TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Building a custom rig (advice on my current thoughts)
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Building a custom rig (advice on my current thoughts)

I am considering purchasing a new machine dedicated to solely music production. I would prefer a PC machine because of the ability to buy better hardware for the same outlay as a mac.


I like to make music by looping a section and adding/auditioning some ideas live as the loop is playing. When I say loop a section I don't mean looping solely wav samples I mean I have 15-20 channels of percs, bass, midbass, sweeps, drums etc looping all with FX on each channel (sidechains, compression, waves Rbass plugin etc, VST FX including on master channel taking up CPU).......


THEN I start jamming with the midi keyboard controlling Sylenth adding some notes live as the sounds come to my head. Sorta like im playing along with a band and im riffing. Then when I find something I like I will record the notes and now keep looping with the new midi part from sylenth (full of FX, EQ) and start adding pads and thats where my method is flawed as my CPU freaks the fuck out and the machine just dies. Always when I get to the pads stage (I guess they are CPU intensive).


That is how I like to do it and it is what I enjoy. Doing it any other way just doesn't allow me to hear/imagine the sounds that should be there if that makes sense to anyone. I kinda get int a rhythm and can just hear sounds that are not there yet.


My current hardware / ASIO / External soundcard etc (and it is pretty old to be fair) is limiting this and I then find I spend less time being creative and having fun. So much so I haven't actually touched music in well over a year!


So with that being said I have decided this year to attempt to build a PC that can cope with this style of workflow. I am more than happy to go external soundcard if it can take a load off the machine along with any other tips or suggestions to eek performance out of this thing (overclocking, raid, SSD). Also was using ableton so not sure if things have advanced there and there is some tips to get more performance based on some tweaks.

Based on my limited knowledge:

1. Quad core overclocked CPU
   
2. 16Gb Ram
   
3. win 7 64 bit
   
4. Three SSDs (as fast as possible) in a raid formation (don't care about reliability i want speed so I think thats raid0?)
   
5. USB 3.0 (for external soundcard)
   
6. Externla soundcard (no idea whats the best out there right now but anything that can take heat off the machine i guess is the winner here and can have a midi keyboard plugged in).
   
7. 2 possibly three monitors (so graphics card not sure if onboard can handle three screens?)
   
8. Tweak the absolute bejesus out of the OS to have literally the bare bones running in the background (i mean right down to removing animations for menus and everything)
   
9. Cooling no doubt needed
   
10. PSU
    

Sounds like a bit of overkill to me.

Re: Building a custom rig (advice on my current thoughts)

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth I like to make music by looping a section and adding/auditioning some ideas live as the loop is playing.

quote:

Originally posted by wayfinder Sounds like a bit of overkill to me.

Yeah, for that type of use, those specs seem like WAY overkill. I can't see a need for overclocking, cooling, 16GB RAM, etc. Storage and backup is something that you should always prioritize IMO, but for general loop-based creation, you're better off investing some of that into your soundcard and monitoring setup.

Buy a MacBook Pro. It will do everything you want and have higher resale value.

Sorry guys to clarify when I said

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth I like to make music by looping a section and adding/auditioning some ideas live as the loop is playing.

I think everyone assumes I mean I play loads of wav samples and just add more channels of wav files. That is not what I mean.

When I say loop a section I mean I have 15-20 channels of percs, bass, midbass, sweeps, drums etc looping all with FX on each channel (sidechains, compression, waves Rbass plugin etc, VST FX including on master channel taking up CPU).......

THEN I start jamming with the midi keyboard controlling Sylenth adding some notes live as the sounds come to my head. Sorta like im playing along with a band and im riffing.

Then when I find something I like I will record the notes and now keep looping with the new midi part from sylenth (full of FX, EQ) and start adding pads and thats where my method is flawed as my CPU freaks the fuck out and the machine just dies. Always when I get to the pads stage (I guess they are CPU intensive).

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm Buy a MacBook Pro. It will do everything you want and have higher resale value.

Already have one and doing the above it cannot cope thus the project hehe (8gb Ram, 2.5ghz intel i5)

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth When I say loop a section I mean I have 15-20 channels of percs, bass, midbass, sweeps, drums etc looping all with FX on each channel (sidechains, compression, waves Rbass plugin etc, VST FX including on master channel taking up CPU)....... THEN I start jamming with the midi keyboard controlling Sylenth adding some notes live as the sounds come to my head. Sorta like im playing along with a band and im riffing. Then when I find something I like I will record the notes and now keep looping with the new midi part from sylenth (full of FX, EQ) and start adding pads and thats where my method is flawed as my CPU freaks the fuck out and the machine just dies. Always when I get to the pads stage (I guess they are CPU intensive).

That's pretty much what I figured you meant. I do the same thing with my MacBook Air, my i5 Dell laptop, and my desktop (Q6600, 8 GB RAM). They all handle it easily if I'm using something like Sylenth alongside other similar synths (CPU hogs like Diva, not so much). My typical project has several dozen tracks and I can still lay down parts in real- time, which is how I usually work. I wonder if maybe you've got a bad plugin, maybe a problem with your setup (bad RAM stick perhaps?), and/or just need some better optimization.

forget the over clocking.

