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-- Some questions I have about mixing with vinyl records
Some questions I have about mixing with vinyl records
So I've been mixing records seriously for about 6-7 months now and finally I'm at a point where I feel really comfortable with it and I can nail really solid mixes like 80 percent of the time (and I think a lot of the 20% comes from making poor choices with regards to which records to play).
With that said, there are still some things I'm just not sure about, and would like to have clarified if possible by someone with more experience.
1. Determining the proper tone arm weight.
Is this something that's really down to the individual record I'm playing? I generally don't put a lot of weight on my records, but I notice sometimes when I play one I'll hear really loud pops. Is this a result of putting too much weight on?
2. Why do some records slip so much more easily than others?
Is this purely due to the record's thickness? Because unless I haven't been paying close enough attention, I haven't necessarily noticed a correlation. I may be wrong. But generally I get irritated when a record slips very easily (i.e. virtually no resistance). Is there something that can be done?
3. Black vinyl vs. clear/colored vinyl
I don't really understand the big debate here. I've generally had good experiences with my clear and colored vinyl, save for one UQ record that just skips like crazy so I have to put more weight on it). I find colored records don't tend to generate as much static so they attract less dirt. I've never really noticed anything about them not sounding as good though. But I have heard they don't last as long.
4. Playing 2 tracks that are the same BPM at zero pitch
I find that when I'm playing, say two records that are 120 bpm (which happens quite frequently) at zero pitch, I have a pretty hard time keeping the mix tight. Is this more a problem with my pitch or is this something that is actually common? Because I find that pitch movements are not as precise right near the middle. In other words I'm finding it easier to mix two tracks that are a different bpm than two tracks that are the same bpm if the pitch fader is at zero.
Those are my questions for now and would greatly appreciate if anyone could shed some light on these things.
I'll try and answer these as best I can seeing as I have played with and collected vinyl for well over a decade.
1. It largly depends on the cart and stylus you use and doesn't really have much to do with particular records at all. The more worn out a stylus becomes, the more you will notice a tendecy for skipping to occur, so you may need to look at using the anti-skate dial.
The pops I think you're referring to probably have more to do with dust being burned into the vinyl, which may have initially been caused by too much weight, but it is largly unavoidable over time with repeated plays.
2. Well I think there's a couple of factors at play here, 1st and foremost the actual weight of the peice of vinyl. Also you might find some records to be slightly dished, where one side will seemingly slip too much and the other side not enough. This is one upside to buying records from a store as opposed to online. You can see the condition of the vinyl before you buy it.
3. Agree that there's not a really noticable difference apart from aesthetics here. Coloured releases may be somewhat more collectable to some people. But usually I'd say it comes down to press quality. It's a bit hard for me to say, perhaps someone with pressing experience can shed some more light on this.
4. Wow and flutter, unavoidable aspects of playing with vinyl, you'll never get 100% stability even with the most expensive and revered turntables. This will cause slight drifting even with the pitch locked.
Hope this helps.
What Teez said. I'll even add to it.
1.- When you buy the cartridge, it usually comes with a little piece of paper that tells you the recommended settings for it. However, many DJ's, including my self, adjusts them to out liking. That's because some DJ's are more heavy handed than others. I have big heavy hands, so I need some tough settings or else the needle will be skipping like crazy.
I use the Shure M44-7's and these are the settings that work for me. Again, they work for me and might not be best for you.
I set my tonearm height so that the tonearm is parallel to the platter. Being at an angle is a bad thing, it has to be straight. I take out the weight, than put it back in slowly. When I put it back in, I push it until it clicks. When it clicks, I set the weight to zero (0) and spin it clockwise until it gets to 2.5 grams. I set up the anti-skating to around 2.5-3. It depends on the turntable.
2.- Some records also have a bigger hole than others. That's why many times you'll see DJ's put a piece of paper in the center hole. The bigger the hole, the looser the record. Another factor is the weight and thickness of the record. You can also try buying thicker slipmats.
3.- Color has nothing to do with the record. It's all looks.
4.- Your turntables might need to be calibrated. If you bought them new, they should be exact. If you bought them used, they probably got messed with. When you take out the platter, there's a little hole that lets you adjust the pitch. It can actually make them +/-10%. I would leave it alone until you research it enough to feel comfortable on fixing the pitch. Also, some records are warped and that affects it too. They might look straight to you, but they could still be warped which can cause you to "ride the pitch." This is perfectly normal and it's a skill that needs to be learned.
