releasing crap. There is no point in selling a shitty product. Unless you think you can't make a good product. Then you either fuck off or do what ever raphie does. It is pathetic to suck and feel the need to share your suck with the world. Keep it to yourself.
I never said to release stuff on soundcloud. I agree with what you said. What I am saying is that you can only do those things if you are aggressive and proactive.
and you don't suck. Be aggressive in not sucking. Step one. As far as the soundcloud commen, i meant that until you have something worth selling, put it on your soundcloud. YOu aren't doing anything positive for yourself releasing on shitty labels basically ruining your reputation.
As far as arrangement goes...I think its probably the most misunderstood aspect of the song writing process.
It's not just organizing loops in a sense, but building a meaningful progress where each part is complimented by what comes before and after each section.
It comes down to building up and breaking down energy, and creating anticipation.
No one ever talks about phrase length, but that's terribly important for controlling energy.
8 bars. Hasn't changed in 30 years.
i can understand where your coming from as i find it hard to finish anything, once i get over the initial buzz - and especially if i reference with something that sounds great.
I do think that finishing tracks is important as its the only way to learn about arrangement / final mix downs etc. Whether you get it released or not is up to you, but by finishing stuff it helps your own development.
As you mentioned confidence is a big issue - if you have confidence (for good reason) in your music then you will finish it as you know it sounds good and someone will like it.
Perhaps its an idea to study other peoples arrangements if this is a particular issue?
A lot of good responses so thanks. I think the night I wrote that I had been drinking tequila, but I'm glad I wrote it. I agree that being able to hear what sucks, I know it is a necessary skill which I've had for a while, which is why I've been giving feedback and constructive criticism on this website for over half a decade. A lot of producers I've helped with feedback have gotten better, some haven't, either way, I was always honest and if it sounded truly awful I would tell them. There are few tracks on here where I simply was in awe and left them such words that it was amazing and I just loved it to death, but it has happened.
Personally I think it's a feeling that there are certain elements of my productions I know for a fact I can improve and make better. That's because I started working in FruityLoops 10 years ago, and since then there have always been things I've found that I needed and had to improve and I've had success in every single area. Some took dramatically longer to improve than others, but generally speaking if I tried hard and was very persistent that area of production would improve.
It may also be a lack of discipline, which is also something else I've been struggling with. When I'm in the mood, working on tracks is one of the most enjoyable things I can do besides partying, drugs or sex... that primal euphoria. However, I have noticed that linearly speaking, my level of enjoyment become disproportionate to the amount of time I spend on a track. Right when the idea starts to emerge and all of my elements start to come together and I've been lots of work into it, and I can loop an 8 bar and it feels solid, dancable and professional, it's the most rewarding and fun part. Now once I start to try and arrange that into intro, chorus, verse, outro, whatever, it becomes such a pain, and instead of opening up that track in my DAW the next day I will start a new track, seeking that original feeling of fun, enjoyment and satisfaction.
My usage of the word perfection was misused, too. I don't really mean the perfect track because I don't believe a perfect track exists. What I mean is maybe a finer, more professional and artistic development of my style and workflow to know how I want the arrangement and production to sound, and be able to sit down and execute it without getting super bored or uninspired once I spend too long working on a track. I feel like I'm so close to that point it's surreal, because like I mentioned about using DAWs and "making music" for 10 years, I'm only 24 now and even though it took me this long, I think every moment was worth it because I spent all the necessary time on each element to nurture it.
So my overall feeling about this now is that there may be a few things I can work on to improve like style and arrangement and overall song writing, but that it's not an excuse to wait any longer to start releasing my tracks. I'm not trying to make perfect tracks that satisfy everyone, stuff I've made get certain people really excited, but not others, and vice versa when they've heard something else I've done. It would just be a step in the right direction to demonstrate I'm serious about making dance music by not being lazy, and finishing productions, instead of just trying to constantly have "fun" -- and do some actual fucking work.
I can spend another year or so perfecting my craft? I'm great at what I do but I need to be a little better for me to be personally satisfied. Why struggle with "perfection"? Some producers are like that where they never feel satisfied with the end result and they don't know when to stop...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Looney4Clooney 8 bars. Hasn't changed in 30 years. |
i have like 3 categories of tracks:
A) Good ones, i don't feel they need major changes.
B) Tracks that have potential and i ask for feedback to see if something can be done to fix them
C) Experimental stuff that i keep to myself, sometimes i show it to other people and they give me ideas to rearrange them in a more fashionable way.
Thing is that you should finish your stuff and classify it, some tracks will be beatport worthy, others won't and others even though they don't meet the current standards to be released, are great pieces of music and you should consider to give them for free and create a following nevertheless.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by LoveHate you know the bar it is that you have to reach and wont settle for less, |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Rodri Santos Thing is that you should finish your stuff and classify it, some tracks will be beatport worthy, others won't and others even though they don't meet the current standards to be released, are great pieces of music and you should consider to give them for free and create a following nevertheless. |
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