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Exploring the fundamentals of synthesis

Hey guys,

For the past few years my intention in music has grown to be around the concept of experiencing deeper internal musical states and translating those experiences through the DAW in order for others to feel and experience them. I experimented with the uses of the DAW over the years, however I always found myself not as in sync as I'd like to be with it, simply because the depth of use would extend nothing further than searching through an array of presets and samples and losing my creative intentions while aimlessly trying to scratch the surfaces of learning the functions of one VST or another. I've had fun with it, but after discovering the music that Fractal and certain other artists have produced, it showed me that an entirely different dimension of this expression is possible. As far as my intuition for translating the melodic, percussive and conceptual elements of these experiences goes, I feel very ready to explore that realm, however when it comes to the moment of directly translating sound, my process of learning to do so has been rather stagnant. I've seen that through the use of synth many artists have been able to breach the barriers of simply using samples or presets and really express a deeper personal meaning. My problem is that as I try to learn the functions of the various synths that are available for use, I'm finding that all I'm being taught through tutorials is what the various nobs do on some end-result level, but not adopting any fundamental understanding of the true function, mathematics or relationships in the language. All I really mean by this is that I've only had true intuitive control of anything in life when I've understood it on a fundamental level. I also feel that my ability to adopt deeper and more expansive or diverse understandings comes from this original fundamental understanding, which I'm simply not getting from the various tutorials I've browsed through.

I'm really interested in learning about the processes that many of you have undergone in order to gain the understandings you currently have, so that I can perhaps apply it to my own learning curve.

I look forward to hearing from you

Buy a book on synthesis?

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 Buy a book on synthesis?

I definitely agree that sort of thing is the most logical approach to take, I suppose I just feel that a really intuitive way for me to learn in the past has been to work directly with people so that I could address questionable areas directly. I also feel like, from what I've gathered, that there are many artists who took very different routes than each other to learning synth and got to comparable end results. So it's these various routes that I'm trying to inquire about. Do you use synth in your art? What was your process of experimentation like?

lol

quote:

Originally posted by PaULiN0 lol

What does it mean? You're such a useless idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by future_newbie What does it mean? You're such a useless idiot.

Do I haven to explain myself for each post I make, God, the newbs on this forum.

If you have nothing to say at least keep your mouth shut.

Are you trying to learn synthesis, or sound design? IOW, are you struggling to figure out what the controls on a synth do and how to make one parameter modulate another, or are you struggling with putting these concepts into practice e.g., to make a sound that you can hear in your head?

quote:

Originally posted by future_newbie If you have nothing to say at least keep your mouth shut.

Oh god, what, you think your a mod all of a sudden with rules under your belt? What i can't fucking laugh christ sakes, holy shit we gotta winner here. I could say what the hell I want you rotten no skilled piece of shit.

Render,

Everyone approaches the creative process differently at technical skill levels.

That said, here is what works for me while I am still largely in the learning phase of how synthesis works and can't yet translate my ideas fully into sounds from scratch.

Just making sounds with a synthesizer and playing around with them gives me ideas for songs that I didn't even know I wanted to make. Since you already start with a sound that you created, you can get that personal connection through your DAW / synths easier and into a song because you have your first starting point into the track. If it doesn't work or you can't do the track justice, just go back to learning your synths and making new sounds and repeat the process.

Not to kill this thread from me laughing but this is what i'm pointing out that had a little humor.

quote:

Originally posted by Render Do you use synth in your art?

This question was little sketchy and mad have agiggle if thats a crime here shit man wtf.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Are you trying to learn synthesis, or sound design? IOW, are you struggling to figure out what the controls on a synth do and how to make one parameter modulate another, or are you struggling with putting these concepts into practice e.g., to make a sound that you can hear in your head?

