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Posted by Dmatrox on Oct-05-2002 00:22:

Math? Infinity and Zero

Zero times a # is: 0

Infinity times a # is: Infinity

So whats Zero times infinity?
1. Zero
2. Infinity
3. Somewhere in between? or ??

Undetermined limits occurs for Zero times infinity

Zero x Infinity = 0 * (1/Inf) = 0/0
Zero x Infinity = (1/inf) * Inf = Inf/Inf
Zero x Infinity = (inf - inf)*Inf = 0
Inf-Inf = Inf(1-1) = Inf(0)

So if:
Zero times a # is: 0
and
Infinity times a # is: Infinity

What is Infinity times Zero? Infinitly Small? Infinity Large or Inbetween?

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 00:27:

it's undefineable (do you say that?)

almost everything that has to do with infinity is undefinable

at least when you try to use it in an equation

Posted by Dmatrox on Oct-05-2002 00:38:

the lowest extremity and highest extremity collide

kinda scary

Posted by biznology on Oct-05-2002 00:53:

is it like when you light a fart?

Posted by astroboy on Oct-05-2002 00:53:

I'm pretty sure it's zero... but don't quoteme on that.

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 01:07:

hmmm I'm pretty shure it's undefineable....we have just read about that in school but I might be wrong....anyone that really know?

Posted by jinxed84 on Oct-05-2002 01:10:

id have to say infinity x zero = 0, but thats just imo

bah i hate infinity

Posted by Dmatrox on Oct-05-2002 01:13:

Heres an easier one.

So

If 0/1=0
and 0/50=0

What is 0/0? Is it 1 or is it 0 or undefined

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 01:16:

well look....infinity is infinite.....wich means that you can't really decide what it is

if you multiplikate (spelling?) something with 0 it becomes 0 - that's a fact

BUT another mathematical fact is that infinity is undefineable and when you use infinity in any sort of mathematic equation that equation will be undefineable since infinity is undefineable

at least that's how i think of it

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 01:18:

quote:
Originally posted by Dmatrox
What is 0/0? Is it 1 or is it 0 or undefined

it's undefined, every division with 0 in the lower part (the second 0, don't know what it's called in english mathematic language) is undefined

and that I'm 100% shure of since I had it on a mathlesson about 4 days ago

Posted by Dmatrox on Oct-05-2002 01:22:

Undefined

Can anyone else think of pondering math?

Posted by Nadi on Oct-05-2002 01:26:

I'm pretty sure its 0. Anything times 0 = 0. Infinity x any real number = infinity. And 0 isn't a real number.

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 01:32:

well 0 equals nothing right?

then we are actually tlaking about infinity times nothing

and that leaves us back to scratch

[edit]

or if we want to screw it up a bit more we can call infinity something since we really don't know what it is right?

then we have something times nothing....and THEN we are back to scratch

Posted by Dmatrox on Oct-05-2002 01:38:

We cant call infinity a number though, its infinitly large

Posted by Dmatrox on Oct-05-2002 01:40:

Heres another question, does light (photons) have momentum? It has mass, so it has to have momentum right? Agreed? or are there any thoughts on this?

Posted by astroboy on Oct-05-2002 01:43:

Yeah I think Nadi is right, infinity x a real numer = infinity. But as 0 is not a real number infinity x 0 = 0. I guess that makes sense, if I give you zero infinities, how much have you got? Or if I give you an infinite number of nothings what have you got? 0

Infinity is not always undefinable, but then you have to go into weird-ass mathematics and talk about different "orders" of infinity and stuff.

A maths teacher once told me that 3 x infinity is not equal to 4 x infinity, but that it was too complicated for him to explain why so I should just trust him. Can anyone explain?

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 01:52:

ok youve proven that I'm wrong about it being undefineable astro...i give up

hmmm, infinity is tricky....indeed

Posted by astroboy on Oct-05-2002 01:53:

quote:
Originally posted by Dmatrox
Heres another question, does light (photons) have momentum? It has mass, so it has to have momentum right? Agreed? or are there any thoughts on this?

Yeah I'm pretty sure it does, they can make spacecraft that use "solar sails" (a pig reflective piece of foil to catch the light) for propulsion.

Posted by ali92 on Oct-05-2002 01:55:

This is weird... I would think that Infinity * 0 is 0 because anything multipled by 0 is 0. 0 divided by 0 would be undefined because when you divide ANY NUMBER (for example: 8 / 0, what do you get? UNDEFINED.) by 0, it is undefined. I see where some people are coming from when they think that 0 / 0 = 1: A number divided by itself = 1. NOT HERE. Now, as far as negative/positive Infinity is concerned, Negative Infinity^2 would be Infinity because 2 negatives equals a positive and Infinity is the highest value that you can have (Googolplex is the 2nd highest, from what I've heard).

From what someone else said about nothing being multipled by something, think about this: Infinity is EVERYTHING. Zero is NOTHING. What's in the middle? This is easy: HALF OF EVERYTHING. You wouldn't get to the middle by multiplying Zero by Infinity. You would get to it by doing this: Infinity / 2 = X
What is X? HALFWAY BETWEEN EVERYTHING AND NOTHING because that can also be expressed as a fraction: one half of Infinity. Am I making any sense???

Posted by astroboy on Oct-05-2002 01:55:

quote:
Originally posted by Vizay
ok youve proven that I'm wrong about it being undefineable astro...i give up

and no I can't explain why it is like that because all i see is a bunch of weird letters and stuff....I don't think my european OS knows those letters

I was trying to get the infinity symbol (an "8" sideways) from Windows Character Map, but the forum wouldn't let me do it - so the weird symbols that came up weren't intentional.

Posted by astroboy on Oct-05-2002 01:58:

quote:
Originally posted by ali92
From what someone else said about nothing being multipled by something, think about this: Infinity is EVERYTHING. Zero is NOTHING. What's in the middle? This is easy: HALF OF EVERYTHING. You wouldn't get to the middle by multiplying Zero by Infinity. You would get to it by doing this: Infinity / 2 = X
What is X? HALFWAY BETWEEN EVERYTHING AND NOTHING because that can also be expressed as a fraction: one half of Infinity. Am I making any sense???

But infinity/2 = infinity x 1/2 = infinity.

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 01:59:

ahhh okey that explains it astro

and no your'e not making any sense ali (well actually you do but it fealt better to say no since you asked)

Posted by Michael Russo on Oct-05-2002 02:05:

quote:
Originally posted by Vizay

it's undefined, every division with 0 in the lower part (the second 0, don't know what it's called in english mathematic language) is undefined

and that I'm 100% shure of since I had it on a mathlesson about 4 days ago

Lol... you really sure about that?

It's indeterminate, "undefined" implies a slightly different meaning.

Posted by ali92 on Oct-05-2002 02:10:

quote:
Originally posted by Vizay
ahhh okey that explains it astro

and no your'e not making any sense ali (well actually you do but it fealt better to say no since you asked)

OK... I won't continue because I can't! I haven't had Calculus yet! Who in here's had it already?

Posted by Vizay on Oct-05-2002 02:12:

well in sweden we say "odefinerat" and that word in english is undefined (used a lexicon to verify this)

I checked with the lexicon (swedish -> english, English -> swedish) and i got the same word with undefined and indeterminate so no, I really don't see the diference

[edit]

well well I'm leaving for bed now....to tired to go on

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