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US VS. Saddam

Whats your stance on US Vs. Saddam? , and why... do you think US is wrong with their want to attack the regime? do you think UN is being blind.. or do you think there is not enough evidence? please provide information sources... thankyou

I'm actually neutral on an Iraq invasion, but I do think the western world should stick together against Arabian hate & terror.

In the end I would have to have the military intelligence that the President and U.S. congress have to form a real opinion.

I think the time in which the Bush Administration started pushing for this is really odd, unless theres some big discovery that we don't know about. However I'm pretty sure we all "know" Iraq has weapons of mass distruction, and I'm all for a U.N resolution, as long as its worded in such a way, that Bush can't find a loophole, to get Saddam just because his dad didn't.

I'm opposed to it on the grounds that I think the costs outweigh the potential benefits. Besides, if we remove Saddam from power, he'll just end up being replaced by a fundamentalist regime. At least his government is relatively secular.

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Originally posted by Arbiter I'm opposed to it on the grounds that I think the costs outweigh the potential benefits. Besides, if we remove Saddam from power, he'll just end up being replaced by a fundamentalist regime. At least his government is relatively secular.

true, true . i heard about saddam wanting the koran written in blood, but blood to the islamic faith is unclean and should be washed off, on the discovery channel (dont hurt me if im wrong)

but anyway, to me, i think that saddam should be removed, but i dont like bushs go it alone attitude, because thatll be representative of how "selfish" (for lack of a better term) the US is. what annoys me is that bush has a politcal tone towards all of this :-/

I would have to say both are wrong to a certain extent

UN-Too quick to appease. The typical argument is that they are wusses, but I have a feeling its because, being a multinational coalition, they are wary of one of their members dominating all of its affairs.


US-While little George is indeed looking out for the US (and other nation's to a certain extent) interest there still is the revenge factor involved (Saddam tried to have his dad killed), the "we're going to do it right now" factor and of course, the fact that Iraq is the second largest oil reserve behind Saudi Arabia. Who wouldn't want to have that?

My opinion-There should be a hard UN resolution demanding unfettered UN inspections AND military consequences if there is no compliance, there should be some way to ensure that force is not resorted to too quickly. Frankly, if Russia, China and France don't back it, I feel the US, Great Britian and Israel should be free to act, but there should be no bitterness with those nations who do not agree with the US led coalition. After all, they are the ones directly antagonizing the world, Iraq is.

No blood for oil!

quote:

Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior No blood for oil!

oh please...have you thought about moving to Iraq lately?

quote:

Originally posted by Verona^My Arabian hate & terror.

carefully choose your words there. Just because it happens that those terrorist and the countries involved are populated by mainly Arab people does not mean, like you made it look like above, that all Arabs involved in hate and terror against the USA.

>JM<

The U.S. should have taken care of Sadam many years ago... instead they waited. Now... Sadam is only a small part of this global mess... North Korea admits that they "are" working on nuclear bombs... hmmm, is this a ploy??? Makes you think...

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Originally posted by IronDragon My opinion-There should be a hard UN resolution demanding unfettered UN inspections AND military consequences if there is no compliance, there should be some way to ensure that force is not resorted to too quickly. Frankly, if Russia, China and France don't back it, I feel the US, Great Britian and Israel should be free to act, but there should be no bitterness with those nations who do not agree with the US led coalition. After all, they are the ones directly antagonizing the world, Iraq is.

exactly where i stand, well said!

quote:

Originally posted by Tranzlucent The U.S. should have taken care of Sadam many years ago...

agian this is where i see the UN as the blame for the problem, it was the UN that cried out overkill (especially after the "highway of death incident") and said that the the objectives were completed after kuwait was arradicated. i think it should have continued beyond that to make sure this wouldnt happen agian. whats the difference between america continuing without UN support then and now? some sort of punishment or at least a resolution should be made for how iraq has flagrantly dis-obayed UN command since 92.

dangit, no editing feature...
i meant to say liberated not arradicated, how stupid of me and big difference so worth clearing up

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Originally posted by Juricimo :rolleyes oh please...have yuu thought about moving to Iraq lately? >JM<

Is your ass going to be fighting in Iraq if there's a war?

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Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior Is your ass going to be fighting in Iraq if there's a war?

i have 2 friends that are in the USA military that are going to Iraq, they are both wanting to get rid of saddam. Another one of my friends is in the process of joining the Navy Seals. if i'm drafted yes, i will go to war. othewise it is not in my immediate plans for the future.

are you, PeacefulWarrior, going to be fighting in Iraq?

>JM<

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Originally posted by Juricimo :rolleyes oh please...have yuu thought about moving to Iraq lately?

So you're saying being against the war inherently makes the person an unwitting puppet of Iraq? Now I have to :rolleyes back at ya...

quote:

carefully choose your words there. Just because it happens that those terrorist and the countries involved are populated by mainly Arab people does not mean, like you made it look like above, that all Arabs involved in hate and terror against the USA. >JM<

Thank you for this though, there seem to be a few too many people in the States who've adopted the it's us against them mentality toward the Muslims...which is a little too much like the attitude held during the Crusades (and would/will likely be viewed in the same light by future historians if we proceed) for my tastes.

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Originally posted by CortexBomb Thank you for this though, there seem to be a few too many people in the States who've adopted the it's us against them mentality toward the Muslims...which is a little too much like the attitude held during the Crusades (and would/will likely be viewed in the same light by future historians if we proceed) for my tastes.

