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beat matched?

hi hi!!

i got few quick question to ask!!

i got my decks almost 2 month! but still not good at beat match,wuwu..~~

my question is...i beat matched 2 tunes together for like 2 bars..
,but after 2 bars,u can hear the beat is different..
so is that beat match? how many bars do i need to match them?

and i want to know,when mixing 2 songs, which bar do i drop the 2nd tune on first tune?like do i drop the first beat of my 2nd tune on first tune's last 16 bar or something?

last question.i practice like 1 hour a day..
is that enough?

hope any1 understand my quetions. my eng is not too good...

hehe you should have it for a bit more than 2 bars....

ideally it should be beatmatched for the entire length of the song.. IDEALLY...

in practice, the 2 tracks should be beatmatched for as long as your transition is [going to be]. or you could always make minor adjustments along the way, nothing wrong in that.

just keep practicing, it will all come to you naturally if you keep at it consistently.

p.s. as for your other question, it's a phrasing issue. i'm too lazy and its too late to type up a phrasing dissertation, try searching on the forums for "phrasing" or "phrase" etc..

p.p.s. yea i think 1 hour a day should be perfectly fine. in fact when i got my decks i was so obsessed that i spent much more than that practicing, though now i do about an hour a day or every other day, or when i can. sometimes longer when i have the time. (like now, when all my friends ran off to non-toronto based universities..bastards)

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode p.s. as for your other question, it's a phrasing issue. i'm too lazy and its too late to type up a phrasing dissertation, try searching on the forums for "phrasing" or "phrase" etc..

thanx for the reply man..

but whats about the phrasing issue? plz explain...somebody?

i read guild at reccess.co.uk.

but i still dont understand when to drop the record 2 to record 1
help plz....

This is something i wrote for another site, well part of it anyway, i took out all the audio samples, but I hope it helps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Before you start, you need to have an understanding of the basic structure of dance music. Genres such as house, trance, hardcore and techno run on what is called a 4/4 beat. This means that there are four beats to a bar. Each beat is hence, a quarter note. Now a phrase consists of 8 bars or 32 quarter notes, that is, 32 beats. If you listen to a song, you will notice that there is a change every 32 beats. Now this change may be very slight and subtle, such as the addition of an extra snare, or it could be something much more noticeable, such as the beat stopping all together as the song moves into a �breakdown�, that is, the part of the track where there is no beat. These can be seen on the record, being signified by slightly darker patches of vinyl. They usually look like rings going around the record. If you count the amount of beats from the start of the song to the first breakdown, you will notice that it is divisible by 32. For example, it might be 32 beats or 64 beats. It could be something much larger like 256 beats.

So what is phrase matching? Phrase matching is lining up the two songs so that they both start the phrase on the first beat. An example of a song not being phrase matched is shown below. Each number refers to the beat in the phrase. 1 refers to the first beat, 2 to the second, 3 to the third and so on:

1�2�3�4---5---6----7---8----9�10�11�12--19
6--7�8--9--10--11--12--13---14--15--16--17�18

The above is not phrase-matched, as the numbers do not line up with each other.
Below shows two beats that are phrase matched.

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12����29-30-31-32-1-2-3-4-5�
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12����29-30-31-32-1-2-3-4-5�

Can you see how the first beat of the phrase matched up with the first beat of the phrase with the other song. These two tracks are phrase matched. Remember, a phrase is 32 beats, so after 32 beats, the next phrase starts, hence the numbers go back to 1. If you listen to a song, you will notice that there is a change every 32 beats. This change may only be minor but it should be there.

Now, when you throw in a track, it is important that you throw it in on the first beat of the phrase, on top of the first beat of the phrase of the track that is already playing. This way, any changes that occur at the end of each phrase will happen together. So, when the outgoing track begins to die down in intensity, the incoming track will start to build up. These increases and decreases in intensity occur every 32 beats as well.

