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Pyongyang has the bomb........

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm..._north_korea_14

I think I speak for all of us when I say.......










Oh shit

i just read that before i got ta.
omfg.
communism wanst supposed to be like this

well, i have two things to say about this:

1. what a suprise.. I mean, who THINKS that they will stick to the treaty? No country does. And it is nice that they actually told the US about this, since it appears that the intelliegence has failed (again?)

2.

quote:

The dramatic disclosure complicates President Bush (news - web sites)'s campaign to disarm Iraq under threat of military force, coming almost nine months after Bush said North Korea was part of an "axis of evil" along with Iran and Iraq.

With comments like this, Bush is sure to make a good impression on North Korea. I mean, if he calls them an "Axis of Evil" in public, how are they supposed to react?
Nice of them to actually say what they have.

I'm not really scared. What however DOES worry me is the fact that Pakistan (our so called partner in the war on terrorism) has a-bombs. And that Iran and Iraw are on their way too...

quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 With comments like this, Bush is sure to make a good impression on North Korea. I mean, if he calls them an "Axis of Evil" in public, how are they supposed to react? Nice of them to actually say what they have.

i think bush uses the word evil way too much. really makes me think less of his intelligence. i can't wait until we get him out of office.

i was going to make a thread about this one, but decided to wait till the politics forum opened... guess we can start now then

as drizzt said, this is hardly shocking news, a CIA report in january said that during the second half of last year, North Korea "continued its attempts to procure technology worldwide that could have applications in its nuclear program." "We assess that North Korea has produced enough plutonium for at least one, and possibly two, nuclear weapons."
It is very surprising however that the North Koreans decided to go public with this, especially now - it sure does heats things up, cause now the general public gets all worked up about it.
personally i am not that scared of NK as a conquering empire becuase since the 50's they havent showed any imperialistic views on expanding their nation. I am scared however of a line i saw reported by the AP (i cant seem to find it now, been looking) that says that NK has and is selling long range rockets as well as other military weaponary to countries such as Iran, Syria and Iraq.

Its not like the USA doesn't own weapons of mass destruction.

I think the so called "axis of evil" has that "if THEY got em WE got to have too" mentality.

Personally I think all the leaders should get togther and have a "disarm our nukes party". Have Armin spin Smoke a J pop a pill.

it will be interesting to c how bush handles this.

quote:

Originally posted by butterfly i think bush uses the word evil way too much. really makes me think less of his intelligence. i can't wait until we get him out of office.

but 'they are the bad guys'..

honestly, i cannot stand the overly religious (zealous?) stance bush puts on EVERYTHING.

of course, it is a great way to gather support.

quote:

Originally posted by drizzt81 but 'they are the bad guys'.. honestly, i cannot stand the overly religious (zealous?) stance bush puts on EVERYTHING. of course, it is a great way to gather support.

for the middle part of the country, maybe. things aren't so religiously driven where i live. it really irritates me. but then, i didn't vote for him.

If they wanted to puzzle Washington, I think that it was a very smart move.

If they bomb Iraq and negotiate with Pyongyang, they'll totally lose the remaing international support Washington has got, because it'll show their double standards and that, the problem in Iraq is not the bomb at all.

If they bomb both countries, it'll be a huge mistake, because they'll just destroy all the work for peace that was being done in the Far East and I'm not quite sure if the American economy would be ready for such thing.

If they negotiate with both governments, Bush will lose his chances of overthrowing Saddam, as he wanted to. In fact, Bush biggest problems are the petroleum companies and the radicals jews inside the government (and maybe, even himself ).

The rad jews won't ever support the creation of a Palestine state, which is the source of all this mess in the middle east. If Washington showed the arab nations that they're willing to promote peace for both sides, things will calm down (including the terrorist threatnings America is so affraid of).