A lot of people critique the US with broad generalizations that most people have adopted a stereotypical anti-Muslim policy as a result of a rise in recent terror attacks. That may be the case ... however, I would say that there is a much greater stereotypical anti-American mentality among the Arab populace than what we see in the US. Don't you think that it's just a little bit ridiculous that a large portion of the Arab populace attribute blame the Sept. 11 attacks as being an Israeli or an American plot? Yes this represents only one extreme viewpoint but I think that a significant majority of the Arab world is very sympathetic towards anti-American policy. Yet I hear very little debate about Arab bias, racism, and steorotypes.

Re: US VS. Saddam

quote:

Originally posted by inatrance Whats your stance on US Vs. Saddam? , and why... do you think US is wrong with their want to attack the regime? do you think UN is being blind.. or do you think there is not enough evidence? please provide information sources... thankyou

put your view in words carl, so i can read it, i wont reply

im constantly depressed about this issue... it opitomizes the fucked up insanity that we have in our global community... making decisions that change so many lives... its so frustraiting to not know what the fuck to do about this kind of shit... global domination = global confusion

quote:

Originally posted by Juricimo i have 2 friends that are in the USA military that are going to Iraq, they are both wanting to get rid of saddam. Another one of my friends is in the process of joining the Navy Seals. if i'm drafted yes, i will go to war. othewise it is not in my immediate plans for the future. are you, PeacefulWarrior, going to be fighting in Iraq? >JM<

No, I have no intention of fighting the war in Iraq. I just wanted to point out how easy it is to make decisions for other people when your not directly involved in the outcome.

How old is Saddam anyway??

He is going to die of natural causes anyway so just wait..thers no need to attack...

The feeling I get with all this is that Bush and his bunch of hawks decided to war Iraq months and months ago, all they've been doing since then is trying to convince the world that it's a good idea.

They're going to attack, UN or not.

What riles me about the whole thing is that this was supposed to be a "war on terror!" So 200 Aussies die in a terrorist attack on a holiday resort in Bali, and George Bush says it proves why we should kill Saddam! Like wtf?!

And another thing - Bush & Blair spent weeks talking about fresh evidence they had that Saddam was a threat to the world. Have we seen any of this evidence? No! All we get is the same old worn-out rhetoric about how Saddam is a grave threat to world peace and security.

I'll tell you about a grave threat to world peace: a nuclear-equipped state with a war-mongering leader, carrying out military operations against other nations in defiance of UN resolutions. And yes, I'm talking about America.

Amen to that.

I believe that iraq should be forced to comply with the UN, to get rid of weapons of mass distruction.

However, if this is the case, the ALL nations should be disarmed of these weapons.

North Korea has thrown a tough wrench into george bushs plans now, he can't very well attack iraq, and leave north korea alone when the former has admitted to developing nukes, and saddamn still denies it.

that is, without looking like a hypocrit. He is being backed into a corner by his own logic, leaving him 2 choices, to back out and let the world develop, or to attack whoever he feels and justify it later.

Unfortunately i think it will be the latter.

what makes saddam worse than bush and his father...?

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Originally posted by trancedfarmer what makes saddam worse than bush and his father...?

you must be kidding me! are you really serious?

quote:

What riles me about the whole thing is that this was supposed to be a "war on terror!" So 200 Aussies die in a terrorist attack on a holiday resort in Bali, and George Bush says it proves why we should kill Saddam! Like wtf?!

the bali terror incedent proves we should attack saddam.

* Bali proves that one must not wait to act out agianst terror or things like that can happen.
* Saddam is a terrorist (i can back this up too).
* Bush has declared a war on terror.
this all proves we need to attack saddam, and do it sooner rather then later.

i wanted to get to the North Korea issue johnsmith brought up but i gotta run to class

quote:

Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior No, I have no intention of fighting the war in Iraq. I just wanted to point out how easy it is to make decisions for other people when your not directly involved in the outcome.

You, I and every other human being is very directly affected by saddam and this issue as a whole.

do you think that saddam is going to make weapons of mass destruction and just sit there quietly, watch tv and drink a beer? i'm sure he has plans of utilizing these weapons, one time or another. hence, the more reason for those who volunteered to serve this country to go fight against it's threats and acts of terror that pose immediate threats not only to USA and its citizens, but also the citizens of the world.

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy * Saddam is a terrorist (i can back this up too).

You could define terrorist in such a way as to include Saddam, but what makes you think removing him from power will solve anything? Do you honestly believe that Iraq will become a stable region once he is removed from power? Even if we tried to establish some kind of interim government in his place, it seems most probable that it would eventually be replaced with a fundamentalist government which would just end up supporting terrorism anyway.

Replacing a secular terrorist with a fundamentalist terrorist at significant cost does not seem to be productive. You have to pick your battles - it would be nice if we could just go after everyone who we thought was a terrorist, but in many cases the costs outweigh the benefits. I would suggest that this is one of those cases, and that the resources we would spend attacking Iraq would more prudently be allocated to fighting terrorism elsewhere and fighting the underlying causes of terrorism that cannot be removed by brute force.

the iraqi government claims that over 2 million people have lost their lives due to the brutal supreesion that the U.N. and U.S. especially have placed upon their country.. they have many exmples and proof of their claim, and the proof can be found in the media aswell.. last year beginning in march i started watching the actions of the U.S. against Iraq, and even from what i gathered from the American media, they killed hundreds of civilians in 2001 from bombings alone.. Their sanctions have also killed many people... probably the most well known disaster was the bombing of an iraqi water resevouir... this was not from last year, it was 4 or 5 years back.. it caused the deaths of i remember like 55,000... yep. They still regularly bomb.. there was one last week. People die. George Bush is a terrorist too. So was clinton. So was Bush Sr. So was Reagan. Carter. Nixon. KENNEDY.. every president down the line... TERRORISTS... What to do with terrorists...

gandhi said, "an eye for an eye making the whole world blind".

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