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Serato? Traktor? Which?.......

Alright Kids, I am gonna ditch my CDJ800's and just use my turntables...but before I get banned for doing a "which is better?" thread, I'm hoping this will turn in to a dicussion on the way things are going and where the hardware is at right now for DVS systems.

basically, I want as little screen interaction as possible. TBH, if I could just get a little box that had a tiny screen to show me the track name, duration and a waveform (like on a CDJ2000) I'd be happy, but I want to keep my Tech's and I don't think anyone is making this so I'm probably going to have to go with Serato or Traktor.

I want to hear from current users of both - some say the old SL1 boxes now sound like shit (as do others same about NI DJ interfaces).

And what's this Serato DJ thing about? Not scratch anymore. I can;t keep up.

Enlighten this Luddite of a DJ.

traktor is just not fun.

Might as well just trigger stuff in ableton.

Traktor.

I had both. With the new serato box you can change between 48 KhZ and 96. With traktor you have more options. Traktor uses cirrus logic converters and I don't know which serato has. It all comes down to preference. Try reading the manual on both. Honestly, I like traktor more.

vinyl sales is going up, why dont be a part of it one last time before you (and our entire generation and the clubbing industry) dies completely? Do you not remember how fucking awesome it is to dj without any digital crap? no screens, no buttons, just pure organic soup of analog noise and awesome 30*30cm2 paper covers that you remember what sounds like without needing to remember the artist name or song title or any of that crap? when music felt like art and djeing was somewhat respectable?

Re: Serato? Traktor? Which?.......

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Alright Kids, I am gonna ditch my CDJ800's and just use my turntables...but before I get banned for doing a "which is better?" thread, I'm hoping this will turn in to a dicussion on the way things are going and where the hardware is at right now for DVS systems. basically, I want as little screen interaction as possible. TBH, if I could just get a little box that had a tiny screen to show me the track name, duration and a waveform (like on a CDJ2000) I'd be happy, but I want to keep my Tech's and I don't think anyone is making this so I'm probably going to have to go with Serato or Traktor. I want to hear from current users of both - some say the old SL1 boxes now sound like shit (as do others same about NI DJ interfaces). And what's this Serato DJ thing about? Not scratch anymore. I can;t keep up. Enlighten this Luddite of a DJ.

I went w/traktor 1 several years ago, because at the time traktor supported flac, and serato didn't, and the ni audiodj8 had a better rep than the 1st serato box. I'm slightly less of a "luddite" than you, but i've been pretty happy w/traktor. I just use it w/my techs and pmc55. I just walk over to the computer and change songs, then walk back to the set up, and just dj like i normally would. I never bothered to get a 2nd screen, so i'm unable to see the screen while i'm at the mixer. not that i need to, since i use my techs and mixer to beatmatch, set levels and mix. but i'm still pretty clueless on a lot of the features it has to offer. I know the records have locked grooves and you can use the inner groove to scroll/select songs in your library n stuff like that.

you're supposed to be able to play vinyl, and play music from your library. traktor scratch 1 used to act funky when i used to do that, but i hardly ever do since the difference in sound is glaring. it really bothers me. i also have a lot of vinyl that's a little too beat up from playing them at desert parties so they don't sound so hot next to cd rips. I haven't really tried doing that w/traktor scratch 2.

if you rip vinyl, use the ni traktor audio pre-amp, not the pmc-55 pre-amp. it's great listening to music on a system w/the pmc-55 but it sucks for getting high quality vinyl rips.