RAID 0 SSD will do nothing unless you are streaming huge sample libraries and don't want to use your ram.

most interfaces that are 16 I/O are USB 2 including guys like rme. 3 adds nothing except a little overhead. There is enough bandwidth and speed. Your performance will either slightly go down or stay the same. So make sure you have USB 2.

Rule of thumb.

What you and most people think makes a killer computer is generally for games. Most guys that do specs do them for games. All those nerds that say what is great again, all for games.

Most video cards will handle 3 monitors at 1080p .

The power supply is generally were most people cheap out which is the most important thing in my opinion. NO point having a nice computer if you have a shitty psu. You should make it a priority to get something that isn't shit.

WIndows 7 doesn't really need to be tweaked.

your cpu is going crazy because you are running all the audio on it. get a proper soundcard to do that for you. overclocking etc is waste of time really. with a soundcard taking off the load youll have more than enough cpu power to do whatever..
and i will always go for internal soundcard vs external, at least until the cables hooking it up runs on fiber. thunderbolt maaaybe, but it's still cant beat the zero-latency you can it when connecting the interface directly to the motherboard with fat-ass pci-e pins.
cooling is something u should put money into tho. watercooling is sweet and quiet, but fans are cheap. so yeah. maintaining optimal air flow in a cabinet can also be challenging when having loads of wires going around. at least the cables have shrunk dramatically in size compared to what was standard 5 yrs ago.

other than that, what L4C is pretty spot-on.
get the best psu u can find. u dont want it to conk out on you.
1000 watts easily. I run a 650 or 750 one, and that's barely enough to run my rig if I overclock my GPU (double-fanned bastard).

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth Sorry guys to clarify when I said I think everyone assumes I mean I play loads of wav samples and just add more channels of wav files. That is not what I mean. When I say loop a section I mean I have 15-20 channels of percs, bass, midbass, sweeps, drums etc looping all with FX on each channel (sidechains, compression, waves Rbass plugin etc, VST FX including on master channel taking up CPU)....... THEN I start jamming with the midi keyboard controlling Sylenth adding some notes live as the sounds come to my head. Sorta like im playing along with a band and im riffing. Then when I find something I like I will record the notes and now keep looping with the new midi part from sylenth (full of FX, EQ) and start adding pads and thats where my method is flawed as my CPU freaks the fuck out and the machine just dies. Always when I get to the pads stage (I guess they are CPU intensive). Already have one and doing the above it cannot cope thus the project hehe (8gb Ram, 2.5ghz intel i5)

as ever with these threads......whats your current soundcard???????????

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth Sorry guys to clarify when I said I think everyone assumes I mean I play loads of wav samples and just add more channels of wav files. That is not what I mean. When I say loop a section I mean I have 15-20 channels of percs, bass, midbass, sweeps, drums etc looping all with FX on each channel (sidechains, compression, waves Rbass plugin etc, VST FX including on master channel taking up CPU)....... THEN I start jamming with the midi keyboard controlling Sylenth adding some notes live as the sounds come to my head. Sorta like im playing along with a band and im riffing. Then when I find something I like I will record the notes and now keep looping with the new midi part from sylenth (full of FX, EQ) and start adding pads and thats where my method is flawed as my CPU freaks the fuck out and the machine just dies. Always when I get to the pads stage (I guess they are CPU intensive). Already have one and doing the above it cannot cope thus the project hehe (8gb Ram, 2.5ghz intel i5)

The i5 in that MBP is only a dual core and doesn't work too well with audio. I just sold a Mac Mini with exactly that spec for that reason.

My i5 desktop can handle well over 100 channels of what you're describing though.

You don't need 3 SSD's either.

Just get an i5/i7, 8GB RAM, a 256GB SSD for OS and installs and a couple of gigs of 7200rpm storage and you'll have power to spare.

..and another +1 on L4C's PSU recommendation. Don't skimp there - make sure it's got enough wattage to run all the components in your computer (mobo, graphics card, RAM, HDs/SSDs, etc.) and with plenty extra to spare. Look around - there are some online PSU calculators (I know that newegg.com has one).

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord Just get an i5/i7, 8GB RAM, a 256GB SSD for OS and installs and a couple of gigs of 7200rpm storage and you'll have power to spare.

Yup, and spend the rest on a good sound card.

Yup, a cheap PSU will fail. It's not if, it's when.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I currently have an external soundcard in the form of a TASCAM US 122L which is USB 2.0, and I find it does not take anything off the CPU that I can tell anyway.

Maybe that isn't a good enough soundcard to actually take the load off the computer. When I compare it vs the onbaord soundcard I have there is really no improvement between the two even when using with ASIO on top.

In that regard I have absolutely no clue what external soundcard to go for to replace it. Is there something to look for in an external soundcard that indicates it will take pressure off the CPU?

My monitors are Yamaha HS50M just to complete the picture.

