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-- I'd like to talk a little about high end

I'd like to talk a little about high end

In total contrast to the general obsession with baayyzzzz in dance tracks, my current topic of frustration is with a clear, airy top end.

I'm pretty confident I know what I'm doing with the bottom end, although my monitoring setup often requires I constantly re-level stuff after some referencing.

I'm pretty confident that my mixes are generally well balanced with good sound choice blah blah.

What's eluding me is a crystal clear, non harsh top end with all the space and air of a swiss mountain top.

I'm generally pretty tidy EQ'ing the bottom end so that everything has it's own space, but probably not so fastidious with the highs as I have the assumption it doesn't matter so much. I've also toyed with the idea of low passing everything but hats etc in the same way I do with the low end, but I wonder if it's really worth it.

Here's the latest thing that bothers me, it's just a sound demo i've done for somebody elses soundset and is deliberately 'trance mega mix' in nature. I still think the highs are a bit crashy though.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11590488

Soundclick so the highs aren't automatically smashed by soundcloud.

I don't perceive any particular harshness with the example above. Maybe you should give your ears a little break.

That said, it depends on many things. Source, source settings, reverb choise, reverb settings, layers, layering balance, daw etc.

I'm not really hearing anything obnoxious, either. I know I tend to be a little shy with my high frequencies so take that for what it's worth. I definitely wouldn't go any higher but you sound nice, on my end.

Just like you low pass everything but the kick and the bass, you have to high pass everything. Some things have mud in the 15k+ range.

You would think cutting the highs would make things less bright, but that's not always the case.

Find a professional track and compare your mix with that track. For example, I have seen several Deadmau5 tracks where he cuts everything above 10,000hz. On the other hand, someone like Arty cuts absolutely everything above 15,000hz. In addition to cutting out all those frequencies, consider adding white noise to synths and to the entire track. Eq the white noise obviously.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Just like you low pass everything but the kick and the bass, you have to high pass everything.

This is bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by jayxthekoolest Find a professional track and compare your mix with that track. For example, I have seen several Deadmau5 tracks where he cuts everything above 10,000hz. On the other hand, someone like Arty cuts absolutely everything above 15,000hz. In addition to cutting out all those frequencies, consider adding white noise to synths and to the entire track. Eq the white noise obviously.

Have you even heard the track?

EDIT: Also...

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker 26. White Noise is incredibly musical. Use it when you're not sure what to do next. It's so versatile that you can pretty much use it to patch up whatever musical weak points there are in a mix.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=625631&referrerid=2#.T5RFOKuXTz9

quote:

Originally posted by jayxthekoolest Find a professional track and compare your mix with that track. For example, I have seen several Deadmau5 tracks where he cuts everything above 10,000hz.

I really doubt that, its probably a mp3.

I think there's mileage in removing unnecessary top end in a digital system as there's no natural compression going on up there.

I also don't think there's anything wrong per se with my clip, it's just not as clear and open as the professional tracks I A/B with, and that's the target for me.

It could even be that I need to make more room down at the 2-5k region and that's adding up to make the higher stuff sound harsh, I just don't know at this point.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord I think there's mileage in removing unnecessary top end in a digital system as there's no natural compression going on up there. I also don't think there's anything wrong per se with my clip, it's just not as clear and open as the professional tracks I A/B with, and that's the target for me. It could even be that I need to make more room down at the 2-5k region and that's adding up to make the higher stuff sound harsh, I just don't know at this point.

Maybe you should post the B you're referencing since just offhand, I/we can't really hear any short-comings.

It's not really a specific track, although the closest current match in terms of overall sound would be something like John O'Callaghan. It's pointless linking to a YT vid as they're always a bit crispy anyway. I often use Spotify to A/B my mixes as they stream in the excellent Ogg, and there's a subtle but important difference in the clarity of the highs.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Just like you low pass everything but the kick and the bass, you have to high pass everything. Some things have mud in the 15k+ range. You would think cutting the highs would make things less bright, but that's not always the case.

?
I always put a eq on the masterbus just to cut the very highest highs. I dont see the need of high pass everything. If there�s mud in the 15k+ range, i cant really imagine that it�s even hearable, opposed to the lower side.

quote:

Originally posted by sleeping ? I always put a eq on the masterbus just to cut the very highest highs. I dont see the need of high pass everything. If there�s mud in the 15k+ range, i cant really imagine that it�s even hearable, opposed to the lower side.