I never used serato. the gc's in hollywood and sherman oaks weren't helpful in making a desicion at all, so i had do a leap of faith when choosing/buying. but i'm happy w/traktor the experience is pretty much there/spot on. it's a little disorienting tho, since i can't see the screen, i find myself needle dropping a lot more to find a certain part in a song, since i don't have the visual feedback that actual vinyl gives you, like where songs start/end, break downs, etc. sometimes i find myself taking the needle off the wrong record on accident, but aside from that... i don't feel any lag/latency when dj'ing. i have A LOT fun with it.

quote:

Originally posted by clay vinyl sales is going up, why dont be a part of it one last time before you (and our entire generation and the clubbing industry) dies completely? Do you not remember how fucking awesome it is to dj without any digital crap? no screens, no buttons, just pure organic soup of analog noise and awesome 30*30cm2 paper covers that you remember what sounds like without needing to remember the artist name or song title or any of that crap? when music felt like art and djeing was somewhat respectable?

if you made this post before 9/11, i'd agree w/you 110%. that was when melrose had 5/6 record shops w/in walking distance from each other. not to mention the many more that where in other parts of hollywood/la/santa monica/sfv. it's just not as accessible as it use to be. a lot shops went out of business, distributors died out, labels disappeared or went mostly/all digital. not even nyc is the same anymore.

even today i still agree with you. but to me, a huge part of the vinyl experience is going to a store and the experience that comes with it. sorry, but to me there's not much of a difference in the online shopping experience between say downtown304 and traxsource for a los angeleno like me. it's pretty depressing.

quote:

Originally posted by Juan Paulino Traktor. I had both. With the new serato box you can change between 48 KhZ and 96. With traktor you have more options. Traktor uses cirrus logic converters and I don't know which serato has. It all comes down to preference. Try reading the manual on both. Honestly, I like traktor more.

I'm not too worried about sample rate in this instance. All the digital tracks I buy are wav @ 16b/44.1 so aside from summing these tracks, I don't care too much about sample rate. Both serato and traktor hardware DAC's are pretty average so it's no big difference either way.

I'm leaning towards serato as I really don't need all that junk on screen that traktor has and I like the fact I can hack serato to work with any USB soundcard.

quote:

Originally posted by SR126 I went w/traktor 1 several years ago, because at the time traktor supported flac, and serato didn't, and the ni audiodj8 had a better rep than the 1st serato box. I'm slightly less of a "luddite" than you, but i've been pretty happy w/traktor. I just use it w/my techs and pmc55. I just walk over to the computer and change songs, then walk back to the set up, and just dj like i normally would. I never bothered to get a 2nd screen, so i'm unable to see the screen while i'm at the mixer. not that i need to, since i use my techs and mixer to beatmatch, set levels and mix. but i'm still pretty clueless on a lot of the features it has to offer. I know the records have locked grooves and you can use the inner groove to scroll/select songs in your library n stuff like that.

Hey Man! Long time!! Good to hear from you - I had not idea that you also had a PMC-55! I thought you had a PMC37pro? I fucking love my PMC55 and this is really useful info - you use it exactly the way I'm thinking to. I love the tactile relationship I have with my MK5g's and PCM55 so I'm really just looking for a way to load up a song without staring at a screen.

quote:

Originally posted by SR126 you're supposed to be able to play vinyl, and play music from your library. traktor scratch 1 used to act funky when i used to do that, but i hardly ever do since the difference in sound is glaring. it really bothers me. i also have a lot of vinyl that's a little too beat up from playing them at desert parties so they don't sound so hot next to cd rips. I haven't really tried doing that w/traktor scratch 2.

Serato is rock solid on that front as the box allows a passive patch through (so you're taking a dub split at the input point directly in to the mixer on a phono channel and you can then just switch that channel between the two). You're right though, you really have to dial in the levels and EQ right otherwise the sonic difference is just too much. It is workable though.

I may just buy a really small USB monitor screen (like a 6 or 7") and just use that as a cue reference. I'm not opposed to traktor, it just does so many things I'm not interested in and because of those extra functions, the workspace is more cluttered than serato.

quote:

Originally posted by SR126 if you made this post before 9/11, i'd agree w/you 110%. that was when melrose had 5/6 record shops w/in walking distance from each other. not to mention the many more that where in other parts of hollywood/la/santa monica/sfv. it's just not as accessible as it use to be. a lot shops went out of business, distributors died out, labels disappeared or went mostly/all digital. not even nyc is the same anymore.

