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Posted by Jah on Sep-15-2002 08:20:

bpm counters advanced...

believe me i am a firm believer of doin it by ear but i was wondering if any of you guys who have a bpm counter and are maybe doin a really important mix... double check it ? there not very good for breaks eh

Posted by Spin Doctor on Sep-15-2002 11:39:

Nope, they�re just not accurate enough. Besides as you said it�s much better to be able to do it by ear!

Posted by hey cheggy on Sep-15-2002 12:52:

I've got one on my mixer (600), and the thing is useless. It goes up and down the whole time by as much as 2 BPM, which is quite a lot (over 1% on the slider)

Posted by matt_a on Sep-15-2002 12:55:

Geez I would never bother. After a few weeks and you can beatmix by ear you may as well chuck it out. How much do they cost?
$200 Aus?
That's 10 records!
I'd rather the 10 records any day!

Posted by Dj Flesch on Sep-15-2002 13:03:

There isn't one BPM that is that accurate availible on a mixer. That is because a general algorithm has to be written for every song in existance with a bass beat and it is not ment to be used with something that doesn't have a consistant bass beat, ie breaks. No one should ever try to beat match soley with a BPM, but that is not why BPMs come on most nice mixers. It is to help you get a close call, very fast. Some people have told me on these forums that they can beat match a pair of tracks in like 15 seconds. I think that is bullshit--at least until I see it. It takes me about 10-15 seconds to switch over all the cue buttons and knobs, volumes and cue up the next track all even before I can start beat matching! Then it will take me about a minute (I haven't timed myself) to make sure that the track is absolutely beat matched, and even then, I'm checking to make sure most of the way up to the mix. But the quicker you can beat match, the more time that you have to set up effects, loops, third tracks! etc. You get my point. The better djs can beat match tracks like a mofo, or keep them in beat match just by adjusting the vinyl. That is a little bit harder to do on cds, but it's also a new technology, so maybe it will get there one day.

Anyway, as I was saying, BPMs are only there to get a close estimate--nothing more.

Posted by hey cheggy on Sep-15-2002 13:14:

people can beatmatch in 15 seconds. But you need more time to check to make sure they are still on later on.

I remember seeing Eric Morello play at home. The guy didn't even beatmatch for two seconds. He just threw it in and shook that big black head of his to the beat

Posted by Dj-Steve on Sep-15-2002 20:31:

Posted by Dmatrox on Sep-15-2002 22:51:

Posted by DJ Dowlz on Sep-16-2002 01:58:

BPM counters are pretty useless atm, they'll need to be 0.1bpm accurate before becoming practical.

Anybody know whether the auto beatmix on that pioneer all-in-one system works?

Posted by OBC on Sep-16-2002 23:14:

autobpm match....

I dunno bout the pioneer all-in-one...

The numark cdn-88 (the red dual cd player)auto match function is extrememly close to perfect... I got to play around with it for a coupla hours, and it definately takes the difficulty out of dj'ing...
the fun too, but if ya like to cheat, check it out sometime

oh and.. watch bad boy bill sometime...

he can actually beatmatch in a 5 count

(I'm sure he's played the same set so much that he just knows...)

at nocturnal wonderland last year, I saw him put a record down, and spin it around twice then crossfade in, perfect mix, absolutely flawless... I'm sooo jealous!

peace!

Posted by Dj Flesch on Sep-16-2002 23:31:

quote:
Originally posted by hey cheggy
people can beatmatch in 15 seconds. But you need more time to check to make sure they are still on later on.

I remember seeing Eric Morello play at home. The guy didn't even beatmatch for two seconds. He just threw it in and shook that big black head of his to the beat

To get technical, if you still have to "check to make sure they are still 'on'" then your tracks aren't beatmatched, the beats are just in sync. This is cool, but you can't transition slowly when you do this. You have to cut quickly like they do in breaks. I can get two tracks that are close in BPM to be in sync and make a quick transition, though I cannot do this if I'm going to make a 20-50 second transition like I usually do. Since we ARE on tranceaddict.com, I'm gearing my comments on trance djs not other genres of music. I know that other djs CAN sync the beats and transition in just a few seconds, though that is irrelevent to TA.com IMO.

Therefore, in my original post BPMs are still a nice tool to have to get a general idea of how close the tracks are to being beat matched, though nothing more....

Posted by JohnSmith on Sep-16-2002 23:35:

Yeah, i think that bpm counters are a TOOL that can be used to make DJing easier. so that you can concentrate on getting other tracks to go into the mix, setting up samples, running the lights, or whatever.

However, this does not in any way mean that a DJ should not be able to match a beat manually with the ears!

think of a rock climber, his main skill is climbing rocks. but yet, he uses ropes to hold on, so that just in case he falls, he is OK.

anyway, that's just how i feel about them. that's why i bought a mixer WITHOUT beat counters for my first mixer, and mix the old fashioned way with my ears.

i have tried what is widely regarded as the best BPM counter in the world, on the DJM500, and i didn't think it was precise enough. I can do better with my ears. allthough, it's pretty damn close, and can help a lot, especially the way it lets you time the effects to the BPM.

in my opinion, the best BPM counter, would be a simple device where you could hook everything up with a wire only carrying the beat of the music, just a pulse of electricity on every beat, that would indicate the beat. you could set any device to be the master, and everything would just automatically sync to that. you could even have it linked to your body somehow, so YOU were the master tempo.. then you could bounce up and down in a mix between two records, and both would get faster as you bounced faster.. imagine that.. ah Djing fantasies.

Posted by JohnSmith on Sep-16-2002 23:38:

Re: autobpm match....

quote:
Originally posted by OBC

at nocturnal wonderland last year, I saw him put a record down, and spin it around twice then crossfade in, perfect mix, absolutely flawless... I'm sooo jealous!

peace!

I have heard from a number of people, that bad boy bill has all his vinyls repressed at the exact same BPM. that's why he can do this.

he plays 62 tracks an hour sometimes!

anyway, bad boy bill ROCKS, i'd love to see him live.

Posted by DJ Ezzian on Sep-19-2002 22:29:

My Equipment is 2 vestax pdt5000,2 CDJ100s and one DJM300.

When i first start mixing for like a year ago I learned from some guys that the BPM should be at the same (like 139 and 139), so I realy started to focusing on that, and I believed that if yhe BPM was the same the rest would go smooth. BUT NO WAY!!!!!!
Almost evey mix FUCKED UP BIG TIME!!, of course i was lucky some time when the tracks had just perfect speed.

But now I use the same equipment and when I turn on the mixer the first thing I do is to turn of the BPM

What I mean with this is you should trust your ear, and not think so much about the BPM, I know It`s sound crazy to you beginners, but I have been there and you should try to learn to focusing on the speed and just take your time to get the two tracks in the same tempo. The time you use to get the time right will go faster and faster

Hope that helped someone out of the BPM trouble)

DJ Ezzian

(BPM Is almost just trouble for new DJ talents