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Put up or shit up

If this thread doesn't belong here, oh well. This seems to be the most read forum in here. I have a major issue with people who claim to be DJs who find the need to critique other DJs styles, mixes, etc... I am seeing more and more comments by those on this forum and others that are all negative. People find the need to rip apart DJs, producers and their performances. My question is this, how many of those people are WORKING DJs?? How many of them are making the money and getting the recognition that the big DJs are??? Probably not many. I have my style and I follow those with the same style. I can choose to not listen or like other's style, but to say that they suck is not my place. When I am making 25K to play at a club, then I can say what I want, but perched in my booth in my Apartment leaves me no right to dis someone elses style or the music they choose to play. That seems to be the problem with the world today, no one has the least amount of respect for others. Musis is an emotional medium. Some choose to spread it out in different ways and different styles. This was sparked from a thread on another forum regarding Barthez. One member announced he loved Barthez. Another member proceeded to make this guy feel like he should be banned from the electronic music world. Think about this, would you rather he be listening to N'Stink??? Respect others that love the music we love. It all comes from the same place..the heart...

I get killed

Nicely said mr scott.

I have my own style, I never use sleepers, I mix out fast after climaxes, I want the people to be dancing at all times, and it just me, and I get killed for doing it. So do your own thing, practice, when u get the big bucks fo runique style, spit it at ur dissers face

Nice words. Music is not about who's better or worse, it's about having a good time.
But please respect your own words. You contradicted yourself by mentioning "N'Stink". Even those are artists in some way, even tho they might not be your style (neither mine). Think about that.

Very good, how long did that take to type?

Firstly, I think you may have a spelling error in your thread title.

Secondly, I see nothing wrong with "critiquing" major DJs, even if no-one on this board has reached the same heights that they have. If you can't judge their style, technique or playlist, then how can you differentiate between these so-called "A List" DJs and that bloke called Barry who plays Abba remixes down at your local pub?

If you suggest that there is no element of discrimination in selecting the music you find enjoyable and those who happen to play it, then why do you listen to trance as opposed to rock music? Why do you listen to Ferry Corsten, hypothetically, instead of Tiesto, Goldie or N'Stink?

We all discriminate on a daily basis, in chosing that which we enjoy and that which we don't. If people - subjectively or objectively - can explain why they dislike a certain DJ, then why shouldn't they?

Halo: You are absolutely right and I respect that.

This world is ever growing and it needs the followers to keep pushing it until it is at the top. I feel that those from European countries do not have the same respect for American DJs/producers. I hate this because my style is that of European producers (German, British, Dutch). I feel that I am looked at as a follower instead of a leader. I hope that everyone will begin to realize that America has promise in the electronic music world and can some day be considered equal. This is my opinion and I am open for comments. These feelings are based on comments that I have observed in other forums and magazines.

quote:

If this thread doesn't belong here, oh well. This seems to be the most read forum in here. I have a major issue with people who claim to be DJs who find the need to critique other DJs styles, mixes, etc... I am seeing more and more comments by those on this forum and others that are all negative. People find the need to rip apart DJs, producers and their performances. My question is this, how many of those people are WORKING DJs?? How many of them are making the money and getting the recognition that the big DJs are??? Probably not many. I have my style and I follow those with the same style. I can choose to not listen or like other's style, but to say that they suck is not my place. When I am making 25K to play at a club, then I can say what I want, but perched in my booth in my Apartment leaves me no right to dis someone elses style or the music they choose to play. That seems to be the problem with the world today, no one has the least amount of respect for others. Musis is an emotional medium. Some choose to spread it out in different ways and different styles. This was sparked from a thread on another forum regarding Barthez. One member announced he loved Barthez. Another member proceeded to make this guy feel like he should be banned from the electronic music world. Think about this, would you rather he be listening to N'Stink??? Respect others that love the music we love. It all comes from the same place..the heart...