Fuck this is getting weird now, I live walking distance to those stores on Melrose like Street Sounds (which i think is the only one left now?). There used to be record stores all over LA - years ago there was even this great little one off Main street in Santa Monica that had hundreds of imports any given week.

quote:

Originally posted by SR126 even today i still agree with you. but to me, a huge part of the vinyl experience is going to a store and the experience that comes with it. sorry, but to me there's not much of a difference in the online shopping experience between say downtown304 and traxsource for a los angeleno like me. it's pretty depressing.

I gave up on that experience in about 2003 when all the London stores started closing. At one point I'd be exausted and just limit the record shop buying to just 8 or 9 stores - I just couldn't take more than that in a day of quick shuffle listens to something like 400+ tracks.

I have no idea where to buy decent dance music vinyl in LA apart from Street Sounds, but they seemed more like just house when I was in there a while back - not sure if they do prog etc?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I'm not too worried about sample rate in this instance. All the digital tracks I buy are wav @ 16b/44.1 so aside from summing these tracks, I don't care too much about sample rate. Both serato and traktor hardware DAC's are pretty average so it's no big difference either way. I'm leaning towards serato as I really don't need all that junk on screen that traktor has and I like the fact I can hack serato to work with any USB soundcard.

Yeah thats right, Serato's GUI is pretty straight forward. FYI serato is way more expensive, the new SL4 cost more than audio dj6 or 10.

Good luck man...

hey rann, yeah, been a long time. glad to see you're doing well. i have both, the pmc55 and the 37. i'm surprised you remember that. we have the same set up, 2xm5g and the 55. :)

regarding the gui's traktors is customisable. mine is just master tempo/clock and recorder on the top. then the actual decks (decks A/B) w/just song info (artist, title, label, etc) and the bottom half is explorer/library. all the junk like pitch control sliders, faders/eq/mixer, hot cue's, sample decks, and decks C/D is hidden. so i'm just looking at what i want/need to see.

w/traktor 1 if i played some vinyl, and then throw the time code vinyl back on, sometimes traktor wouldn't go back into absolute mode. absolute mode is what allows you to needle drop and you need that mode to be able to cue up and beat match your tracks. traktor would go or stay in relative mode. in that mode doesn't matter where you put the needle, the song just keeps playing. so i was able to beat match, but i wasn't able to play the song from the beginning again w/out reloading the song. -there's a strong possibility i was doing something wrong. because you're supposed to able to do that w/out a hitch. i never read the manual to see what was up, i just did it, and traktor wouldn't so i left it at that. from the way you described the serato works, traktor is the same. i can switch between line/phono to play music from traktor or my vinyl collection and feed it all into the recorder in traktor.

do you have any recommendations for dj needles/carts? i'm being genuine, not sarcastic w/my question. i'm using shure whitelables and the difference is great indeed. i mean the whitelables roll off the highs after 14-15k or so, and it starts to roll off the lows under 40-50hz. no matter what record i play, to me it doesn't sound right next to a cd rip, or wav you can buy from beatport where it's mastered ruler flat from 20hz-20khz and not notice. try playing some old terry lee brown jr tracks (even a cd rip from an old album) next to some newer rob acid tracks that are available on beatport and you'll see what i mean. :( maybe that's not the best example since i'm referencing music from two very different eras in terms of production. regardless, you'll be fighting to hold back tears while asking what happened to the bass... ;p

i have ripped some of my vinyl w/a shure m97xe. it's not bad, it's better than the whitelables but i don't want to have a ripping session before having a jam session. so if you know of a dj needle that will be a better match for the stuff that's coming out of traktor, pls lemme know. :)

i'm pretty clueless now regarding the record shops. things have been slow at work for the past... what seems like forever... so i have little disposable income to work with so im out touch. there's street sounds, ameoba -but they dont' have listing stations, but if you have a handy trax or something similar you can take it and use it to listen to stuff in the used section. i've seen people do it in the past. haven't been there lately. i remember something about vinyl fetish coming/came back, don't know if it's still open. is temple of the boom still there? i used to go there a lot when it was beat non stop. i used to go to grooveriders (that place was like beat non stop but in the valley) all the time in sherman oaks. but the last time i was there (1-2 years back) it seemed like they way out of date w/the vinyl like they haven't bought anything in years. they just lugged what ever they couldn't sell at the old location to the new location. i think dr freeclouds is still around, but that's in oc, and oc is haram (haram = forbiden/sin in arabic).