I believe I don't need to mention anything about the petroleum companies, do I?

it's south korea that should be worried.....those two are always on the brink of war.....sad init that countries have to fight for no reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Maaz If they wanted to puzzle Washington, I think that it was a very smart move. If they bomb Iraq and negotiate with Pyongyang, they'll totally lose the remaing international support Washington has got, because it'll show their double standards and that, the problem in Iraq is not the bomb at all. If they bomb both countries, it'll be a huge mistake, because they'll just destroy all the work for peace that was being done in the Far East and I'm not quite sure if the American economy would be ready for such thing. If they negotiate with both governments, Bush will lose his chances of overthrowing Saddam, as he wanted to. In fact, Bush biggest problems are the petroleum companies and the radicals jews inside the government (and maybe, even himself ). The rad jews won't ever support the creation of a Palestine state, which is the source of all this mess in the middle east. If Washington showed the arab nations that they're willing to promote peace for both sides, things will calm down (including the terrorist threatnings America is so affraid of). I believe I don't need to mention anything about the petroleum companies, do I?

well i see your point of view.

the problem is, that point of view seems like its dragging up another flame the US thread.

the truth of the matter it, regardless of whether N Korea is bluffing, or just trying to confuse us or whatever, we STILL have Buch in office. it prolly wont affect anything besides creating another war he can rant about.

i also dont really see why you brought up 'radical jews'. i know what you mean, and i may agree with that in some ways, but that really has nothing to do with the fact that Jong Il has been creating a bomb in a Stalinist Comm country for the past 10 years. even the UN will not stand for that...and they will gladly take care of this issue with or without the US' intervention(and YES, im sure the US will do something).

basically anyone outside the US will prolly give us a 'told you so' since we have nukes too, and no one else is supposed to. what we should all really be worrying about is SE Asia. there has been terrorism, threats of nuclear war and general infighting ever since the Cold War. sure Bush can get his panties in a bunch over here, and we will prolly be attacked again, but the US will be fine...its the rest of the world that needs stability(NOTE:that isnt a threat - just an observation). late|

quote:

Originally posted by butterfly i think bush uses the word evil way too much. really makes me think less of his intelligence. i can't wait until we get him out of office.

AGREED!

quote:

Originally posted by biznology the problem is, that point of view seems like its dragging up another flame the US thread.

This is the last thing I want to happen, don't worry. And I mentioned the jews because of Iraq, it's got nothing to do with Pyongyang.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology the problem is, that point of view seems like its dragging up another flame the US thread.

i think we should have a flame bush thread instead.

quote:

Originally posted by torontotrance it's south korea that should be worried.....those two are always on the brink of war.....sad init that countries have to fight for no reason.

...

i just know this. i remember reading some of the stupid things bush has said in his overly repetetive speeches.

"to NASA, space is still a priority..."

i almost died laughing..... lamer

Fun stuff. Doesn't really change anything, though.

i say N korea puts those nukes to use and drops them on the bush family...all of em....george bush george W> his slutty crackwhore daughters and especially ohhh ESPECIALLY BARBRA!!!!!

What a waste of our money

We spend billions of dollars of taxpayer money to fund the building of two light water nuclear reactors in N. Korea so that they don't develop nuclear weapons and we just take them for their word???? The diplomats who worked out this stupid treaty should be shot for incompetance. Screw it ... half the world should be shot for incompetance.

Sorry, just pissed that a $1000 a month goes into taxes when the government plays with it like it's monopoly money.

ok i'm not going to do another really long post b/c i'm too tired, but i'll sum up some answers to your questions :yawn:.... argh, i'm tired...

The reason we "trusted" North Korea to develop this technology is b/c after the conflict in the mid to late 50's, they have shown nothing but honest strides to attempt a peace/negotiate instead of war.... (you haven't seen a full-blown attack on south korea in the last 50 years have you?)

The problem is the previous people in power after the original conflict were willing to work with us and negotiate - unfortunately not too long ago newer people are really in power (despite the same figureheads), and the anti-US sentiments were still there from the original war....

We however did not know this, and we helped them out developing cleaner, more productive sources of energy with the nuclear plants... they also requested to do an atomic study program, for alternate power sources... Now the U.N. pretty much handled the negotiations, with the Atomic Nuclear Board and what have you... (i believe General Muhammed-something-or-other is in charge of this board...forgive me i can't remember his name)... They authorized the North Koreans to do studies, and unfortunately the N. Koreans were aiming their studies in a different direction...