*clap-applause*... well said man! .. i was getting pretty sick of all the dj bashing also.

ftnb: Whew! Thank you for that. I was expecting some negative reactions to my statements. It is a relief that people see what I see and feel what I feel. Cheers!

constructive criticism i applaud
bashing is a whole differen't story tho

I agree, however, I rarely read anything constructive. When I critique a set, I comment on the track selection and the energy. People find the need to comment on every nook and cranny of the actual mix. We are involved in a highly technincal practice. No one is perfect (Even PVD!). It is beyond me how a bedroom DJ at best has the sack to dis a DJ/producer that has the ability, stamina and skill to play for hours and hours in a packed club. I mean, I can't stand Oakenfold, but he is what he is for a reason and I respect that. It doesn't mean he sucks. I guess there are people that see and hear something I don't. It is like attractions to the opposit sex...I may not find your girlfriend attractive, and you are obsessed with her. Am I gonna tell you she is ugly???

quote:

Originally posted by Strike constructive criticism i applaud bashing is a whole differen't story tho

Right said.

Why should people not speak what's on their minds, postive or negative? Does it really effect you that much to see someone criticize a DJ? I don't worry about what other people think or like, I worry about what I like. My advice to you is, don't take these boards too seriously.

While I in no way enjoy mindless dj-bashing, I have a few problems with what you are saying.

First of all, when people say something "sucks" it's just their opinion. They aren't making some kind of profound attack on a person who doesn't share their point of view, they're just saying that they don't like it.

Second, to suggest that a person has no right to judge a DJ unless he/she has attained similar accolades does not make any sense. Consider:
1. I can say I do not like a particular dish even though I am not a chef.
2. I can disapprove of the actions of political leaders, though I myself am not one.
3. I can frown upon a serial killer, despite my lack of experience in his field.

You don't have to be able to cook the meal to get the right to say whether or not you like its taste. You don't have to be an elected official to disagree with the legislation they are proposing. You don't have to have killed anyone to say you believe that it's wrong. And you don't have to be a professional DJ to validate your analysis of a DJs talents.

When people on the forums cross the line and start personally attacking another person for their opinions, I will agree they have gone too far. But merely expressing their own harms no-one, while it allows the community to better understand the broad spectrum of opinions on any given topic.

Cheers,

Arbiter

quote:

Originally posted by DavidScott No one is perfect (Even PVD!).

Now that's just going too far, there's no need to lie to put your point across... *waits to be flamed*

Well said Arbiter.

What sort of a forum would this be without people willing to state thir opinion, even if it does - at times - undermine the pedestal on which you have placed these DJs? How can you suggest that members of this forum are unable to properly judge the flaws of a DJ, when you feel that you are well enough equipped to pass judgements on their positive qualities?

I agree entirely that unjustified flaming serves only to the detriment of this board, but how can you say that disappoval levelled at a DJ - if it is backed up - is wrong or in any way detrimental?

quote:

Originally posted by halo Nice words. Music is not about who's better or worse, it's about having a good time. But please respect your own words. You contradicted yourself by mentioning "N'Stink". Even those are artists in some way, even tho they might not be your style (neither mine). Think about that.

i'm glad halo picked up on this. you did totally just contradict yourself. How can you sit there and criticise N sync...when u urself haven't fucked britney spears and made ur millions blah blah blah. get my point?

not that i like n' sync anyway.


This has been a very interesting topic and there have been some brilliants arguments.

All points well taken and respected. I did realize my contradiciton and am disappointed that I even said it. I actually got what I intended to get out of this thread. Honest, opinoins of those who share the same love for music as I do. I have them same amount of respect for every DJ famous or practicing. We are all in it for a reason, and as I metioned earlier, fo rthe music. Thank you for those who made me look at my words and clarify my opinions.

It's the first time I've seen in this board someone critizing other for saying pop is shit.. hehehe

concerning the topic.. well, can't we criticise DJ's ? If no-one criticised their work, they couldn't improve based on the people's reaction.. though some people do really cross the line and attack them instead of criticising. that's bad.

Lol, you can't be serious can you?

The mindless dj bashing is one story... but come on?

"When I am making 25K to play at a club, then I can say what I want, but perched in my booth in my Apartment leaves me no right to dis someone elses style or the music they choose to play."

Hell yeah it does. As long as you aren't ignorant and have some musical knowledge, you have the right to an opinion. The fact that they're making 25 grand a night gives you even more of a right. Because these dj's are supposedly the best in the world, they have to be critiqued... against very harsh standards! That's the way the world works... we're talking everything, not just music.