Lol, sorry, my brain is a bit weird like that - I probably remember about 90% of what people post on here, especially their setups. Someone actually thought I was stalking them last time I mentioned something about their studio.

Thanks for the info on traktor GUI being customizable, that may make a difference as the only real reason I don't like tracktor is the GUI. I also like the fact you can record the mix directly within traktor which is something Serato can't do.

I've used serato and traktor a little bit (as well as testing all the other DVS programs just for shits and giggles, like mixxx, virtual DJ, mixvibes etc) so know about the Abs, Rel and Cons modes but thanks for the heads up that Traktor is a bit flakey.

regarding the needles, my go to has always been the Ortofon Nightclub E (eliptical). They're a bit pricey but I've always found them to have the best frequency response and they track really nicely. I've never been a fan of the Shure white labels; they track really damn well, but I didn't like how they sounded and as I'm not a scratch monkey/turntablist they never won me over - I just want needles that track well but have the best sonic reproduction and The E's always did it for me.

I do know what you mean about differences though between digital tracks and vinyl. The first problem is that vinyl is often mastered completely differently (and this has to do with the RIAA phono preamp curve) and secondly the levels won't even be slightly close when swithcing between channels.

Tbh, on the PMC55 I'll use a completely different channel for the DVS and real vinyl feeds (so DVS ch1 will be on fader 1 and direct TT vinyl will be on fader etc - same for the other deck). That means I can have completely different gain and eq if I need to switch - it makes it a lot more fluid switching between the two mediums as you don't have to worry about re-gaining, and eq'ing when you plip the switch to use the same channel).

Secondly, needles do play a big part - I just always bought the best quality ones I could as that made the sonic differences far less. If anything when you have really good needles, with the turntable set up properly and you gain and EQ just right, the problem is that the digital tracks will just sound so dull, especially the bass and lower mid (but then that's a quality problem to have).

Finally, clean those records. I was playing some old tracks the other night and I cleaned them with a cloth and ammmonia free windex and got some good crud off. But then one track I know I know inside out just din;t quite sound right.

I got some contact cleaner spray (not good idea for regular use) and gave it another going over, and the amount of dirt I got off the record was quite staggering (like I've never cleaned it before).

Apparently the best way to clean them is a solution of 25 distilled alcohol, 75 distilled water and a tiny drop of dishwasher liquid, then use a soft brush and clean out the grooves.

Weird shit like even scented candles and air freshener leave residue on hard surfaces, then you get good old dirt and oils from your hands creeping in then there's just plain house dust etc.

If you really want to get pro, some places will hire you the expensive record cleaning machines and apparently they are amazing as getting your records in "as new" condition. Nothing is going to help worn or damaged vinyl though.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and recommend you at least take a look at Numark VirtualVinyl. I have no idea what the interface sounds like, and the CUE software is amongst the less beautiful, but it's skinnable, and more importantly you can use vst effects. oh and when yur drunk, u can also VJ with it!

Juan Paulino blew a guy for Traktor (control cds were not included) It was crazy....

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario I'm gonna go out on a limb and recommend you at least take a look at Numark VirtualVinyl. I have no idea what the interface sounds like, and the CUE software is amongst the less beautiful, but it's skinnable, and more importantly you can use vst effects. oh and when yur drunk, u can also VJ with it!

They say their product has zero latency.

quote:

Originally posted by Juan Paulino They say their product has zero latency.