If you have any other questions let us know.
Thanks guys! That's great info for me.
Woody - Never thought about the size of the hole but that makes so much sense! I'll look out for that in the future.
One more question - can I seriously damage a record by putting too much weight on the arm?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Adam420 Thanks guys! That's great info for me. Woody - Never thought about the size of the hole but that makes so much sense! I'll look out for that in the future. One more question - can I seriously damage a record by putting too much weight on the arm? |
i will get back to you when more sober, but this is a good thread
Here's a video I found that shows you how to level the tonearm. This is what I was talking about earlier.
This is how to adjust the weight on the turntable.
AntiSkating.
BTW, that guys has a lot of good videos about 1200's. He even shows you how to fix them.
https://www.youtube.com/user/viperfrank/videos?view=0
The 1200mk2 service guide is also worth having on hand, it never came with the decks but is full of good detailed info on them and how they're built.
It's a good reference if you ever need to do repair work or alterations like the pitch as Woody mentioned or even to replace the strobe and tracklights with new globes etc.
The info is easily transfered to 1210's too as they are virtually identicle apart from the colour.
here
Great videos! I have a problem now though....
I'm trying to adjust the tone arm height and on one turn table I can unlock it but the height mechanism is still locked and just won't budge and on the other one I can't even unlock it.
Has this ever happened to anyone?
It's frustrating because I had them worked on quite recently.
Ouch! Not sure why it's doing that since I've never had it happened to me. But, be careful because if you break it, the tonearm is the most expensive fix on a 1200. It's over $100 USD if you take it to a shop.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DjWoody I use the Shure M44-7's and these are the settings that work for me. Again, they work for me and might not be best for you. I set my tonearm height so that the tonearm is parallel to the platter. Being at an angle is a bad thing, it has to be straight. I take out the weight, than put it back in slowly. When I put it back in, I push it until it clicks. When it clicks, I set the weight to zero (0) and spin it clockwise until it gets to 2.5 grams. I set up the anti-skating to around 2.5-3. It depends on the turntable. |
Adam - I used the exact same videos when I set up my tables in November, good stuff. The anti-skating usually is around the same weight you set on your tonearm, but I doublecheck using the method the youtube d00d did everytime I take my cartridges out.
I encounter the same problem when mixing similar bpm records, but as the guy in this thread said earlier, it has to do the wow and flutter of the table itself.
great advice woody
Use ortofon needles, they are the best. If your using timecode go for the digit rack if not go for the nightclub mk2. Most needles and cartridges comes with a manual that shows its recommended tracking force. The more weight you use on the tonearm the more you will wear out your records. I put the most weight for better tracking with timecode vinyl.
My Shures are only a few months old I don't have $200 sitting around to spend on a pair of Ortofon needles when I don't really need them, as much as I'd like to. Plus I have Technics slip mats so with the Technics headshells the TTs look pretty badass 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Adam420 My Shures are only a few months old I don't have $200 sitting around to spend on a pair of Ortofon needles when I don't really need them, as much as I'd like to. Plus I have Technics slip mats so with the Technics headshells the TTs look pretty badass |
Oh, this reminds me of the 17 year old who sold me his 1200's so he can buy a pair of modified Vestax TTs with LED lights because they "look cooler".
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Adam420 Oh, this reminds me of the 17 year old who sold me his 1200's so he can buy a pair of modified Vestax TTs with LED lights because they "look cooler". |
It was probably an older model anyway.
| quote: |
| He's an idiot. |
I skimmed this and didnt see anyone mention
not all pieces are grooved as deep, I have some so shallow its hard to stop or pull them back.
Also I have, and this was the 80s, 2 exact same copies of a song but 1 was pressed in south america and 1 in europe and they count bpm wise 1-2 off from each other so its not always your decks.
If you find its off move out of locked at 0 and adjust your pitch slightly to even the 2 copies out for flange or whatever.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJuanHouston I skimmed this and didnt see anyone mention not all pieces are grooved as deep, I have some so shallow its hard to stop or pull them back. Also I have, and this was the 80s, 2 exact same copies of a song but 1 was pressed in south america and 1 in europe and they count bpm wise 1-2 off from each other so its not always your decks. If you find its off move out of locked at 0 and adjust your pitch slightly to even the 2 copies out for flange or whatever. |
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