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-- Help me find a new interface

Help me find a new interface

1. USB
   
2. Bus powered
   
3. Headphone out
   
4. TRS or XLR out
   
5. Class compliant
   
6. One preamp good enough for demo purposes (BETA 57A specifically)
   
7. At least 96khz
   

http://echoaudio.com/products/echo-2

This looks pretty fucking sexual. No drivers, no software control panel, no bullshit. 100% controllable by hardware. Looks like I might be buying my second Echo interface!

I think that about does it; that little box looks like quite the powerhouse. I'd be a little nervours of not having any spare I/O but if you know your requirements then that thing seems to be the ticket.

My Audiofire4 is still going strong so I can't imagine this not be being great.

Let us know what you think when you get it!

Might want to compare it to similar portable interfaces like the MOTU Track 16, Focusrite Forte, and Agogee One/Duet (Mac only, can't recall which OS you're one), but the Echo looks like a winner.

Actually, I'd love an apogee quartet but I can't justify $1500 for 4 ins/4 outs. For that money I should be buying better monitors.

It still blows my mind how many interface companies don't make their hardware class compliant. I have never seen a single feature in any unit that required a proprietary driver.

When I had M-Audio and Presonus interfaces, I was constantly chasing driver updates. I had to wait a year or more to have support for the latest OS, and even then they would only release it as a beta driver.

Looking at the Presonus forums, it looks like they haven't learned shit; all the new Audiobox VSL units officially only support Snow Leopard! They haven't had a non-beta driver for Mountain Lion, ever. Needless to say, if you went out and bought a new Mavericks computer, you would be completely fucked. If by some miracle they actually released a stable driver, the product would be discontinued soon after and you'd be left with an expensive brick that you can't even use because they don't support new operating systems. It's ridiculous!

Anyway, rant over.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN My Audiofire4 is still going strong so I can't imagine this not be being great.

Same. I'm only buying a new one because I'll be buying a new MacBook soon and I don't want to have to carry around a thunderbolt firewire converter or deal with chipset issues, now that they've removed the port.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Let us know what you think when you get it!

Will do.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Might want to compare it to similar portable interfaces like the MOTU Track 16, Focusrite Forte, and Agogee One/Duet (Mac only, can't recall which OS you're one), but the Echo looks like a winner.

Cheers for the suggestions!

The MOTU is total overkill for me, I think.

The Focusrite is really nice. I completely missed this one in my searches. I think the Echo still wins out though, as you can use phantom power via bus power if you have USB 3.0 and don't need an extra power pack. Unlike the other Focusrite interfaces, it also can't be switched into class compliant mode. Apparently the driver on the PC is what actually controls the screen, not the microcontrollers in the box. That's a pretty nasty shortcut if you ask me!

Apogee One only has one output, so you can't use monitors and headphones at the same time from my understanding. The output is all unbalanced too, which is a total deal breaker IMO.

If I find a reason not to buy the Echo, I'll get an Apogee Duet 2. They're not class compliant, but I figure that if they have driver issues they will get massacred by their user base, so they're a fairly safe choice. They still support the original Duet on Mavericks, so they're obviously doing a pretty good job with driver updates!

Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6? It's on sale and meets all your specs, I think.

The new prism TITAN interface looks amusing, not saying that I'd buy one but its got thunderbolt expansion not that the OP would need it, i'm saying for myself.

quote:

Originally posted by clay im interested in knowing how the echo 2 works too as I dont use/have firewire on my copmuter anymore so my AF4 is not in use anymore, but still thats the best device i ever had. hopefully echo 2 will be just as good (hopefully same dacs) so maybe I can replace my lofi steinberg device.

The SNR on ins/outs is pretty high just like the AF4 (112-115db), so I reckon they're working with the same hardware. As a small company, that obviously makes a lot of sense; they wouldn't have to go investing research into new stuff!

quote:

Originally posted by eyepad Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6? It's on sale and meets all your specs, I think.

Thanks for the suggestion dude! It does indeed meet all my requirements. However, the ADC/DAC doesn't seem so great - sub 100db SNR on both. I know that's more than adequate and there's more to it than that, but I've always found the SNR figures to be indicative of ADC/DAC quality in general.

like most specs , snr is useless which is generally why they use them. It tells you nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney like most specs , snr is useless which is generally why they use them. It tells you nothing.

Yes, but I think you'll find good DAC/ADC chips tend to have higher SNRs relative to other products around the time of their release. Of course, a Lavry of any period will be superior to some M-Audio shit regardless of SNR, but when they came out they would have been above the average product. For a new DAC/ADC to have sub 100db SNR, it has got to be pretty crap in my opinion.

Same goes for sample rates. The technology that allows a DAC/ADC to run at 192khz often facilitates better performance at the rates we actually use. I wouldn't buy a 48khz interface unless it was from Apogee or some other higher end brand.

Looks like L4C is back for another ass whooping.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm It still blows my mind how many interface companies don't make their hardware class compliant. I have never seen a single feature in any unit that required a proprietary driver. When I had M-Audio and Presonus interfaces, I was constantly chasing driver updates. I had to wait a year or more to have support for the latest OS, and even then they would only release it as a beta driver. Looking at the Presonus forums, it looks like they haven't learned shit; all the new Audiobox VSL units officially only support Snow Leopard! They haven't had a non-beta driver for Mountain Lion, ever. Needless to say, if you went out and bought a new Mavericks computer, you would be completely fucked. If by some miracle they actually released a stable driver, the product would be discontinued soon after and you'd be left with an expensive brick that you can't even use because they don't support new operating systems. It's ridiculous! Anyway, rant over.