That's physically impossible. Usb by itself has a 1.5ms rountrip time for data, so even if they had somehow cracked the zero latency processing using quantum processors which don't yet exist, then they'd still have to account for serial bus travel times then 1.5ms conversion of timecode audio to digital signal + 0.66ms sample input buffer (at a theoretcial buffer of only 32 samples - good luck) + 0.66ms sample output buffer (same) + 1.5ms conversion of digital audio to analogue +1ms USB bus buffer + 4ms speaker distance (4 feet from speakers) = 10.3ms total latency.

I have no idea how Numark can claim override the laws of physics.

Oh and Freak already solved the question in the other thread (king of DJ mixing software?).

Traktor is apparently the industry standard.

And seeing as I figured out to Hack Traktor to work with any Audio interface I want, it looks like I'll be going that route anyway

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN That's physically impossible. Usb by itself has a 1.5ms rountrip time for data, so even if they had somehow cracked the zero latency processing using quantum processors which don't yet exist, then they'd still have to account for serial bus travel times then 1.5ms conversion of timecode audio to digital signal + 0.66ms sample input buffer (at a theoretcial buffer of only 32 samples - good luck) + 0.66ms sample output buffer (same) + 1.5ms conversion of digital audio to analogue +1ms USB bus buffer + 4ms speaker distance (4 feet from speakers) = 10.3ms total latency. I have no idea how Numark can claim override the laws of physics.

Thats why i didn't buy it.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN And seeing as I figured out to Hack Traktor to work with any Audio interface I want, it looks like I'll be going that route anyway

How?
On pc or mac?

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario How? On pc or mac?

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...55&forumid=8&s=

quote:

Originally posted by Juan Paulino http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...55&forumid=8&s=

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario thanks

I'm going to add the hack (not mentioned) to that thread that allows you to use firewire devices.....

@sr126

Sorry to bump this, but I wanted to ask you a couple of questions and you're the only other seasoned PMC 55 owner I know....

How do you wire for DVS? Do you go from the decks straight to the AudioDJ interface or do you use the direct PGM outs for DVS?

What's your take on the EQ's and did you change any of the dip switches (remove the front panel etc).

What attenuation do you have it set to?

And finally what's your experience with balancing the master out/booth out/ etc against the cue system for headphones?

What about the rotary kit? I've often thought about it but I don't use the Xfader at all and do all my cuts with the verticals - can you still do quick cuts with the rotary kit? How robust is the rotary kit?

I'm still using the multi core cables that came w/traktor1. I had to pull my upgrade package out of the closet so i can answer you. The package didn't come w/extra multi core cables... it came w/six crappy pairs of rca cables.

according to the manual, you're supposed to hook up your TT to the traktor audio card's input on channel A (for example) and the output of channel A will go to line input on your mixer. ground your TT to your mixer of course. (I have mine set up to use channels 1 (line 1) & 4 (line 7) on the pmc.

so you'll be using the traktor audio card as your phono preamp. no need to switch sources on your mixer to play your vinyl.

my take on eq... it's the same. if you set up the tightes latency possible you won't notice anything. it's just like dj'ing w/cd players or TT's. i've fiddled w/the different eq's traktor has w/an x1. the eq's sound fine. nothing wrong w/them they all sound different, but i guess it's something you have to get used to doing w/a controller. i never got into it, since it felt weird using the controller, and not the mixer. aside from how you go about it, it's a preference thing sonically.

i didn't have to modify mixer or anything like that if that's what you mean by removing the panel.

the pmc has more than enough gain to deal w/what ever source you're using. if you set your master to 2:00 w/traktor my trim/gain is usually around 10:00-11:00 sometimes closer to 12:00 if something is that quite, rarely go to 9:00. w/vinyl you will crank the gain more, but if you set your trim to peak @0db, fader/knob all the up/open w/the master @ 2:00 the meter on your channel and master will a pretty close match. so 0db on the channel meter will be 0db on the master meter.

