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-- A few questions... in search of intelligent opinions

A few questions... in search of intelligent opinions

Hello!

I have a couple of questions, most of 'em are newby questions, so please bear with me.

1. I know pioneer DJM-600's are cited on here as being on of the best mixers around... is that because of the effects package? Sound quality? (I don't really care bout reliability at the moment...) What about the DJM-500, is there any real difference?

2. Alot of the posts I've seen so far don't like Numark TT's. Any particular reasoning behind it? I've heard the motors kinda suck, but with their redesign lately, didn't they fix that issue?

3. Has anyone else heard of Redsound... the specs on their Infader Mixer are amazing.. and $495, its a site cheaper than the djm-600... (its digital, all of it... looks like a blast, with three crossfaders - for hi's, mids, and lows)

Anyway, please help me with any/all of these questions! thanks in advance for your information.

Re: A few questions... in search of intelligent opinions

quote:

Originally posted by OBC Hello! I have a couple of questions, most of 'em are newby questions, so please bear with me. 1. I know pioneer DJM-600's are cited on here as being on of the best mixers around... is that because of the effects package? Sound quality? (I don't really care bout reliability at the moment...) What about the DJM-500, is there any real difference? 2. Alot of the posts I've seen so far don't like Numark TT's. Any particular reasoning behind it? I've heard the motors kinda suck, but with their redesign lately, didn't they fix that issue? 3. Has anyone else heard of Redsound... the specs on their Infader Mixer are amazing.. and $495, its a site cheaper than the djm-600... (its digital, all of it... looks like a blast, with three crossfaders - for hi's, mids, and lows) Anyway, please help me with any/all of these questions! thanks in advance for your information.

the pioneers are a great all around mixer and easy to use ,yet it's not my fav, I mean it's not got bad points to it, I just have my *heart* given to another mixer.

Numark is good as long as it's new, once you start using it, the equipements days are counted

and Redsound = awesome , top quality make, definetely a thing to try out
they are real real good but I've never tried any

1. ... ...hmmm i thought eveyone (except for a few) hated the 600??? Well...im not sure why its so good..it just is...its the way the its laid out. The way the eq knobs fell just right. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE SILVER FINISH . Its pretty indescribable

Once u've had a pioneer mixer in your hands you dont want to go back

2. I think that previously numark tables havent been of the best quality. They just recently introduced the TTX-1s and I believe this will change the way we think about numark. Of course...its going to cost you just as much as a Technics table. You get what you pay for is the old saying

3. Ive never personally used one. But I have seen them in catalogs. But heck...go to the store and play with it . Then tells us what you thought of it

The difference between the DJM-600 and 500 is that the 600 has a sampler, the 500 does not. The 600 has a cue-to-live fader for the headphones, i don't think the 500 does. They are good mixes cos they are so reliable and work very well. I just bought one myself. The only problem is that they are very expensive. I would recommend something cheaper and more basic if you are just starting out. I don't see the point in spending $1,000us for a mixer to start off.

As for the red sounds mixer. One cross fader for each frequency band. It's been done before but it sounds like an absolute nightmare. If you mix with channel faders, then its a complete waste, and if you mix with the cross fader, can you imagine having to move three at once. Get fucked, that's way too much effort. Besides, that's what the eq's are for on your mixer. Sounds like an absolute waste of money to me. Just a gimick. My recommendation...... don't even bother with it. Get something that's tried and tested and simple to use.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ LIQUID 1. ... ...hmmm i thought eveyone (except for a few) hated the 600???

I wouldn't say that... I don't think anyone would deny that the DJM-600 (and the 500) looks great, and is laid out fantastically.

The problem with the Pioneer mixers is that they just haven't got the build quality and the sound quality that the price would suggest. I have heard countless horror stories of faders failing a couple of months down the line, eq knobs breaking and the sampler and effects refusing to work. For a mixer in this price range, these sorts of problems shouldn't happen. The circuit boards inside are mounted horizontally - this means that if any liquid spills into the mixer, it will pool on the circuit board and ruin the electronics. If the boards were mounted vertically, like in many other high-priced mixers, then the liquid would just run straight off and there wouldn't be a problem.

Also, the sound quality just isn't up to the level of the Vestax's and Allen & Heaths of the world. Vestax mixers are generally cheaper than Pioneer mixers and tend to offer much better sound quality and better all round build quality. Allen & Heath mixers are almost unbeatable in terms of sound quality, and build quality is equally impressive, and they only cost slightly more than the Pioneers.

When it comes to TT's, if you are looking for high-quality, excelent decks then get Technics. Those new Numarks are overpriced for what they are, and are at least as expensive as Technics. The torque issue is arguable, but it is generally accepted that Technics have the best SUSTAINED torque above pretty much all other decks. There is a lot more to go wrong with those Numarks, and they haven't had the long-term bashing and survival testing as Technics.