When to throw in the track. Well, preferably after the last breakdown. This means that you won�t get two tracks playing together but only one beat being heard. Say the intro on the incoming track is 4 phrases long, that is, 128 beats, and the outro of the outgoing track is 6 phrases long, that is, 192 beats, then thow the incoming track in after two phrases, that is, 64 beats. This is phrase matching. You could also throw it in after 96, but I would say either 128 or 192 would be preferable.

Next, it is important to take into consideration when throwing in the next track when playing trance, of where the melody of the outgoing track end and where it begins on the incoming track. It is important to make sure that they do not over lap. Therefore, if the melody ends after 64 beats from the breakdown on the outgoing song and begins after 32 beats on the incoming track, then throw it in either after 32 beats so that the melodies do not overlap as this will sound really bad.

Obviously, the goal is to have the songs transfer over a long period of time, but it can take months to be able to beatmatch to a level where you can have two songs matched for over a minute without needing to adjust. Don�t give up trying.

And teatea, 1 hour is okay for practicing, although it�s not an overly large amount. Just play when ever you feel like it, cos if you don�t want to mix or if you�re not in the mood, then it will only frustrate you. And don�t worry if it takes a while, there are plenty of people who like to say they could beatmatch in 2 weeks, but these people can�t beatmatch for shit. No offence to them, but after two weeks, you might think you�ve got it but you don�t. Your beatmatching will always improve, everyday, and then one day, it just clicks and you go up a level. Then three weeks later, you might click again and get better all of a sudden. Just keep in there dude, you won�t regret it.

hi hey ho ha...cheggy

i am getting better to understand what phrase now!
this is excatly what i want to know!!. i was looking the guild at recesss. com, but dont quite understand.

here is my question regarding on the phrase match,

how do u know that a tune that got how many phrase on outro?
do u write and memorize the # of phrase on each tune? or there has other ways?


and thanx for ur post!! it really encurage me a lot!!

Great Post

Great post Cheggy...

great Post

Yeah, I think being able to beatmatch like that is the first step in being a pro dj....(not like any ordinary dj)

quote:

Originally posted by teatea here is my question regarding on the phrase match, how do u know that a tune that got how many phrase on outro? do u write and memorize the # of phrase on each tune? or there has other ways?

Teatea, after practice, you will get to know you tracks, and when you can start a transition. It's really had to explain when to start a transition as every track is different. Like everybody says practice practice practice, it will all come with time. I'm sorry that I don't have any information to give to you, the only info that I can give you is, keep practicing and listening to you tracks, and you will begin to figure where you can start the transition, and most of all don't get down, it will come to you, just practice and next thing you know you will be mixing good and not even have to think about it.

Peas

ohh when you beatmatch it's not over when youv'e dropped tune 2 into tune 1.......the matching is never over untill tune 1 is completly outfaded

You will almost always have to make adjustments in the matching "on the fly" so try practicing that

the chance of matching 2 tunes 100% is small....very small...I don't even know if it exists with todays turntables and cd-players (to low accuracy)


so just train on adjusting it on the fly

The tricky thing about beat matching two songs is the tempo in most songs is never constant. I usually do a rough beat match job to the beginning of track #1 just to get a quick feel for the tempo. Then while track #1 is playing, i take this time to find a good point to start #2 and once i find it, i stop the motor on table #2 and keep it there. Assuming the song (trance), has a climax point, i always start doing more accurate beat matching after the climax point but be careful to beatmatch only with the beginning of track #2 because you can never assume the tempo of track #2 will always be constant. That means after 4 measures of beatmatching, if i still dont have it matched yet, i drop the needle back at the beginning and try again.

Of course, just like someone said earlier, just because the two tracks is matched for 4 measures, it doesnt mean itll be matched for more than that. But just because the beats are not matching, it doesnt mean that the tempos are different. Sometimes you just have to push track #2 ahead or delay it down with your finger and not the pitch. Dont always go to the pitch control to beat match. Youll just make things worse.