Now here's the cut: they don't HAVE nuclear power yet, they are on their way to understanding how to use uranium and make it react to fuel the reactors and fuels to produce atomic energy... so in other words, on plain paper you STILL wouldn't know the difference between honest-to-goodness atomic power studies or nuke-making... - the fact we were tipped off is the only red flag here.... stupidly , they admitted to it (they could have gotten away with it had they denied the charges). Because of this, that is why 'only' talks are going on right now and investigations... no declaration of war, nothing special.

As of now its really nothing to be worried about... i figure by the end of investigations and "getting to the bottom of this", the whole project will have been terminated. The best part, is this is 100% up to the U.N. and the US may play a role simply b/c they are a large part of the U.N., but it won't be a US-only war... if there even is a war.

The reason you hear about this all over the news is not because they HAVE a nuke, its not critical - just such a surprise and everyone thinks we were played the fool. But can you blame us? Take an ex-con out of jail who makes an honest living for almost 50 years - would you really expect him to turn to crime once again randomly .... after 50 years!??

argh, time to sleep.... so much for 'not doing a long post'...
-ABT-

As a result of ABT's post ... I stand corrected. I really can't argue since I don't know all that much about Korean history/policy. Haha give me 20th century europe or the middle east any day.

quote:

Originally posted by ABTsportsline ok i'm not going to do another really long post b/c i'm too tired, but i'll sum up some answers to your questions :yawn:.... argh, i'm tired... The reason we "trusted" North Korea to develop this technology is b/c after the conflict in the mid to late 50's, they have shown nothing but honest strides to attempt a peace/negotiate instead of war.... (you haven't seen a full-blown attack on south korea in the last 50 years have you?) But can you blame us? Take an ex-con out of jail who makes an honest living for almost 50 years - would you really expect him to turn to crime once again randomly .... after 50 years!?? argh, time to sleep.... so much for 'not doing a long post'... -ABT-

But I will say this ... we've never had the attitude of completely trusting the N. Koreans. There's a reason why the US has never adopted a worldwide ban on land mines despite the worldwide push for such a treaty over the past 20 years. That's because we have millions between a mere 40,000 or so US troops and the entire N. Korean army. These minefields are one of the main deterrants of a N. Korean attack. I don't know how we can diplomatically trust them yet militarily adopt a different perspective.

Also I should say that I can remember quite clearly to 1994 and at that time there was never such an atmosphere that we "trusted" the N. Koreans. I remember that treaty as being a landmark event in progress with former enemies. If things were so buddy buddy with them then why has N. Korea been such a taboo country according to US standards and therefore why were we so lax in reinforcing treaty obligations?

quote:

Originally posted by occrider But I will say this ... we've never had the attitude of completely trusting the N. Koreans. There's a reason why the US has never adopted a worldwide ban on land mines despite the worldwide push for such a treaty over the past 20 years. That's because we have millions between a mere 40,000 or so US troops and the entire N. Korean army. These minefields are one of the main deterrants of a N. Korean attack. I don't know how we can diplomatically trust them yet militarily adopt a different perspective.

true. but you can't just "get rid" of thousands of land mines... it isn't economically feasible to get rid of them...

There's a job in the military called "EOD" - explosive ordinance disposal, and its their job to locate and defuse these objects... a VERY tough job and the military has a dire need for these specialists - but it costs a LOT of money to train (and retain) them...

Now you send a unit of EOD over to Korea, it would take over 20 years to locate and defuse these mines that we didnt even put down there - a TRUE waste of taxpayers money... you do the math

quote:

Originally posted by ABTsportsline true. but you can't just "get rid" of thousands of land mines... it isn't economically feasible to get rid of them... There's a job in the military called "EOD" - explosive ordinance disposal, and its their job to locate and defuse these objects... a VERY tough job and the military has a dire need for these specialists - but it costs a LOT of money to train (and retain) them... Now you send a unit of EOD over to Korea, it would take over 20 years to locate and defuse these mines that we didnt even put down there - a TRUE waste of taxpayers money... you do the math

Hehe well if I did read my history books right we did put those mines there. I'm sure that S. Korea didn't have the resources to put them in place directly following the Korean war. Also the treaty ban on landmines required the eventual removement of landmines much of which was funded by the UN. If I recall the article I read, the US specifically vetoed the ban to keep those land mines in place. I could be wrong since read about the issue a while ago but I have to wake up early for work tomorrow and dont have time to reaseach haha.

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