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Routing Hardware question

I think if i go down the road of getting a drum machine that i will want each drum channel coming into Live, so i can process each channel separately.

To achieve this im thinking i will also need a mixer? Which I could also run my synths through...

Doing some googling tonight leads me to believe i would need a mixer with some sort of USB/Firewire capability, im thinking something like this will "show up" in Live much like an audio interface would

anyone here with drum machines?

I doubt you would need usb/firewire on the mixer if you have an audio interface that supports as many in/outs as you intend to use.

Depending on how much/which outboard you're working with you might want to consider a patchbay.

The best way to do this is to have an audio interface with at least as many inputs as you have individual outputs from the drum machine. For example, say your drum machine has 8 outputs (1 for each drum part). You'd simply route each drum part to an output from the drum machine, run a cable into each of your audio interface's inputs (assuming you have at least 8 ins), then set up 8 audio tracks in Live with the inputs set to receive the 8 inputs from your audio interface. Example:

Drum part 1 > Drum machine output 1 > Audio interface input 1 > Live audio track 1
Drum part 2 > Drum machine output 2 > Audio interface input 2 > Live audio track 2
Drum part 3 > Drum machine output 3 > Audio interface input 3 > Live audio track 3
etc.
Arm all tracks for recording and record the drums as they play. You'll want the tempo to be the same in Live and the drum machine and MIDI-sync them as well, if possible.

A second common way of doing this is to use just the main stereo outputs from the drum machine and multi-comp the drums, but this takes longer. Basically, you'd set up one track per party in Live and record each drum part individually by soloing them on your drum machine. Example:

Set up a kick drum track in Live with the drum machine channel as the input, solo the kick drum on the drum machine, record it.

Set up a snar track with the same input, solo the snare on the drum machine, record it.

Repeat for all drum parts.

What drum machine are u thinking of?

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie What drum machine are u thinking of?

thinking of the MFB Tanzbar...

Think theres 6 or 8 outputs on that, plus about 6 from my synths, thats about 12-14 inputs needed on an audio interface?? thats the problem as the UFX only has 8

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 thinking of the MFB Tanzbar... Think theres 6 or 8 outputs on that, plus about 6 from my synths, thats about 12-14 inputs needed on an audio interface?? thats the problem as the UFX only has 8

I believe the Tanzbar has 6 stereo 1/4-inch outputs, which could conceivably be 12 mono outputs, if you panned individual drum parts within the Tanzbar (but, I'm not positive about that). Your UFX has 8 analog 1/4-inch inputs, but you also have the digital inputs. One way to expand your UFX is to go with something like a Focusrite OctoPre, which could add 8 inputs that you could connect to your UFX via ADAT.

http://us.focusrite.com/mic-pres/octopre-mkii

ADAT is definitely the way to go.

Even the ADA8000/8200 are more than useable and they're cheap.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord ADAT is definitely the way to go. Even the ADA8000/8200 are more than useable and they're cheap.

thanks chaps, pity it only looks like 8 inputs on those, 16 would be more like it. Ill dig around for some more ADAT options

edit: unless i could make use of the MIC inputs on those behringers???

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 thanks chaps, pity it only looks like 8 inputs on those, 16 would be more like it. Ill dig around for some more ADAT options edit: unless i could make use of the MIC inputs on those behringers???

No, you have a total of 8 mono inputs on those, so you have to choose either line or mic for each input. By the way, here's what the Tanzbar manual:

quote:

Tanzb�r features one main audio out and six additional instrument outs. The latter are stereo jacks which put out two instrument signals each - one on each channel (except the Clap � this is a stereo sound). Please hook up the outputs with insert cables (Y-cables). For Clap, please use a stereo cable. If you plug a cable into an instrument out, the sound is cancelled from the main out. Please connect Tanzb�r�s main out to an audio mixer, soundcard, or amp, before you power Tanzb�r up. � BD Out left: Bassdrum1, right: Bassdrum 2 � SD/RS Out left: Snaredrum, right: Rimshot � HH/CY Out: left: Open/Closed Hihat, right: Cymbal � CP/Clap Out:the attack transients are spread across the stereo field � TO/CO Out:three Toms / Congas spread over the stereo field � CB/CL Out: left: Clave, right: Cowbell

I think you could get away with 10 inputs total for the Tanzbar. If you're only using six analog inputs on your UFX, you should be able to get enough channels between ADAT and the remaining analog inputs on your UFX???

You could also look at my he ferrofish A16 but it's quite pricey. You have 2 adat ins and outs though so you could connect 2 ada8000's for 24 total input channels.

You should be able to do it with the Roland TR-8, simply via USB:

The TR-8 USB out will only work on a Mac setup where you can aggregate different audio interfaces.

On a PC you have to choose the TR-8 as your main audio interface to use the audio over USB functionality, meaning you can't monitor the other elements in your track at the same time.

Really dumb if you ask me.

yeah that is a major design flaw regarding audio on PC.

To solve a similar problem I bought a soundcard with lots of ins/outs. I'd only go for a mixer if it has motorized faders and is able to store the fader positions per project. Since that was a lot more expensive and less flexible (imo) at the time than a soundcard with a patchbay I went for the latter and haven't had any regrets.

I'd highly suggest something like the ADAT as suggested earlier. But it ultimately comes down to what you think will work the best for you. For me the best workflow is achieved by getting the sounds inside my box as soon as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord The TR-8 USB out will only work on a Mac setup where you can aggregate different audio interfaces. On a PC you have to choose the TR-8 as your main audio interface to use the audio over USB functionality, meaning you can't monitor the other elements in your track at the same time. Really dumb if you ask me.

Not true, You can have multiple audio interfaces via ASIO4All, just download the latest driver and configure you ins and outs on the toolbar on the bottom right hand corner.

quote:

Originally posted by Innocence Lost Not true, You can have multiple audio interfaces via ASIO4All, just download the latest driver and configure you ins and outs on the toolbar on the bottom right hand corner.

yes and AFA sucks bigtime, latency is REALLY bad and it's unstable as hell.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie yes and AFA sucks bigtime, latency is REALLY bad and it's unstable as hell.

You know another alternative?

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik No, you have a total of 8 mono inputs on those, so you have to choose either line or mic for each input. By the way, here's what the Tanzbar manual: I think you could get away with 10 inputs total for the Tanzbar. If you're only using six analog inputs on your UFX, you should be able to get enough channels between ADAT and the remaining analog inputs on your UFX???

See i think those XLR connections also double as TRS - ive just discovered this on the UFX, so thats gives me an extra 4 mono inputs on UFX that i didnt realise i had!

I think with ADAT expansion i should have enough to cover a drum machine as well, saves me a buying a mixer then!

thanks everyone

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord You could also look at my he ferrofish A16 but it's quite pricey. You have 2 adat ins and outs though so you could connect 2 ada8000's for 24 total input channels.

yeah, nice option but i need to keep the cost down as much as i can!

Not on PC they can't.

And no, I wouldn't rely on ASIO4all, it really is rather flaky and the latency can be heruge.

quote:

Originally posted by Robotrance im pretty sure i used both my echo audiofire 2 and 12 simultaniously in reaper back in 2007/8. also with a esi midi device. but it could be that since the drivers for both echo af 2 and af 12 used same so it worked. i also blew up af 2 around that time lol.

Ah sometimes you can daisychain two interfaces if they're the same make as they share the driver. You can't use an RME and the TR8 at the same time however. It's not the physical interface that causes the issue, it's the way Windows looks at the drivers, or so I was told.

No. You can only run a single ASIO driver at a time, even with Reaper.

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