I suppose on some level it may be a bit of both, given that from what I can imagine, it would take an understanding of how the controls work to in turn generate a sound I'm hearing internally, but mainly speaking I don't have much difficulty understanding what's being taught in a tutorial about the functions of a synth. When learning about oscillators, filters, envelopes, etc it all makes sense for me to apply, however I know that the sounds I'm hearing in my head would require a combination of many of these functions, and its that part that I'm not seeming to have an intuitive understanding of. It's the relationship between all of them to create a desired result that I'm not grasping as naturally as I feel I should. I know that further experimentation would help me to some degree, but I've experimented enough to feel as though I'm not making the kind of progress I could if I could directly work with people who already have this understanding.

quote:

Originally posted by PaULiN0 Not to kill this thread from me laughing but this is what i'm pointing out that had a little humor. This question was little sketchy and mad have agiggle if thats a crime here shit man wtf.

lol, understandable. I guess I was wanting to distinguish between whether or not he was an artist who mainly used sample based VSTs or presets as opposed to modulating the controls of a synth for his artistic intentions.

quote:

Originally posted by djnitride Render, Everyone approaches the creative process differently at technical skill levels. That said, here is what works for me while I am still largely in the learning phase of how synthesis works and can't yet translate my ideas fully into sounds from scratch. Just making sounds with a synthesizer and playing around with them gives me ideas for songs that I didn't even know I wanted to make. Since you already start with a sound that you created, you can get that personal connection through your DAW / synths easier and into a song because you have your first starting point into the track. If it doesn't work or you can't do the track justice, just go back to learning your synths and making new sounds and repeat the process.

Makes sense, and I've definitely had some fun and made progress with this approach. I find that there are two mainly dominant ways in which I approach making a track. One is to discover inspiration through an instrument or sound, like what you were describing, and the other is from a premeditated musical experience, where I've in essence heard the governing concepts of the piece on an in-depth level mentally, and have then made an attempt to share it using the DAW. I really feel that the deeper levels of my expressive potential exists in that second method I described, but it really requires that I have much more dynamic relationship with my tool set than I currently have. I know I'd learn a lot more through further experimentation, but it's really informative to hear all of your thoughts on the matter.

I started using synths before most of you were born, and I cut my teeth the manly way, with an analog mono synth. Seriously, though, it was a long, slow process to get from making simple lead sounds and stupid farting, siren, etc. effects to really understanding how to make a sound from scratch, or try to recreate a sound in a song that I like. A large part of that is simply experience.

I think it's a good idea to start with a few basic synths and familiarize yourself with the different types of synthesis (e.g., subtractive, FM, additive, granular) and the general characteristics associated with each one. Most of the sounds you'll make (and most of the synths you probably already own) are subtractive synths, but many of those will have some rudimentary implementation of FM. After that, think about the character of the sound - does it sound like a saw, triangle, square, FM, noise, etc.? This comes down to experience and knowing what each of these sounds like (and don't sound like). Are there complex harmonics/overtones? If so, you could be hearing wavetables, additive, or FM sounds.

Next focus on the envelopes. This area is rather simple - listen to the sound and visualize the shape of the envelope in your head e.g., short plucks with 0 attack, short sustain and release, vs. slow pad with long attack and long release. Also listen to what the filter is doing - is it opening and closing with an envelope as well and, if so, is is fast, slow, etc.? Is it a low-pass, hi-pass, band-pass, etc. How much resonance? Is the resonance also being modulated? Also, is the pitch of the sound being modulated by an envelope? Listen for things that are modulating in a repeating fashion (i.e., LFOs).

These are some of the fundamental things that I listen for and think about for the coarse part of sound design. Of course, it gets much more complex than that very quickly, but I would suggest getting these basics down first. Start with a rather simple subtractive synth to keep things easy.