regarding the balance, booth/main etc:
I using the unbalanced outs (i made my own 1/4 ts to RCA cables) of the mixer to the traktor audio main input. since i'm using the unbalanced out, the setting of the pmc55 limiter has no effect.
right now the mixer is only connect to the traktor audio card. the main out of the traktor card is going to my receiver. I could have connected my mixer to the receiver, but i play so much audio off the computer that it was just easier to hook up the receiver to the card and not have to bother switching sources on the receiver.

the cue system... you just plug your headphones in to the mixer, and go about it the same way we always did it. if i need to adjust anything i just turn my receiver up or down. you may want to connect your reciever/amp or monitors to the master 2, or booth outs and control from the mixer that's fine too. i don't think i have ever used the boot monitoring section of the mixer now that i think about it... at the parties we used to throw, we hooked up powered monitors for the dj to the master 2, and controlled the volume from there.

I love the rotary kit, but i feel it's lacking robustness. As long as you don't treat it like derrick carter would treat it, you should be fine. I've been using my kit for i don't know how many years now... maybe 5 or more, and it still works fine. it's not scratch or sketchy. you've probably heard it many times that a rotary can't be beat for smooth blends, but for the cuts the opposite is true. it's too slow (and probably to delicate if you're the heavy handed type) to turn a knob that much and that fast. I have to use the transform buttons and the cross fader to make that happen.

Don't fret. someone w/your kind of knowledge and experience shouldn't have much trouble getting everything up and running.

If i misunderstood a question, and you need me to clear something up, lemme know.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN @sr126 Sorry to bump this, but I wanted to ask you a couple of questions and you're the only other seasoned PMC 55 owner I know.... How do you wire for DVS? Do you go from the decks straight to the AudioDJ interface or do you use the direct PGM outs for DVS? What's your take on the EQ's and did you change any of the dip switches (remove the front panel etc). What attenuation do you have it set to? And finally what's your experience with balancing the master out/booth out/ etc against the cue system for headphones? What about the rotary kit? I've often thought about it but I don't use the Xfader at all and do all my cuts with the verticals - can you still do quick cuts with the rotary kit? How robust is the rotary kit?

quote:

Originally posted by sr126 I'm still using the multi core cables that came w/traktor1. I had to pull my upgrade package out of the closet so i can answer you. The package didn't come w/extra multi core cables... it came w/six crappy pairs of rca cables. according to the manual, you're supposed to hook up your TT to the traktor audio card's input on channel A (for example) and the output of channel A will go to line input on your mixer. ground your TT to your mixer of course. (I have mine set up to use channels 1 (line 1) & 4 (line 7) on the pmc. so you'll be using the traktor audio card as your phono preamp. no need to switch sources on your mixer to play your vinyl. my take on eq... it's the same. if you set up the tightes latency possible you won't notice anything. it's just like dj'ing w/cd players or TT's. i've fiddled w/the different eq's traktor has w/an x1. the eq's sound fine. nothing wrong w/them they all sound different, but i guess it's something you have to get used to doing w/a controller. i never got into it, since it felt weird using the controller, and not the mixer. aside from how you go about it, it's a preference thing sonically. i didn't have to modify mixer or anything like that if that's what you mean by removing the panel. the pmc has more than enough gain to deal w/what ever source you're using. if you set your master to 2:00 w/traktor my trim/gain is usually around 10:00-11:00 sometimes closer to 12:00 if something is that quite, rarely go to 9:00. w/vinyl you will crank the gain more, but if you set your trim to peak @0db, fader/knob all the up/open w/the master @ 2:00 the meter on your channel and master will a pretty close match. so 0db on the channel meter will be 0db on the master meter. regarding the balance, booth/main etc: I using the unbalanced outs (i made my own 1/4 ts to RCA cables) of the mixer to the traktor audio main input. since i'm using the unbalanced out, the setting of the pmc55 limiter has no effect. right now the mixer is only connect to the traktor audio card. the main out of the traktor card is going to my receiver. I could have connected my mixer to the receiver, but i play so much audio off the computer that it was just easier to hook up the receiver to the card and not have to bother switching sources on the receiver. the cue system... you just plug your headphones in to the mixer, and go about it the same way we always did it. if i need to adjust anything i just turn my receiver up or down. you may want to connect your reciever/amp or monitors to the master 2, or booth outs and control from the mixer that's fine too. i don't think i have ever used the boot monitoring section of the mixer now that i think about it... at the parties we used to throw, we hooked up powered monitors for the dj to the master 2, and controlled the volume from there. I love the rotary kit, but i feel it's lacking robustness. As long as you don't treat it like derrick carter would treat it, you should be fine. I've been using my kit for i don't know how many years now... maybe 5 or more, and it still works fine. it's not scratch or sketchy. you've probably heard it many times that a rotary can't be beat for smooth blends, but for the cuts the opposite is true. it's too slow (and probably to delicate if you're the heavy handed type) to turn a knob that much and that fast. I have to use the transform buttons and the cross fader to make that happen. Don't fret. someone w/your kind of knowledge and experience shouldn't have much trouble getting everything up and running. If i misunderstood a question, and you need me to clear something up, lemme know.

