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25 keys keyboard, and more importantly, a motor vehicle transmission debate

i see numerous threads across the the internet like '25 vs 49 keys', new users looking for advice... and almost unanimously the opinion is absolutely go for 49 keys - you will very quickly regret buying 25 keys.

well i bought 25 keys and i am not yet regretting it. in fact in have discovered little 4 bar chords and progressions (or whatever they're called!) that i'm VERY pleasantly surprised at, and i am not sure i would have found these on a bigger 49 keys board - at least not so quickly

maybe the cut down stature of 25 keys makes it easier for beginners to digest. 49 keys may be a little daunting, even though it is the same thing with more octaves ready available.

i haven't read anything about piano theory or anything so i am surprised at how quickly i have learned these little routines. it's not like playing an actual complex melody or anything - just like leads or basslines.

most synths only sound good (or at their natural best) over the span of two octaves anyway. what are people with larger keyboards doing with them that 25 keyers can't?

i will be upgrading in the future and i am looking for reasons why it should be 49 instead of 25 keys, considering the space it takes up. i think it would be another 25 keys though. in the middle would be ideal - 37 keys - then i would never even have to press the octave button - but those seem to have fallen out of fashion somehow.

49 or more keys takes up a lot of space, but 25 keys can easily run out of notes. Tit for tat, I suppose.

I don't regret buying a 25 key controller, but I have on several occasions wished I had a 49 key version when I run out of room laying down a large range of notes.

The number of keys has nothing to do with beginner vs. pro. 4-year-olds can easily learn to play a full-sized piano. It has to do with space, portability, price, and how often you want to be bothered with the transpose buttons.

the smaller size has helped me find my bearings much more easier since it is only two octaves, halved down the middle.

otherwise, at twice the size, 49 keys, compartmentalising off separate octaves would be harder.

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Originally posted by rubez the smaller size has helped me find my bearings much more easier since it is only two octaves, halved down the middle. otherwise, at twice the size, 49 keys, compartmentalising off separate octaves would be harder.

Harder? This isn't rocket science, dude. Knowing where notes are is the most minimal barrier to entry for any instrument, and if you can't get past that, it's past time to consider a different hobby. It's a repeating series of the same 12 notes FFS.

This is all I could fit in my space. Just as well given how shit I am at playing.

Rubez must be a shill account taking the piss, I like your style.

no one said it was rocket science. that's a retarded statement.

if you have never done something before, then it is going to take a certain while until you get accustomed to it.

there's a reason why people start learning to drive in smaller cars as opposed to bigger, more powerful ones even though they do the same thing.

I've been thinking of getting a 25 key MIDI controller, because I have very little desk space and the Axiom Pro 49 I have takes up a lot of space

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Originally posted by rubez no one said it was rocket science. that's a retarded statement.

Yeah, well, sometimes even geniuses need the most basic things pointed out to them.

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Originally posted by rubez if you have never done something before, then it is going to take a certain while until you get accustomed to it.

Yeah, like counting past 25, or recognizing a recurring 12-note pattern. That's some advanced shit there.

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Originally posted by rubez there's a reason why people start learning to drive in smaller cars as opposed to bigger, more powerful ones even though they do the same thing.

Yup, learning to navigate anything more than 25 keys requires the same motor skills as operating a motor vehicle. And, since driver's education can take years for a guy like you, there's no telling how much longer learning to count past 25 might take you.

You've convinced me. A 25-key controller is probably more than you can handle. I mean, pattern recognition, that's some pretty heavy preschool shit right there, dude. Now, my son learned all the octaves on a full-sized piano during his first lesson in kindergarten a few years ago and no brain cells were run over by any student drivers in the process, but he was probably lucky...well, and obviously more gifted than you. So, stick with that 25-key beginner controller and be sure to wear your helmet and seat belt whenever you attempt to operate it. God speed, my friend.

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Originally posted by djshire I've been thinking of getting a 25 key MIDI controller, because I have very little desk space and the Axiom Pro 49 I have takes up a lot of space

I done exactly that for the same reason and got a korg micro 25 key. An extra octave would be handy at times but it does what I need it to do. I never used the pots or pads on my other keyboard so I found this 1 ideal and cheap

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Originally posted by cryophonik So, stick with that 25-key beginner controller and be sure to wear your helmet and seat belt whenever you attempt to operate it. God speed, my friend.

I visualized that for a sec.

We're not talking about musical skill. We're talking about learning 12 notes - that's basic comprehension, not skill. That doesn't require much more than staring at your keyboard for a few minutes. But, look, if my comments really hurt your feelings that badly, then I apologize to you and the OP. Maybe one of you could start a thread on how to figure out where the octaves are on a keyboard. Maybe even ask how to plug in the USB cable, too. I mean, that's about the level of skill we're talking here. To advise someone to limit themselves to 25 keys because they're too fucking stupid or lazy to figure out what everybody figures out in a matter of minutes is irresponsible. Would you really recommend that somebody learn guitar by removing 5 of the strings?