To push track #2, i usually take my finger and while keeping it on the record, gently spin the record faster then when the beats match, take your finger off. Ive also seen DJs actually tapping the record FORWARD to skip a beat up which unless youre careful, you can tap the record too hard and make things worse, or worse yet, you could make the needle jump and then youre FUCKED.
To slow it down, you can just apply pressure to the platter.

Just basic stuff, but i hope this helps.

wow....that guy wrote a lot. i think he said it best

quote:

Originally posted by teatea here is my question regarding on the phrase match, how do u know that a tune that got how many phrase on outro? do u write and memorize the # of phrase on each tune? or there has other ways? and thanx for ur post!! it really encurage me a lot!!

Okay, once you completely understand what i've talked about earlier, I want you to start thinking of time not in seconds but rather in distances. This is going to be hard to explain.

The majority of trance tracks take up the entire record. A lot of the time, the song will only take up half the record, but usualy, there is only one song per side. Not always the case i know, but for now, it's easier to assume that the songs take up the entire record face, that is, there is just the one song on the face of the record.

Okay, time can be measured in seconds, or in beats, which is very easy to do, you just count the beats. But you can also read the time of the record. Distances on the vinyl will be approximately the same length for all records for a certain period of time. For example, 64 beats might be 1 cm in length (radius), measured from the edge to the centre of the vinyl. Therefore, 64 beats will be about the same length on another record. This method is pretty accurate.

This might be hard to understand, but it's even harder to write so bear with me, you should get it by the end.

Okay, before you throw in the track, check to see where on the vinyl the melody starts to come in, or, if the song goes straight from the intro into the breakdown, check to see where the breakdown occures on the record. Also, check quickly to see "approximately" where the melody finshes at the end of the track. Now, seeing as though you would have checked this with the outgoing track as well (the one already playing), you know kind of where the melody finishes.

So, you can tell by looking at the records how far there is between the start of the incoming record and the first breakdown or beginning of the melody, and you can also tell how far it is between the end of the last breakdown and the end of the melody. So, its just a matter of judging how far you need to let the record play before you let it go so that everything falls into play.

For example, if the outgoing track has 2cm between the end of the last breakdown and the end of the melody (the beat keeps playing though, just the trancy parts are not there any more), and the incoming track has 1cm from the start of the song to the beginnning of the melody, then you need to wait AT LEAST 1cm before you can throw in the track, otherwise the songs will overlap their melodies and sound like crap.

A quick thing to note is that distances at the end of the record mean less beats/time than they do at the beginning of the record, so, always overestimate the time to wait to throw it in, becasue you can't go wrong with nbeing a little longer in the transfer as apposed to have everything sound crap due to you mixing two rifts together.

If you can understand this, congratulations, it was harder to explain than phrasing, but in order to pull it off, you really need to get your beatmatching skills down first. I suggest you leave this reply in the back of your mind and concentrate on beatmatching. Phrase matching should come to you pretty easily, but untill you can match two beats for over 128 beats, then i wouldn't worry about this, cos you need to be able to hold two tracks together for a long time. You'll find it will come to you naturally anyway, its all actually pretty simple.

I hope this helps, if not, feel free to ask more questions.

Thanx a bunch for your looong reply hey cheggy, that rocked!

Ive been looking for a good translation about what im been thinking
and that was just what i was looking for to understand the art of
mixing in a more.. explained way.

Anyway, about practicing, as someone said, do it when you feel like it.
Dont go to your decks with a stopwatch saying "okay, one hour from... now!"
If you feel like playing just 15 minutes, play 15 minutes or do as
I do on my weekends, spend 4 hrs at the decks and only leave because
they neighbor asks you too

This has probably been said before, but then just see it as a reminder
By the time you have sufficient skills in beatmatching, like hey cheggie said for about 128 beats, you will have developed a feel for house music, how tracks are build up etc. There are always exceptions of course, but most tracks have the same build-up. So by te time you are ready for phase matching, it will all be a lot easier then it seems now.
Good luck!