Your sound card has a negligible impact on CPU consumption. It's only when you start to get down to really low latencies and lots of inputs/outputs for recording that you're going to notice any difference, because that's where efficient driver code and the kind of bus (USB, FW, PCI/E) comes into play. If you're just playing audio back at 256-512 samples, you'll see bugger all difference.

Hmm so no point buying a fancy soundcard then

I should be focusing on just getting a new CPU, Win7, Ram, SSD, A 1000w PSU

Suppose it is obvious, CPU cannot cope..... so buy a bigger CPU !

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth Hmm so no point buying a fancy soundcard then I should be focusing on just getting a new CPU, Win7, Ram, SSD, A 1000w PSU Suppose it is obvious, CPU cannot cope..... so buy a bigger CPU !

what latency are you trying to run at the moment???

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 what latency are you trying to run at the moment???

I don't think its latency thats the issue, its the CPU there is so much going on it hits 100% and the audio starts to stutter heavily. Impossible to make tunes that way

I use ASIO and have the buffer slider set to the highest sample it can go (the lower you go the worse the stuttering goes).

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth I don't think its latency thats the issue, its the CPU there is so much going on it hits 100% and the audio starts to stutter heavily. Impossible to make tunes that way I use ASIO and have the buffer slider set to the highest sample it can go (the lower you go the worse the stuttering goes).

fair enough, doesnt sound like a soundcard issue so

well until you get your new set up you can render to audio on each of your tracks to save on cpu

No worries Evo8 I just thought you could get external sound cards that would take the burden off the CPU when you have loads of VSTs running. Maybe you can but I have no idea what to look for if that does exist.

I tried to bounce down to wav but it takes the fun out of it Stewart, I lose the idea I had and then I just don't finish the track. I want to play everything live in the moment without having any stutter wrecking the session.

quote:

Originally posted by the-sixth No worries Evo8 I just thought you could get external sound cards that would take the burden off the CPU when you have loads of VSTs running. Maybe you can but I have no idea what to look for if that does exist. I tried to bounce down to wav but it takes the fun out of it Stewart, I lose the idea I had and then I just don't finish the track. I want to play everything live in the moment without having any stutter wrecking the session.

Im the same as you - i rarely ever bounce anything, only when recording external synths.

Would be good if you could try out (borrow) another soundcard just to make sure it isnt holding your system back. Setting a high latency will help your CPU but makes things annoying when using midi keyboards etc cos of the long delay between hitting a key and hearing a sound.

What is going here guys?

@ the sixth: You're running 15-20 tracks and the CPU is crapping out?

Considering you've got an i5 and at least an OK soundacard, this to me seems more like user error that making you run out of processing power, and the telltale sign of this is that you're using Rbass on your bass tracks

The main drive could be a factor, but nearly every drive unless you down spec it is going to be a major brand 7200rpm and that simply should not give the limitation you're facing.

I bet you're using inserts instead of aux sends, meaning every individual FX on each channel is discrete? Sylenth and waves are also a resource hog (especially the free versions )

And with pads, what are you using? Omnisphere? Same as above.

Learn to use sends, stop using FX that aren't appropriate (Rbass etc), and if you're suing cracks, that won't help the situation either.

I run a 2008 imac (with an SSD) and I can easily got to 40-50 tracks before things start getting funky.

As Echosystem stated (but I'll further clarify*) a soundcard *once you get past onboard chips* isn't going to effect performance that wildly. Class compliant devices aren't quite as efficient as proprietary driver based soundcards, and there is a tiny bit of difference at the very high end when doing many tracks at low latency, but other than that, a tascam us122 will yield virtually no CPU advantage over a Motu interface that costs 10 times as much.

Shit sucks when things go funky.

Cracks generally use the same or less as they don't make requests to call home and shit.

My guess is every synth is nexus, using ozone5 as an insert on each channel. Rbass is light n the CPU no ?

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Cracks generally use the same or less as they don't make requests to call home and shit. \

That's not quite true. Crack stability is dependent on versions, and often the v1 release is buggy as fuck not to mention a CPU hog. Battery 3 was a prime example of this. The first two revisions weren't worth owning - legit users got the updates quick but it took a couple of years for the updates to then be cracked and filter down.

Some waves cracks (given this was a few years ago) were notorious for being CPU hogs where the real deal weren't. There was even talk that some smaller software companies were putting out buggy/hoggy cracks as a way to get people to demo their shit, in the hopes that people would get sick of the crap performance and buy the real deal. That doesn;t even mention anything with a copy protection emu suck as ilok which is a sure fire way to kneecap your CPU.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney My guess is every synth is nexus, using ozone5 as an insert on each channel. Rbass is light n the CPU no ?

Lol. Rbass is light, but using it on bass is a quintessential rookie mistake and indicative of someone not knowing what they're doing with FX. Like "it's got bass in the title, it must make it phat". I'm going for even split of Sylenth and Nexus, with a waves mercury bundle (because why wouldn't you spend $6300 on FX plugins for making EDM in your bedroom) and Ozone everywhere else.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.