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-- Anyone read "what ISIS really wants" by Graem Wood in the recent Atlantic Magazine?

Anyone read "what ISIS really wants" by Graem Wood in the recent Atlantic Magazine?

http://www.theatlantic.com/features...y-wants/384980/

Highly recommend it to anyone interested in currewnt events, news, history, politics, etc.

TLDR: ISIS wants the world to return to the 6th century and bring about the end of the world. The real Islam is a religion full of bad ideas.

Well-thought out response piece: http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...ilizations-isnt

I don't know why some people are so eager to stress that Islam is "full of bad ideas". Let's say we discount all the factors that go into making some Muslims extremists and the majority not. Let's just say that Islam is full of bad ideas. What then?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't know why some people are so eager to stress that Islam is "full of bad ideas".

My simple guess is that simplistic narratives of an intrinsically evil Other are much easier for most people to comprehend than more accurate, multi-causal explanations. It's nice and easy to think the whole thing is rotten and needs to be destroyed, even if that's not accurate. Like most things in life, I suppose.

As to 'what then,' I really have never heard an intelligent proposition from those who consider Islam to be full of bad ideas. If it's really fully bad, then I suppose we ought to declare a war against it and attempt to eradicate it. However the fuck they propose we do that, without touching on genocide, leaves me at a loss.

The Islamic religion was created and based on a time when certain things made sense for the survival, social structures and environment of it's followers in the first Millennium. As with all religions, they serve a purpose and fill a need at the time.

That time for the modern world has passed and while most other organized religions allowed themselves to be diluted/eroded over time, Islam put in place things that would stop this erosion; no likenesses of the prophet (he remains sacred and therefore cannot be mocked or humanized), the all (Islam) or nothing stance in relation to other religions, the strict sociopolitical laws inherent to Islam, etc.

In it's conservative form, everyone outside of Islam is an enemy. I don't say this to antagonize - the Quran is clear on this - there are 109 verses in the book that call followers to war against non-believers to sustain Islamic rule.

I have a lot of Muslim friends, most of whom are extremely moderate, dress completely western, drink occasionally, have wealth etc, and they will tell you that they abhor the extremism within their religion, but were they start getting really vague and struggle to answer, is when you start talking about separation of Church and state - religion and law.

This is Islam's worst idea and why Islam will always be at odds with anywhere that does not want to follow Islamic law. It made sense in 800ad when you needed a common rule of law and a way to unite disparate tribes. It's a terrible idea to attempt to apply medieval law to the modern world.

This current conflict is really about power. The clerics at the center of the extremist movement are consolidating power. Islamic state is nothing more than a great marketing tool to unite different tribes under one banner, with one common enemy. And it's working because the enemy is happy to spend our taxes "defending peace".

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't know why some people are so eager to stress that Islam is "full of bad ideas". Let's say we discount all the factors that go into making some Muslims extremists and the majority not. Let's just say that Islam is full of bad ideas. What then?

convert them to a less evil religion.

Are you being serious?

He's trolling you.

In the case of Spacey Orange it's terrifyingly plausible that he means it.

I'm honestly pretty sure he means it.

There's no way. He must be trolling.

Playing devil's advocate, if you can convert rice why not islamic terrorists?

Oh I'll tell you what Isis wants
What they really really want
Oh tell me what Isis wants what they really really want

If you want to be their lover, you've gotta get with their friends.

I believe they want to be seen as a legitimate Caliphate. I have not read the aforementioned book.

its an article in the Atlantic magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN In it's conservative form, everyone outside of Islam is an enemy. I don't say this to antagonize - the Quran is clear on this - there are 109 verses in the book that call followers to war against non-believers to sustain Islamic rule.

We can basically say this about the other 2 of 3 religions (Christianity and Judaism)


Infidels (ie non believers) should be stoned and or killed without qualms

�If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you � Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.� (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)"


Should we not dissect all relgions and find people who are somewhat faithful, then question their merits in their professions and liveley hood based on the literal interpretations of the books?

I mean it's really silly when you think about it. All religions were created equally and one is just as irrational as the rest.

So we should either focus on the real problem, the people who have these radical ideas, isolate them as groups of such people and deal with them as criminals if they indeed act upon their beliefs.


OR should we simply abolish all organized faiths which are based on intangible facts, and aspire towards a civilization of higher learning.

I'm ok with either. But what i dont think is ok is a christian saying Islam is bad, or Judaism is bad etc.

Religion is not good or bad. It's mythology, so keep your fairy tales to yourselves in the comfort of your own homes.

I think the theological edifice is quite literal; words conveying extrasensorial perception and moral orientation. I believe these individuals witnessed supernatural phenomena associated to as-yet unknown physics and realms of the 'self'.

Jesus Christ was an exorcist. There are X-Files pertaining to the existence of 'demonic' possessions of the human 'will' and 'psyche' of humans or non-human passed. The scientific community finds no consensus; Quantum entanglement might hold the key; extra-dimensions of space time and higher levels of consciousness are attainable to the conduit.

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

Re: Anyone read "what ISIS really wants" by Graem Wood in the recent Atlantic Magazine?

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange http://www.theatlantic.com/features...y-wants/384980/ Highly recommend it to anyone interested in currewnt events, news, history, politics, etc. TLDR: ISIS wants the world to return to the 6th century and bring about the end of the world. The real Islam is a religion full of bad ideas.

Really good Graeme Wood interview about this issue

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-true-believers

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