As for the Redsound mixer, I havn't used it so I can't comment on it. It looks nice, but I personally wouldn't buy it because I use the volume faders for mixing, and not the crossfader. Three crossfaders would be a waste of time for me.

quote:

Originally posted by DJTJ Allen & Heath mixers are almost unbeatable in terms of sound quality, and build quality is equally impressive, and they only cost slightly more than the Pioneers.

the a&h xone:32 costs less than the pioneer djm-500. yes, it lacks the 4th channel (xone32 = 3 channel box) and assignable crossfader, but other than that, it kicks the djm500 straight in the nuts in terms of MANY things! It can also be fitted with a pennes & giles crossfader that has an AWESOME feel and will last a LOT longer than a DJM carbon-rail fader

A DJM500 goes for about $740 new here in the states.. I paid $630 for my a&h xone:32 (NEW) and it's just a better box, IMHO.

yes.. a&h build quality is amazing. my xone32 has been through a number of parties and it's still like new. EQ's are not scratchy, and the P&G fader is still like new. even the channel faders are krystal. the only wear has been on the cue pan fader, which you can hear *slightly* crackle now only if you listen for it .. i think i need to stop slamming it back and forth, that part wasnt meant for abuse...

-mer

Yeah, the reason the DJM's are so popular is the hands on layout, and the fact you get an all in one package for what you pay. You don't only get a mixer, but also a effector and/or sampler.
But that also has it's drawbacks. If you're cramming a lot of electronics together in a small box, you'll very likely have interference. That's also why the DJM500 is sounding just a tad cleaner than the 600 (600=one more piece of electronics in the same space, more interference=noisier). Most people won't notice however, and the DJM's still sound better than most budget brands (gemini, numark and the likes).

But if you're a maximum quality freak like me, a DJM simply isn't enough. I'm more of a "get the best piece of kit in each department apart" approach. That's why I got my Xone:62. It kicks the opposition's b*tt big time (and frankly even the 32 with it's 4th EQ band), but quality has a price...
One thing you'll notice that the best sounding mixers all have the minimal approach. The Xones and Ranes are most flagrant examples. They understand that if you choose few but high quality components you'll get better sound. The fewer the better (that's why the EQ panels on the Rane MP2016 and the Xone:V6 are optional).

Ok, what was your second question again. Oh yeah, TT's. Well you gotta understand there is one constant in the turntable domain for 20 years already now : the SL1200. It's Excellency has been dominating the market for two decades, that's right. Any competitor's turntable will eventually compared to the SL. And fact is, most TT's just don't stand the comparison. On themselves the turntables aren't that bad, but when you have a peek at what the SL gives, it's obvious you'll want to go for the best. Of course that will change sometime, but the main thing that's still only for the SL to claim is reliability, and that's not likely to change soon, as you can't say something is reliable by using it for 2 years or so.

The redsound mixers are fun, pretty good sounding, especially the trifader is cool, but it's definately not on par with the major players in the dj league (Pio, A&H, Ecler, Rane, Cloud, ...).

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Thy Yeah, the reason the DJM's are so popular is the hands on layout, and the fact you get an all in one package for what you pay. You don't only get a mixer, but also a effector and/or sampler. That's why I got my Xone:62. It kicks the opposition's b*tt big time (and frankly even the 32 with it's 4th EQ band), but quality has a price...

exactly. all in one package is big plus for trasporting it and not having 50,000 pieces of hardware, but comes with the drawbacks you mentioned.

so how is the 4th band EQ, how exactly does it work out?

from what I understand, the low EQ is the low bass (drums, etc), the low-mid is the bassline (whommmppp), mid mid is a regular mid EQ, and the high speaks for itself ?

so how's that factor into transitions? do you find yourself working both the low and mid-low EQ to cut out the bottom end, or does the bottom low knob do the trick? I'd like to try one (the 62), but i cant find one local. I love my little 32, but soon i might have to upgrade (just added a CD deck, planning on adding a second CD deck, and another PC so I can drop MP3s and other digital audio into the mix, so i will *need* the 62) -- but that 4 band EQ kinda scares me.

-mer

quote:

Originally posted by DJ LIQUID 3. Ive never personally used one. But I have seen them in catalogs. But heck...go to the store and play with it . Then tells us what you thought of it

I wish I could play with them.. none of the retailers around here carry them, so its an order or not order situation...

Also, I don't know if anyone has read their site, but you can swap out the trifader - (its completely removeable, they are rolling out an effects pack with a single crossfader, a bpm module with a single crossfader, and a couple of other nifty tools).

They also make an equivolent model to Pioneers EFX-500, with beat-matching effects.

Got another question for you all...

If I get an efx500, do I really need the DJM 600

pick at that one and let me know...

Also, just so you know, I've played on techs.. I love em, they kick booty. I was just wondering on a cheap alternative as I start out. (like the Numark tt-1650's)

Please comment, and thanks again for the info.

