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-- So, why exactly is everybody bi#ching about Logic?
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So, why exactly is everybody bi#ching about Logic?

Seems like I see a lot of bitch/moan threads and posts over the past few years about Logic, but I've never really paid attention to them, since I had never owned a Mac.....until now. I've got a local Logic user who wants to collaborate with me on a project, so I thought I'd look into buying it. So, can someone sum up for me in a nutshell (or a 40-pg rant thread, if you prefer), exactly why Logic has gone from being the "OMG, it's teh BEST DAW in the universe" to "Logic..."?

Truth is, I don't NEED Logic for this collab, but it might make it easier, $200 seems cheap for what you get, and I sorta like learning new DAWs (Logic is the only major DAW that I don't have any experience with). So, for the sake of discussion, rant away.

I know a couple of 'professional' users who complain about automation not being followed correctly and it sometimes forgetting what you tell it to do, but it's basically sound. Unlike say Live where the majority of people I know that use it have a list of complaints about all sorts of various issues.

I know far more people that use Logic without issue than with. I'll be buying it shortly too.

Logic?!? You mean Garageband+ ?

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Originally posted by Raphie Logic?!? You mean Garageband+ ?

That's just fucking stupid.

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Originally posted by Seandroid That's just fucking stupid.

I know it's a daw like many, but with a lot of overdue maintenaince, a lot of people think it's more garageband+ than the old Logic

Midi implementation is horrid. The only daw that requires you to route audio to another channel were you have an effect that needs to be controlled via midi. Any tool that is midi based will have a special chapter on logic. Cable giuys midi shaper has to send thr midi out, then back in the program via a virtual midi port you create in the os.

That is its main draw back. And its awful single core bug. Not sure why people think it is better at midi. I would saw it is probably the worst. And it isnt an issue woth AU format. AU cam support what most daws do, logic just doeant.

not to mention issues with backwards compatibility

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Originally posted by tehlord I know a couple of 'professional' users who complain about automation not being followed correctly and it sometimes forgetting what you tell it to do,

When you say "correctly", so you mean something like "it responds 0.000005ms late" (or something similar that I could live with), or do you mean that it is actually broken?

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Midi implementation is horrid. The only daw that requires you to route audio to another channel were you have an effect that needs to be controlled via midi. Any tool that is midi based will have a special chapter on logic. Cable giuys midi shaper has to send thr midi out, then back in the program via a virtual midi port you create in the os. That is its main draw back. And its awful single core bug. Not sure why people think it is better at midi. I would saw it is probably the worst. And it isnt an issue woth AU format. AU cam support what most daws do, logic just doeant.

So, you're referring specifically to MIDI effects, right? In other words, it will send/receive MIDI to/from my hardware controllers just fine and I'll be able to control soft synths without any annoying routing workarounds, right?

I just googled that single-core bug - sounds nasty.

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Originally posted by Allied Nations not to mention issues with backwards compatibility

I've run into that with many DAWs. It sucks, but I just sorta expect it whenever I upgrade anything.

So, here's a follow-up question, and be honest Logic users - is the bitching really just a case of Mac fanboy-ism, where they expect everything to be perfect and "just work" and when they find the teensiest little bug, they carry on like it destroyed their world (and don't tell that that doesn't happen - I've seen it with my own eyes)? Or, are these really serious issues?

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Originally posted by cryophonik When you say "correctly", so you mean something like "it responds 0.000005ms late" (or something similar that I could live with), or do you mean that it is actually broken? So, you're referring specifically to MIDI effects, right? In other words, it will send/receive MIDI to/from my hardware controllers just fine and I'll be able to control soft synths without any annoying routing workarounds, right? I just googled that single-core bug - sounds nasty.

Inserts on an instment cant receive or send midi without a pain in the ass workaround. So you endup with versions oif the plugin that are effects but loaded as instruments which you then have to route the audio to. Only instruments receive midi.

The cpu bug is incredibly annoying. 1 instance of zebra with a bunch of fx wilcripple a 12 core mac pro. There are work arounds. But it is rather annoying. The midi issue is awful for any type of music were you want live access to parameters. Again there are workarounds but a real pain in the ass.