As I said, buying a small keyboard is fine for portability, size, cost, etc., but to buy it because you and OP refuse to put forth a few minutes of effort is just idiotic. Besides, the OP is probably just trolling (psst...so was I, but I'm glad you came to his rescue).

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Originally posted by Zak McKracken its like telling a guy without legs that its easy to run, just lift your legs and run. well i dont have legs. to bad for you, even my kid has legs and can run at the age of 6 - you are 20 and still cant run? god speed.

Really? You're comparing a physical handicap to someone's stubborn refusal to put forth a little effort?

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Originally posted by Andy28 I done exactly that for the same reason and got a korg micro 25 key. An extra octave would be handy at times but it does what I need it to do. I never used the pots or pads on my other keyboard so I found this 1 ideal and cheap

Yea, I never really used the other controls on the Pro 49, even though I tried to remember to use them. I was thinking of getting the Nektar Impact 25 to have full-sized piano-style keys.

It's all about work flow... If u can play then great, it's easy for you to jam and quickly create and get things down.. If like me however you're useless then chances are a mouse and piano roll are your best friends.. Takes a bit longer but does the job..

I must admit if I had space I would go bigger, but for the time being am reasonably happy with the korg.. My only issue is that when I do try and play, my sausage fingers hit two notes together sometimes

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Originally posted by Andy28 ...a mouse and piano roll are your best friends.. Takes a bit longer but does the job..

Yup, and when's the last time you saw a beginner's DAW that only has 2 octaves in the piano roll? I mean, if the OP can't figure out more than 25 keys on the physical keyboard sitting right in front of him, how can figure out a piano roll?

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Originally posted by Zak McKracken bro i played the piano since age of 5. i know all that shit. i just understand that not everybody takes it as easy as others. I have friends who cant udnerstand that C2 and C3 is the same only one octave. they cant hear it. they hear two different sounds completely unrelated. if you dont have the ear for it the theory behind is 100 times more complex. dividing a octave in 12 doesnt make sence logically. C G sounds good together? why? you have to go into logarhitmic math to understand why. either you have it or you dont. its not something you learn. for a lot of people if just noise. I have friends who rather have sports news in the background during drinking than music.

All of which is irrelevant. This isn't music theory. If you've ever looked at a piano, you would see that there is a recurring 12-note pattern of octaves. You don't need to know any theory, or math (beyond counting to 12) or be able to hear or sing an octave to be able to comprehend it or even play it. All you need to do is press the keys and let the keyboard do the rest. Conceptually, that's no different than clicking the notes into a piano roll, except for the fact that the piano roll will have many more keys than most controllers offer. If that's too much effort for you, then you're spending your money on the wrong pastime. Navigating a DAW or making anything resembling music isn't going to happen.

But, go ahead and keep making excuses for people. If the OP wants excuses to not learn the most fundamental things, like notes on a piano, then that's one less crappy artist on Beatport.

You don't need to hear octaves to be able to see them on a keyboard. That's the OP's whole issue - he can't even comprehend looking at more than two octaves and that's his excuse for wanting a 25-key controller. Forget hearing octaves, or melodies, or chords, or any music theory, he's never even going to get there if he can't even put in enough effort to figure out where the notes are. But, again, keep making excuses for him. Some people make music, other people make excuses.

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Originally posted by Zak McKracken im just saying you come off as rather ignorant expecting everyone to have the same musical understanding as you. you pull up you kid as a child prodigy but it is actually very common that kids of musical parents are musical themselfs at early age,

Where did I make him out to be prodigy? I said that it took him one lesson to learn where the octaves are. That's not being a prodigy. That's going to a lesson and letting the instructor teach him the most fundamental thing about playing an instrument. If that makes him a prodigy, then there are a shit-ton of prodigies on this planet. How many years did it take you to figure out the notes on a piano?

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Originally posted by cryophonik How many years did it take you to figure out the notes on a piano?

Quit bitching and review my remix I did for you

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Originally posted by Andy28 Quit bitching and review my remix I did for you

No!



I will when my wife/kid get out of bed and I can listen on my monitors.

Well wake them up and then you can show your child prodigy how not to make music

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Originally posted by Zak McKracken musical talent cant be tought,

I was a bass instructor and piano tutor for many years and, yes, it can definitely be taught. Not everybody picks it up at the same rate, and that has to do with many factors, but most often it comes down to the time and effort that a person is willing to put into it. I've never been one to be satisfied with people (including myself) who don't put forth enough effort, and my students both loved me and hated me for it. But, you'll never hear me making excuses for people or coddling them because they think it's just impossible for them to learn music. Every student I've ever had who thought that they were not musically inclined proved themselves wrong.

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Originally posted by Andy28 Well wake them up and then you can show your child prodigy how not to make music

Trust me, he's already a prodigy in not making music. The kid lives for Minecraft, and trying to tear him away from it to practice some scales or do his homework is like pulling teeth.

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