Also, I started checking out the pricing for the Allen/heath mixers... anyone know where I can get a lil more info/specs...

thanks gang

if you get the efx-500, then don't get the djm-600. You're wasting your money. Getting something of good quality with an external effects send and return line.

I think a pcv-275 or something would be good.

Allen & Heath homepage for more info

http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/

i really can't add more than is already said, but the djm-600 has proven itself as an industry workhorse

it has everything you need, plus effects and a sampler

as for the allen and heath with the 4 band eq...
i've used the 464, and it's great, the 4th band gives you that much more ceativity

as for the TTs
i've got the numark TT-2010? (i can't remember ATM, i'm drunk...)

it's great as a starter, gives you practice, but i'm planning on upgrading soon

and the tri-fader.... too much more work, the 3 band eq is enough, dont't need more

Meridian, yeah basically the 4th band works like you said, highs, hi mids (for the overall presence of the sound), lo mid (more the bottom end of the lead synths, but more important, the attack of the bassdrum) and the low (the bassline and bottom end of the kick).

How to use the eq, you can't really use one method, as it depends on the tunes (like always), but you have way more control on smoothing everything out (for example mixing a tune with a ripping kick and one with a smooth one, you can smooth it beyond belief).

At first the eq's will be a little difficult to handle because of their massive assymetry (let's say you can turn down the knobs to about 9 o' clock just for some detail tweaking, the actual cutting only starts about that setting), but it's indeed a very powerful tool.

If you have enough channels but want more eq options, you can add Electrix EQ killers on your setup (they are sold almost for nothing in the US nowadays, lucky bastards). If you need more channels also, sure feel free to get a 62, you won't be disappointed at all.

Just a note, the xfader on the 62/464 is not as sharp as on the 32, this is because the mixers are designed for mixing mainly. For fast scratches you'll have some sort of delay. But fear not, as Dj Thy has got a way (from the tech guys of Allen&Heath) to sharpen the curve a big deal (soldering skills needed). If someone is interested, PM.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Thy but it's indeed a very powerful tool. If you have enough channels but want more eq options, you can add Electrix EQ killers on your setup (they are sold almost for nothing in the US nowadays, lucky bastards). If you need more channels also, sure feel free to get a 62, you won't be disappointed at all. Just a note, the xfader on the 62/464 is not as sharp as on the 32, this is because the mixers are designed for mixing mainly. For fast scratches you'll have some sort of delay. But fear not, as Dj Thy has got a way (from the tech guys of Allen&Heath) to sharpen the curve a big deal (soldering skills needed). If someone is interested, PM.

cool. they sure do sound powerful.

electrix EQ killers? hmm... i'll have to look into this.

so the 32 has a sharper fader? intersting! i guess this is because the 32 has the knob-style fader curve? all i know, is when the fader is in full cut mode on my 32, it's fast and VERY agressive, perfect for scratching... a friend of mine that spun on my 32 commented it worked out quite well for scratching. i have heard reports the 62 fader has a bit of a delay, which i find almost hard to believe! My guess is the 32 is a smaller, but more refined design (the fader for the VCFs, the curve control on a knob, etc etc, little things like that) - i think the 32 is probably better suited for simple 2 turntable-only setups.

do you have the info from a&h handy about the modification? shoot me an email with it if it's handy, im sure someday I will end up with a 62 on my bench... i know it's certainly going to be my next mixer, and the 32 will probably be moved to the PC-based mixing setup I'm currently using an old stanton on.
mail addy: meridian5i2 -at- yahoo.com (-at- for spam reduction, you know what to do!)

-mer

Nah, it has not much to do with xfader design. It's mainly because they intended it to be that way on the 62. You see it's a mixologists mixer. If you were going to do turntablism, you wouldn't get such a big mixer anyway (the smaller the mixer the better, faster at reaching the TT's). So they just designed a double action xfader, one for the smooth mixers, and one for the more active mixers for some chops etc... But not turntablism. And the fact they have a mod at hand for the courageous people that still want maximum sharpness proves they made it that way deliberatly.

The 32 is more of an allrounder, good for mixing, and not too big for scratching either. So they decided to install a full adjustable curve, so everyone is happy.

I'll send you the mod (a little text, and a pdf file featuring the location of the capacitators and the resistances on the pcb).

The difference between the DJM-500 and 600 is larger than people think:

*Eq on 500 is -20 and on 600 -26db
*The eq is also not as accurate on the 500 than the 600, if you look at the khz they cut at, the 600 has the standard khz rating
*500 has no record output which can be annoying
*600 has less redundant inputs and outputs than the 500
*600 has sampler and i think 2 extra effects (?)
*600 has the little "crossfader" knob and is VERY useful.. you can adjust the volume of each when heard together if you know what i mean
*500 doesnt have crossfader curves which do come useful on the 600

I would definately pay the extra $$$ for the 600.
Though a A%H Xone:32 is always good

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