There is not really a ideal situation on mac. I mean if you have 3 macs, then sure, its fantastic but cubase is logic without the short cummings. It is shit on mac tho.

OK, I think you scared me enough (and saved me $200). I've only got a MacBook Air (i5 version) so I'm think that putting Logic on it isn't the best idea, considering that I would primarily be using MIDI.

There arw workarounds but it is anmoying to the point that you decide not to try something because the workaround and its implementation zap your momentum. If you are doing very linear stuff with very standard modulations, it is fine. But if you want an lfo shaped controller whose amplitude is controlled via a mod wheel and you want that to control say 3 different parameters in different amounts, it will take you anywere from 30 to 60 minutes. Same thing in ableton maybe 5. logic really has the worst midi workflow oif any daw ive ever used.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney it will take you anywere from 30 to 60 minutes. Same thing in ableton maybe 5.

That's exactly why I bought Ableton again. It's quick/easy for MIDI work, best use of screen space for a laptop, etc.

I suppose it is the way you are using midi. For triggering librairies having different notes in the same region on different channels and batch editing stuff triggering an instrument, it is fine but only with instrments and in very specific ways that work great for traditonal music.

Kind of glitchy. Lots of CPU overload issues. If you're not running Mountain Lion there's Applescript that Autosaves you can run which is a lifesaver.
The automation sucks.
Flextime blows and it's almost easier/quicker to warp in Ableton.
And it hasn't been updated in years.

Besides that it's not really all that bad.

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Originally posted by top0ftheworld Kind of glitchy. Lots of CPU overload issues. If you're not running Mountain Lion...

I'm on Mountain Lion.

I'll just wait and see what the next version of Logic brings....whenever that may be.

Yikes. Everything will be buggy in that case. Snow leapord is still the best os for audio. There are no performance or functional gains in the later os.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Yikes. Everything will be buggy in that case. Snow leapord is still the best os for audio. There are no performance or functional gains in the later os.

yup. Logic 9 is optimized for Snow Leopard.
I would wait. Though you might be waiting a while for a Logic upgrade, been about 4 years now.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Yikes. Everything will be buggy in that case.

That's good to know...I think.

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Originally posted by top0ftheworld yup. Logic 9 is optimized for Snow Leopard. I would wait. Though you might be waiting a while for a Logic upgrade, been about 4 years now.

That's cool. Like I said, My only reason for considering it was this one collab and just for the sake of trying something new.

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Originally posted by cryophonik I've run into that with many DAWs. It sucks, but I just sorta expect it whenever I upgrade anything.

its especially bad with logic... probably one of the more annoying to go back in time and re-visit old projects.... ive never had any issues (3rd party plugs excluded) running old live projects on newer live versions. logic i have an issue every freaking time.

this isnt just me saying this - i know plenty of pros who have nixed logic because of this


logic is just so tedious, everything seems to take longer and the automation is a nightmare


id rather do all composition/arrangement/vibe work in ableton and then just go straight to pro tools for mixing and surgical eq stuff

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Originally posted by cryophonik I'm on Mountain Lion. I'll just wait and see what the next version of Logic brings....whenever that may be.

If it means anything I'm using Logic on a 15" MBP with Mountain Lion and it runs beautifully.

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Originally posted by Seandroid If it means anything I'm using Logic on a 15" MBP with Mountain Lion and it runs beautifully.

Logic 9?

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Originally posted by Seandroid If it means anything I'm using Logic on a 15" MBP with Mountain Lion and it runs beautifully.

Yo, I heard that means you suck at making tracks. My bros got tons of issues with Logic on Mountain Lion. They know what they are doing. They're in the industry and keep complaining.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Yikes. Everything will be buggy in that case. Snow leapord is still the best os for audio. There are no performance or functional gains in the later os.

Yo, this just shows how much Apple sucks. The more time they get, the worse they make things. Kinda like my buddy Antonio.

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Originally posted by cryophonik Logic 9?

Yup.

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Originally posted by Kyle_Jefferson Yo, I heard that means you suck at making tracks. My bros got tons of issues with Logic on Mountain Lion. They know what they are doing. They're in the industry and keep complaining.

I'm not sure I'm even going to bother dignifying that with a response.

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