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can people change or are they pretty much the same throughout their lives?

i was just going through some mp3 files and i came across some self-help stuff i downloaded for someone that was having a personal crisis and wanted to do something about it. in the end, she didn't even listen to it, and still has crisis but is in deeper shit now.

i think about myself, and although i want to change somethings about myself, i eventually find that i'm essentially the same person. for instance, i want to become more organized in my business side of things, but i'm as disorganized as before even though i know i shouldn't be and don't want to be and that my disorganization is harmful.

so what is it, are people sort of set in their ways from childhood? is real change for the better possible? or are the experiences of childhood forever casting a shadow over one's adult life?

I believe people can change. Just look at how many born-again Christians there are out there.

Everyone changes by the minute. You don't stay the same, although you might have convictions that prove to stand the test of time, in essence, eventhough some circumstances elicit programmed responses, every instance in itself is different.

Be adept to change.

I don't have anything empirical to back this up, but I really don't think people's personalities change that dramatically over time. While I think people can and sometimes do undergo a fundamentally transformative shift in their lives, the appearance of change is usually just an updated expression of the way they've always been and will continue to be.

In a nutshell, yes I think you can change yourself. Changing other people is a completely different story.

I think one's personal belief about whether someone can change goes hand-in-hand with their own view of themselves. I've changed tremendously for the better in the past five years. Sure, a statement like 'for the better' has its own philosophical questions, but I'm more focused on doing what I think is best for me than worrying about it. People can change if they put in the effort and follow the right formula to instill it. Although with bumps along the road and days when I feel like it's useless, I've put in a lot of energy to deconstructing and rewiring my mind over the last year by reading a lot about it (Osho was a good start) and putting it into practice (affirmations, mindfulness, meditation). I had quite a fucked up childhood, adolescence, and my early 20s were a blur. There's a lot of good to take from it all and I wouldn't trade any of that experience for anything else in the world. But it's definitely thrown up some roadblocks as I try to reshape my personality and develop a more positive outlook on life in general. Perspective is a big part of that. The best measure of this is the people around you; your family and friends. You can say you've changed all you want, but if the people who know you the best haven't noticed then you haven't done shit.

One example of what I've been working on: my anger. I've always been a very reactive person. Although I still react at times when I get trapped in the situation, I've learned how to ease back, assess the situation, and respond to it instead. To me, that's a small but very significant change. Emotional intelligence 101. Changing your attitudes and behaviors. It works wonders.

I'm sure someone on here can pull empirical evidence to support one claim or the other, but I usually like to just speak from firsthand experience anyways.

Change, although difficult, is very much possible in my opinion.

You can certainly change stuff like your level of organisation. It's all about forming good habits, and it's really not difficult.

Sometimes it takes a long time to figure out who you really are. I don't know if that counts as change or not.

Pretty much agree with what has been said. Your personality is essentially something like your essence (which I think is one of the reasons people who are 'zombified' by meds report losing their personalities, their souls). And forming good habits is essentially about disciplining yourself, i.e. bettering yourself.

I know a guy who used to work for the Italian mafia here in Brooklyn. He was a very wild man, always getting into all sorts of shit. For the last decade or so he's been helping people heal, training himself and others in physical fitness, and pretty much living a healthy, purposeful lifestyle. He's also probably a rabbi by now. But if someone crosses his path, he won't hesitate to throw a beatdown. Guess it's just part of his personality.

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Originally posted by OrangestO Changing other people is a completely different story.

You mean brainwash?

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred You mean brainwash?

Now there's another thread idea.

But I was talking in general. People have to want to change themselves before anyone can 'help' them do it. That's sort of what I was getting at.

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Originally posted by Paradox Lost I don't have anything empirical to back this up, but I really don't think people's personalities change that dramatically over time. While I think people can and sometimes do undergo a fundamentally transformative shift in their lives, the appearance of change is usually just an updated expression of the way they've always been and will continue to be.

I agree with this. Sure, people can adjust their thoughts, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviours - but does that really equal true change?

I think the person we're meant to be is always there, but over time experiences build up that can take away from the ability to express who we truly are, or are meant to become through growth and "change".

I suppose I'm talking about authenticity. I think people either discover who they really are, or not. I think of change more like peeling back and removing the layers of bullshit that have built up over the years, and unlearning all the crap that hides our true nature.


Nope, no empirical evidence for that, but what the fuck ever.

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson I agree with this. Sure, people can adjust their thoughts, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviours - but does that really equal true change?

What else is there to change?

Motivations and desires. Intention. Are those not the things that drive the rest of our behaviour?

Avana.

See? Perfect example. She felt that she had ALWAYS been Avana, and it's not that she changed into her, it's that she always WAS her...just all covered up by Adam. So she stripped Adam off and revealed her true self.

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson I agree with this. Sure, people can adjust their thoughts, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviours - but does that really equal true change?

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson I think of change more like peeling back and removing the layers of bullshit that have built up over the years, and unlearning all the crap that hides our true nature.

All that so-called bullshit over the years has had a hand in shaping our thoughts, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors. I think change is learning that about your yourself and making the necessary...er, changes.

One thing I've learned is that motivation, inclination and desires come through change of behavior, not the opposite.

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson Motivations and desires. Intention. Are those not the things that drive the rest of our behaviour?

A little redundant no? Motivation and intention both stem from desire imo.

It's cyclic really.

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson Motivations and desires. Intention. Are those not the things that drive the rest of our behaviour?

I would have thought they fall under "Thoughts, attitudes and beliefs". And do you really think your desires never change? I would have thought that's one of the most malleable parts of our personality. My desires as a 7 year old kid aren't going to be the same as a 17 year old, a 37 year old and a 77 year old.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred One thing I've learned is that motivation, inclination and desires come through change of behavior, not the opposite.

Huh? What about the desire to change your behavior?

Considering how difficult it is, you can't change anything about your being without a deep desire to do so.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J My desires as a 7 year old kid aren't going to be the same as a 17 year old, a 37 year old and a 77 year old.

True, but as a 17 year old, a 37 year old and a 77 year old, some might.

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Originally posted by OrangestO Huh? What about the desire to change your behavior?

That's different. That's willpower I guess, but when you persist in the new behavior, your desire for the former one may diminish. This accords with what I mentioned.

Put in simplest terms...

Yes but No.

Yea, but before willpower you must have desire, no?

I have the desire to change. I have the willpower to initiate this change. I am acting to change. I am changing.

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