Are you trying to tell me that if I come in and paint your house, and I do a horrible job, you can't criticize me? I'm not a painter, but you still have the right... you're paying me money! And what if you hired the most expensive painters in your city, and they do a slightly better job than I did. Are you gonna criticize? Nooo... it's not fair to criticize the professional painters, because they're professional... they make 500 bucks an hour...

Come on, think about it. And i'm in no way defending all the people that find in popular to hate oakenfold, or tiesto, or whomever... because I like these dj's, but your argument is no good.

I agree with DavidScott

I think that the distinction between having an opinion and berating someone else's has been disappearing on this board lately. And that is a real shame.

I am in no way saying we should not critique these DJs. Obviously everyone has their likes and dislikes. I am referring to those who downright bash them. Criticism is definately a must, as said earlier. How can anyone improve without it? There are comments that people make that make me think how good their skills are. The top jock that make the big money are expected to play well and in most cases, Ice cold -- no mistakes! Just like a pro sports player...they need to earn that paycheck. I have followed certain forums without getting invloved and have observed peoples comments and that is where this thread comes from.

Re: Put up or shit up

quote:

Originally posted by DavidScott If this thread doesn't belong here, oh well. This seems to be the most read forum in here. I have a major issue with people who claim to be DJs who find the need to critique other DJs styles, mixes, etc... I am seeing more and more comments by those on this forum and others that are all negative. People find the need to rip apart DJs, producers and their performances. My question is this, how many of those people are WORKING DJs?? How many of them are making the money and getting the recognition that the big DJs are??? Probably not many. I have my style and I follow those with the same style. I can choose to not listen or like other's style, but to say that they suck is not my place. When I am making 25K to play at a club, then I can say what I want, but perched in my booth in my Apartment leaves me no right to dis someone elses style or the music they choose to play. That seems to be the problem with the world today, no one has the least amount of respect for others. Musis is an emotional medium. Some choose to spread it out in different ways and different styles. This was sparked from a thread on another forum regarding Barthez. One member announced he loved Barthez. Another member proceeded to make this guy feel like he should be banned from the electronic music world. Think about this, would you rather he be listening to N'Stink??? Respect others that love the music we love. It all comes from the same place..the heart...

I agree to a certain extent i have to agree with strike where constructive is good bashing has no place. But as far as major djs go i think neone and everyone has the right to say wat they please i mean havent u ever said this guys sux or man who the hell booked this character. for instance scooter is the most annoying producer on the planet and that being said who has it hurt? is scooter now crying? No sir hes not hes continuing to produce the garbage he makes and continues raking in the bux from the deaf. So hey i understand if u get upset if someone bashes u the bedroom dj for i mean ure just a bedroom dj not a big tyme guy and thas where the bashing comes on major djs there getting paid that much to suck? my friend i certainly do not think so.

Nah, I will continue to bash deejays because if you are world reknown you are expected to be that much better. If i like a deejay's performance that i see or hear, i'll tell you, if i don't like a deejay's performance...i'll happily tell you why ie. Parks and Wilson's tuneless prog deadland Essential Mix from earlier this year...HORRIBLE!....i've lost respect for them. Most deejays love criticism (whether they will admit it or not), it tells them what they can improve on and what they do well. Lots of big name deejays read the boards on here for that exact reason to find out what others think of their performances.

Re: Put up or shit up

well i don't see anything wrong in criticizing a DJ/producer's skill/style, but name-calling, and excessive bashing is a completely different story. when ppl say, for example, "Ian van Dahl my ass!" or "Seb Fortaine sucks!" it just means they don't like them, so don't take it literally and get uptight also, if a superstar DJ is popular enough to receive global acclaim, what makes him/her immune to criticisms from non-supporters?

quote:

Originally posted by DavidScott My question is this, how many of those people are WORKING DJs?? How many of them are making the money and getting the recognition that the big DJs are??? Probably not many.

so you're saying, we have no right to criticize professional DJs because we aren't? wow, since when does expressing one's opinion require an admission? what is a forum for if we can't speak out?

I don't have a problem with people criticising DJs/music. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. What IS irritating on the other hand, is when those people try and ram their opinions down your throat and refuse to accept that you might not agree with them.

Just because someone has a different taste in music from you doesn't mean you should roast them.

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