One book that I would definitely recommend, if you haven't already read it, is the old Simon Cann classic How to Make a Noise.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik I started using synths before most of you were born, and I cut my teeth the manly way, with an analog mono synth. Seriously, though, it was a long, slow process to get from making simple lead sounds and stupid farting, siren, etc. effects to really understanding how to make a sound from scratch, or try to recreate a sound in a song that I like. A large part of that is simply experience. I think it's a good idea to start with a few basic synths and familiarize yourself with the different types of synthesis (e.g., subtractive, FM, additive, granular) and the general characteristics associated with each one. Most of the sounds you'll make (and most of the synths you probably already own) are subtractive synths, but many of those will have some rudimentary implementation of FM. After that, think about the character of the sound - does it sound like a saw, triangle, square, FM, noise, etc.? This comes down to experience and knowing what each of these sounds like (and don't sound like). Are there complex harmonics/overtones? If so, you could be hearing wavetables, additive, or FM sounds. Next focus on the envelopes. This area is rather simple - listen to the sound and visualize the shape of the envelope in your head e.g., short plucks with 0 attack, short sustain and release, vs. slow pad with long attack and long release. Also listen to what the filter is doing - is it opening and closing with an envelope as well and, if so, is is fast, slow, etc.? Is it a low-pass, hi-pass, band-pass, etc. How much resonance? Is the resonance also being modulated? Also, is the pitch of the sound being modulated by an envelope? Listen for things that are modulating in a repeating fashion (i.e., LFOs). These are some of the fundamental things that I listen for and think about for the coarse part of sound design. Of course, it gets much more complex than that very quickly, but I would suggest getting these basics down first. Start with a rather simple subtractive synth to keep things easy. One book that I would definitely recommend, if you haven't already read it, is the old Simon Cann classic How to Make a Noise.

Thanks a lot. It really helps to hear those words coming from someone of your level of experience. Really reaffirms the idea that in order to achieve complexity by choice, the basics are where to begin. I know that it sounds very obvious, but a very popular culture today seems to be focusing on the idea of knowing how to recreate a sound they've heard in a song by memorizing the arrangement of knobs rather than understanding how the sound is really functioning. I've always wanted to know why and how it worked, so that if I knew how to make one sound with that understanding I'd also have the opportunity to make a whole array of other sounds using the same understanding, rather than being limited to the one that I memorized. I'll definitely look into the book you suggested. Have you uploaded any of your work? I'd be happy to take a listen.

what ive done:

read up on synthesis examples online
asked "how was this sound made" questions
watched various tutorials on synthesis online
read a couple of books on synthesis

its a long road and id probably still describe myself as being at a fairly novice level still

You mentioned the "mathematics" once or twice, and, I could be wrong, but I get the sense from your writing that you have a left-brain tendency. You might actually find FM synthesis right up your alley. It's very powerful and I think it's well suited for left-brain thinkers because there is a large mathematics component to it. A person doesn't need to know all the math behind it for it to be useful, but I think that it would be more intuitive to a person who excels at math.

quote:

Originally posted by Render Have you uploaded any of your work? I'd be happy to take a listen.

I'm not a commercial sound designer. The only downloadable sounds I have are in a bank created by several of us TAs for the Access Virus a few years ago. If you have a Virus TI/TI2, you can download it from the Access website. I created the first 64 sounds in the bank. Unfortunately, we never created an audio demo for it.

Cryophonik pretty much summed it up for you in his post.
I have a couple of things to add too.

Choose just ONE synth and stick with it for a long time.
Get to learn your synth inside and out.
That amazing feature on a newly released softsynth sounds cool, but you probably won�t need it (yet).

As cryophonik said, start with a basic synth.
Something like FabFilter One is a great little softsynth to learn the basics of synthesis with (which I did back in 2005).
Sometimes you just need to get back to the basics and relearn everything again.

Sound on Sound�s 'Synth Secrets' is still worth mentioning too:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

I haven�t read or used the following, but you might find them interesting:
- Rob Papen�s book 'The 4 Element Synth', which comes with a couple of DVD's.
- Syntorial

Good luck!