It's s shame - MidiMan(M-audio) started out great but over time (especially once they got bought out) they just concentrated on making every more budget toys and their driver support went south. I remember working with the guys (all two of them) who were their tech support department for the entire UK. When the drivers started getting shitty they got inundated and just had to point everyone to the M-audio website and tell them to download the previous stable version.

About class compliance, it's true and it's not; Like windows itself, the USB audio class driver has to be all things to all devices and it's therefore not particularly efficient and that's why class compliant devices are nearly always limited in terms of I/O (usually 4/4 at most).

Another thing that sucks about class compliance is that windows (yes, even windows 8) is only USB 1.0 class compliant so the bandwidth is pathetic, then combine that with a pretty inefficient driver in the first place and I see why only simple devices are class compliant.

Mac OS is at least USB audio 2.0 class compliant and therefore has more bandwidth but still the same problem remains - it's a pretty bog standard driver and the hardware is trying to make the most of it (rather than good interfaces which have a synergy of well written drivers to perfectly compliment the hardware they have selected for that exact purpose).

it would be great if the USB 3.0 audio class driver was a lot better planned but so far, no one has any idea as to what it will be like.

If you want a great explanation of class compliance vs proprietary drivers, RME have made a great post on the support page of the UCX and somehow have managed to make the UCX do 18 channels in compliance mode although they admit the performance sucks compared to their proper driver.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_support_...echinfo_cc_mode

Well, it looks like I'm not going to buy an Echo interface again.

I sent them an email a few months ago... No reply.

I sent them an email a week ago... No reply.

I sent them an email a few days ago asking what happened to the earlier emails and they told me it was probably because they were on holidays over the Christmas/NYE period, when my first email was obviously way before that.

So, I copied all my questions in my response to that email... No reply.

Customer service++

Focusrite replied within 24h, so I'm probably just going to get the 2i2. I've read great things about the preamps, the AD/DA seems above the average, they're class compliant and I believe all the volume control is analog (not truncating bits in the digital signal).

What did you need to know though from Echo? It's a virtually a plug and play device and a simple one at that.

Don't forget though, Echo just one day delated their forum and took it offline. It seems absolutely bizarre, but they basically killed an entire database of user content and useful answers at the flick of a switch. I will say from a hardware and software point, they deliver but it sounds like they don't want to get in consumer service.

Focusrite are always solid. No the best in the world in terms of DAC, but certainly good.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN What did you need to know though from Echo?

1. What driver we should be using for AudioFires. Their website is a mess. I was previously running 5.7.6 for years and now the latest version they show is 5.7.1, way back from 2011.

2. How firmware updates are applied to the Echo2, given there is no software.

3. Whether volume control on the Echo2 is analog or digital.

4. How you explicitly set a sample rate on the Echo2, given there is no control panel. I find my AudioFire gets mixed up sometimes; my daw will be set to 88,200, but the AudioFire stays on 44,100 until I set it in the control panel.

FAO RANN: Reply to PM already!

Should it be of interest, I have a duet (first version) sitting here unused after I upped to 16ch. PM me - I'm in Melb.

quote:

Originally posted by clay i believe echo is running out of business any day.

I get that feeling too. They used to be the bomb. It seemed like everyone had a Layla/Gina card back in the day, then the AudioFires came out and gave us the same ADC/DAC as a $2,000 RME for $200-$500! It's a shame!

What about an RME interface? too expensive?

1, The latest one which is 5.7.1. Make sure you you also do the latest firmware update at the same time otherwise it will be a bit flakey. After that, rock solid.

2, No idea, but I assume it's done via the downloadable driver. If it's like any of their other products, it will actually be handled by the downloadable driver. Otherwise there may be some interface panel?

3, I believe the volume control is a digitally controlled potentiometer as the manual states that 24bit resolution is maintained regardless of gain level throughout the signal chain.

4, In the manual is shows for PC that the extra driver handles that and has a little interface. For mac, because OSX supports the USB 2.0 class audio driver, so you just deal with it in the OSX preferences panel. Actually really easy.

Sorry about the PM - I don't seem to get notifications from TA when I have one. I'll reply shortly.....

I think Echo have streamlined their business model to not include live tech support or customer service - they just put out products and release drivers and manuals every so often. Saves a lot of money as actually paying enough people to handle support form consumers is damn expensive in the grand scheme of things especially when margins are so utterly shit in the pro audio industry.

Thanks dude!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN 1, The latest one which is 5.7.1.

It's not though... I'm running version 5.7.6, which was previously on their site.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN 2, No idea, but I assume it's done via the downloadable driver.

There isn't one for Mac though. That's what I'm getting at. Anyway, not a big deal I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Sorry about the PM - I don't seem to get notifications from TA when I have one. I'll reply shortly.....

No worries! Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I think Echo have streamlined their business model to not include live tech support or customer service - they just put out products and release drivers and manuals every so often.

Lame move IMO!

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm It's not though... I'm running version 5.7.6, which was previously on their site.

That's fucking weird. I just got that version info from their site - I'll check which one mine has at home when i get back tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm There isn't one for Mac though. That's what I'm getting at. Anyway, not a big deal I guess.

I doubt it needs a firmware update. If they built it for USB 2.0 class compliance, then that's a well established protocol. I don't really see what they'd need an update for?





Lame move IMO! [/QUOTE]

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