GreetZ, DC

Go check www.recess.co.uk for beatmatching and song structures (when to mix)
hope this helps
SeventSun------ He is the chosen one

quote:

Originally posted by hey cheggy This is something i wrote for another site, well part of it anyway, i took out all the audio samples, but I hope it helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Before you start, you need to have an understanding of the basic structure of dance music. Genres such as house, trance, hardcore and techno run on what is called a 4/4 beat. This means that there are four beats to a bar. Each beat is hence, a quarter note. Now a phrase consists of 8 bars or 32 quarter notes, that is, 32 beats. If you listen to a song, you will notice that there is a change every 32 beats. Now this change may be very slight and subtle, such as the addition of an extra snare, or it could be something much more noticeable, such as the beat stopping all together as the song moves into a �breakdown�, that is, the part of the track where there is no beat. These can be seen on the record, being signified by slightly darker patches of vinyl. They usually look like rings going around the record. If you count the amount of beats from the start of the song to the first breakdown, you will notice that it is divisible by 32. For example, it might be 32 beats or 64 beats. It could be something much larger like 256 beats. So what is phrase matching? Phrase matching is lining up the two songs so that they both start the phrase on the first beat. An example of a song not being phrase matched is shown below. Each number refers to the beat in the phrase. 1 refers to the first beat, 2 to the second, 3 to the third and so on: 1�2�3�4---5---6----7---8----9�10�11�12--19 6--7�8--9--10--11--12--13---14--15--16--17�18 The above is not phrase-matched, as the numbers do not line up with each other. Below shows two beats that are phrase matched. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12����29-30-31-32-1-2-3-4-5� 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12����29-30-31-32-1-2-3-4-5� Can you see how the first beat of the phrase matched up with the first beat of the phrase with the other song. These two tracks are phrase matched. Remember, a phrase is 32 beats, so after 32 beats, the next phrase starts, hence the numbers go back to 1. If you listen to a song, you will notice that there is a change every 32 beats. This change may only be minor but it should be there. Now, when you throw in a track, it is important that you throw it in on the first beat of the phrase, on top of the first beat of the phrase of the track that is already playing. This way, any changes that occur at the end of each phrase will happen together. So, when the outgoing track begins to die down in intensity, the incoming track will start to build up. These increases and decreases in intensity occur every 32 beats as well. When to throw in the track. Well, preferably after the last breakdown. This means that you won�t get two tracks playing together but only one beat being heard. Say the intro on the incoming track is 4 phrases long, that is, 128 beats, and the outro of the outgoing track is 6 phrases long, that is, 192 beats, then thow the incoming track in after two phrases, that is, 64 beats. This is phrase matching. You could also throw it in after 96, but I would say either 128 or 192 would be preferable. Next, it is important to take into consideration when throwing in the next track when playing trance, of where the melody of the outgoing track end and where it begins on the incoming track. It is important to make sure that they do not over lap. Therefore, if the melody ends after 64 beats from the breakdown on the outgoing song and begins after 32 beats on the incoming track, then throw it in either after 32 beats so that the melodies do not overlap as this will sound really bad. Obviously, the goal is to have the songs transfer over a long period of time, but it can take months to be able to beatmatch to a level where you can have two songs matched for over a minute without needing to adjust. Don�t give up trying. And teatea, 1 hour is okay for practicing, although it�s not an overly large amount. Just play when ever you feel like it, cos if you don�t want to mix or if you�re not in the mood, then it will only frustrate you. And don�t worry if it takes a while, there are plenty of people who like to say they could beatmatch in 2 weeks, but these people can�t beatmatch for shit. No offence to them, but after two weeks, you might think you�ve got it but you don�t. Your beatmatching will always improve, everyday, and then one day, it just clicks and you go up a level. Then three weeks later, you might click again and get better all of a sudden. Just keep in there dude, you won�t regret it.

Thanks for this. Uve given me a better understanding

Thanks

Mikey

i got my tables a month ago and I can beat match pretty good now.. just working on speed (how long it takes to match)

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