Put a low pass filter on every track and set to taste. Maybe mud isn't the right word, but some things sound better when you filter out the high end.

For what it's worth, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think anything over 15,000 hz cannot be cut to vinyl. Something about the needle vibrating too fast and causing audible noise/static.

this is an EQ preset I slap on everything, have had pretty good luck with it

bluff I'm with you on the highs and I recognise this issue. Yur lows in that track btw sound wonderful.

Very recently I'm spending much more time and attention on all hi sound content. It's easy to overlook the fact a few hats and hi synth sounds can really clash.

I'm taking to removing masses of eq out of hat sounds, so that in the main (not alwasy) just the hi's remain in the hats, this then gives more room for those hi synthy tones.

Another thing to watch are those sweeps and crashes which are easy to overlook. They can really get messy when hitting alondside all the hatz etc. This is where levelling and ducking have to be carefully done.

Opening filters on synth parts is another danger area of course and easy to get carried away in the moment. I try and remember to automate the eq hi shelve bringing it down as the synth filters open so you still get that filtery loverlyness happening but hopefuly with a valve on the harsh and clashing highs.

Your sound is real pro mate I wouldn't fret too much.

48 dB is a little overkill

quote:

Originally posted by meriter For what it's worth, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think anything over 15,000 hz cannot be cut to vinyl. Something about the needle vibrating too fast and causing audible noise/static. this is an EQ preset I slap on everything, have had pretty good luck with it

I am curious on what you use this, even the kick for example? I tend to cut things to 20-30Hz but i see you start decreasing around 50hz, the bass and the kick need some frequencies there in my opinion.

Also cutting 16khz... depending on the sound i do this, 80% of the cases i'd say but i've seen that the "electronica master" preset on Izotope Ozone actually boost this quite a lot, say +12db, i've also seen through youtube videos that some producers slightly boost from 10khz to 20khz on the eq, theory tell me 3 things about this:

1.- Above 15khz sounds are unpleasant so don't do it.
2.- I've tried to highpass a track to 15khz and it's like if it loses some of the vibe, even A/B comparing the 2 waveforms you see that something isn't there.
3.- Generally if you analyze a track with an equalizer you'll see that there's very little going on there so if you want to make it present you need to boost the things up there.

I'd say this is a discussion between those who prefer pristine mixes and those who prefer a warmer feeling on the track.

pretty sure he is putting it on the master.

High End 15Khz + is just really not that important. MOst cant hear it, mp3's will truncate it. I do think judicious use of the type of EQ you would use on say a distortion guitar, low and high cut accentuating the mids can be effective. I think most are talking about the 8 kHz range. Not as noticeable as bass in terms of improper balance and the resulting track not only how it sounds across all frequencies but also how loud you can get it without making it sound shit.

using any automatic preset without knowing why is a bad habit. EDM producers have a really bad habit of using filters with ridiculous slopes and chopping off way too much making everything sound surgical and unnatural. It is a good practice to get what you think is good, then just back off a bit. Not just eq, Everything really. Until you have the experience, you will tend to overshoot.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney using any automatic preset without knowing why is a bad habit. EDM producers have a really bad habit of using filters with ridiculous slopes and chopping off way too much making everything sound surgical and unnatural. It is a good practice to get what you think is good, then just back off a bit. Not just eq, Everything really. Until you have the experience, you will tend to overshoot.

I completely agree. I tend to do this without even realising.
And then I come back to a mix and half the sound is gone with an EQ lol. I think mastering the EQ and not using it just on everything because thats what people tell you to do is important.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos I am curious on what you use this, even the kick for example? I tend to cut things to 20-30Hz but i see you start decreasing around 50hz, the bass and the kick need some frequencies there in my opinion.

I start with that preset on pretty much everything but it is just a starting point. I don't work with an EQ on the master I figure you shouldn't need to. I've never had a good result with just low-passing the entire mix and wouldn't recommend that, but I pretty much keep that steep cut at 16,200 hz for every element and it sounds fine, there's plenty of air and my personal preference is to mix a little dark anyway. Helps with the ear fatigue too


As far as the low end goes I never just recklessly cut everything at 40 hz and call it a day and btw the lower frequencies don't just disappear when you do that. There's still a fair amount going on in the low end even when you do roll it off but yeah for the kick it's always different

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