Thanks man for taking the time to respond in such depth.

There's a little bit of misunderstanding but from you answers I can decipher what my answers are lol.

I'm planning to use Traktor slightly differently; I posted how to hack it to use with any soundcard so I'm thinking of getting a 8in/8out card and then connecting it up.

I wanted to check if Traktor is the same way as serato, where you connect the decks straight to the card, then the card to the mixer channels as a line inputs. The difference seems to be that Traktor uses y-split cables (so 1 input to 2 identical outputs, one to phono and one to line and one to phono and switch it on the mixer). I also see that AudioDJ6 or 8 have a "thru" switch but you'd be a lot quieter if you're plugged in to a line input (which you'd have to be) and I don't want the internal noise of the gain pre.

With Serato, the box itself has two sets of outputs for each input, one the return from the computer and the other is the Thru, again, one connected to line (the return from computer) and the other for vinyl connected to phono in.

With the setup I'm attempting, I can use any sound card but the bit I need to know is:

Does traktor have a software preamp built in, or does it rely on a hardware preamp in the AudioDJ6 or 8? And if so, how do you set this/change it within traktor?

There is still a work around if not but it would solve quite a routing clusterfuck if so.

Oh, and I didn;t mean modding the PMC55 - there are dip switches next to the eq's (visibile only when you remove the front panel that allow you to alter the EQ curves). I was checking if you'd sued them.

Also regarding the attenuation, I was talking about the master global attenuation switch on the rear of the unit that can be set to -20, -10 and 0.

I didn't read everything as it was too much, so if I repeat anything, I'm sorry.

I own both, Traktor Scratch Pro & Serato's Scratch Live.

To start off, Serato's Scratch LIVE has been discontinued. It was old architecture and Serato needed to evolve and move forward. Scratch Live has been replaced with Serato DJ, which comes in several different flavors and it's no longer free ($199). Well, kinda. There's Serato DJ Intro and Serato DJ. DJ Intro is very limited in the features dept and it's the free version that comes with cheap controllers. You can usually upgrade to Serato DJ for a fee.

Serato DJ supports various plugins and add on packs plus Serato Video. For example, it supports the new Izotope effects. The new Rane & Pioneer mixers & controllers will only support Serato DJ. Serato's Scratch Live will not work with them. Serato is also found in most mainstream clubs which is why I use it most. The beauty behind Serato is that it's plug and play. Plus, when switching DJ's it's a breeze.

The original Serato SL1 Box has been discontinued and yes, it sounds like crap. It's been replaced with a new slim SL2.

Traktor on the other hand, sounds a lot better and it has better effects, but the workflow is kinda crappy compared to Serato's simplistic approach. But I do appreciate the ability to customize it. I own an Audio 8, so I use those weird cables that came with it. It's kinda a pain.

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