P.S. Read the manual. I'm not saying this in a patronizing way,
but you won't believe how much you can actually learn by taking a couple of hours
to read it.

quote:

Originally posted by PaULiN0 Not to kill this thread from me laughing but this is what i'm pointing out that had a little humor. This question was little sketchy and mad have agiggle if thats a crime here shit man wtf.

That's the point. At least specify.

And no, I am not a mod, but you're still annoying and is my right to say it.

quote:

Originally posted by Render lol, understandable. I guess I was wanting to distinguish between whether or not he was an artist who mainly used sample based VSTs or presets as opposed to modulating the controls of a synth for his artistic intentions.

Its all good man.

I'm gonna start exploring additive synthesis soon once my kawai gets here.

quote:

Originally posted by Render Makes sense, and I've definitely had some fun and made progress with this approach. I find that there are two mainly dominant ways in which I approach making a track. One is to discover inspiration through an instrument or sound, like what you were describing, and the other is from a premeditated musical experience, where I've in essence heard the governing concepts of the piece on an in-depth level mentally, and have then made an attempt to share it using the DAW. I really feel that the deeper levels of my expressive potential exists in that second method I described, but it really requires that I have much more dynamic relationship with my tool set than I currently have. I know I'd learn a lot more through further experimentation, but it's really informative to hear all of your thoughts on the matter.

Yeah, I plan on attempting the second method when I have enough experience for it to be effective. I have tried it and I just wasn't there yet. Until then, the first method is how I learn.

Also just a random tip, I find tutorials on youtube for synthesis most useful when they are showing how to make a certain classification of sound (ie an evolving pad, stabbing lead, etc) from scratch. They usually explain what each step is for and show their own process which can be very insightful. I think those are generally much better then the ones where they are reproducing some popular sound but not really explaining the reason behind each step.

Some good advice from some here. It's a time consuming process to really develop solid synthesis skill, requiring a lot of experimentation, patience and persistence, but it does sound like you're on the right track.
I second Simon Cann's book and the SOS articles, fantastic resources. I'd also add Welshe's Synthesizer Cookbooks as they really shows another approach to subtractive synthesis through harmonic analysis or the overtone series. This method is great for analysing any sound you like, and getting in the ballpark of recreating that sound using some simple subtractive principles.

Another important aspect of sound design I feel is often overlooked is that of recording/sampling, combining and manipulating recorded audio material, a lot of the time it's more straightforward in achieving certain kinds of complex sounds than trying to synthesize everything.

quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien Another important aspect of sound design I feel is often overlooked is that of recording/sampling, combining and manipulating recorded audio material, a lot of the time it's more straightforward in achieving certain kinds of complex sounds than trying to synthesize everything.

Taking a trip down the "Absynth hole": the endless cycle of making samples to use as input to make samples and use as input

Buy a synth(a real physical one), and not a cheap synth...a good synth like a VIRUS or one that lets you really sculpt the sounds using filters and pwm, one that has multiple oscillators, one that has unison, maybe some onbaord fx like phaser, reverb...

then get to know it. read the manuals, undersand how each part connects to the next, understand what an envelope is, I mean really, it wwill take you a while (like many MANY hours) to grasp the concept of an envelope, and the ADSR. these are probably the most important things. you might get it logically but it will take along time to really understand how you can start to manipulate envelopes and filters and oscillators and PWM and subtractive synthesis vs additive to create exotic and "mind-alteriung" sounds that are in your mind.

understand ADSR, understand the difference between the fundamental tones and what harmonics means. understand the difference between frequency and amplitude. undersatnd what an lfo is.....I mean go look up the science about what a wave is, and why a sine wave soudns the way it does vs a hoarmonically rich wave like the square wave

when you listen someones music try and train your ears to pick out how they made that sound, is a square wave or a saw wave...or is it a mix a both...or is is it a pitch envelope or a filter envelope that is making that WEEEOOOOOHHHHH sound

go listen these artists youre inspired by and try and re create the sounds that you think are really amazing...

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