TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Chill Out Room
-- Vegas turns up nose at superstar DJs
Pages (5): [1] 2 3 4 5 »

Vegas turns up nose at superstar DJs

good news! (or have I been living under a rock?)

http://pagesix.com/2016/03/22/vegas...t-superstar-djs

quote:

Explaining that the new spot will feature a small, private VIP room, where social media is verboten and conversation is encouraged, Christie adds, �The DJ is no longer the most important part of the recipe.�

What a concept.

quote:

Jesse Waits, who had been the force behind Wynn�s EDM mecca XS and now oversees clubs, lounges and restaurants for Alon, says, �We created a monster.� He�s referring to clubs that got loaded with EDM fanatics and eschewed a picky door. �People who just want to see DJs don�t dress up, they don�t have style, they don�t even want to be in a nightclub � they want to see a concert,� he says. �They�re not cool. Nightclubs are cool-people clubs.� At Alon, he adds, �I�ll be creating a club for the cool people.�

Well, he certainly sounds like a cool guy! I bet he has great style.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews Well, he certainly sounds like a cool guy! I bet he has great style.

And a solid gold Rolex.

Vegas and cool people doesn't match I think. Right or wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Vegas and cool people doesn't match I think. Right or wrong?

Right but sometimes wrong

They're just adjusting to the fact that big Dj's and EDM are old hat now - the DJ's they were booking were just playing commercial tripe to the uneducated bandwagoners and now it's moved on.

The days of SHM, EC Twins, Guetta et al, and thankfully over and this is just Vegas trying to adjust. Deep house and techno are cool now, not lowest common denominator, fist pump, jesus pose EDM. It's alos far better for the promoters business model, not having to pay six figures a night for a dj.

If anything, I think it's good for the scene and music as a whole. Vegas actually has the potential to become a legit clubbing scene for good djs' - they have all the facilities, nice clubs and the money to make it work. It's just down to getting it right, which they probably won't do, although I will say I've had great nights on EDC weekend in the smaller clubs like Drais and Lavo with the good DJ's from EDC (Carl Cox, Sven, etc).

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Vegas and cool people doesn't match I think. Right or wrong?

Wrong but sometimes right.

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken what drugs would fit a VIP room with "conversation" as the entertainment? mescaline i guess?

cocaine.

I eschew the word verboten especially when I'm around cool people with style.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow I eschew the word verboten especially when I'm around cool people with style.

One of the only words I've come across that I don't recall ever coming across before.

I did find this, though: http://www.verbotennewyork.com/

Ah yes, Vegas, the Mecca of electronica.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred One of the only words I've come across that I don't recall ever coming across before. I did find this, though: http://www.verbotennewyork.com/

I'll just leave this here...pretty sad.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...s=#.VvvesvkrLcs

Pvd showed us he was a head of the game.

Incidentally, Avicii just announced he'll quit touring.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Incidentally, Avicii just announced he'll quit touring.

Volvo will be happy too, waste of their money anyways IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Incidentally, Avicii just announced he'll quit touring.

Lol, it's just the same thing as the douchebag Vegas promoters announcing they're not booking his ilk anymore - it's dried up so time to get out.

The people who will really benefit from this are the DJ's that didn't sell out and kept plugging away in the underground.

I know for a fact the shm guys were (and still are) distraught at the reality of them never being taken seriously again in terms of music due to them selling out.

Ya but their shoes...

Your sellout take is silly. Superstar DJs get paid more because they can draw more people and those people are willing to pay more. It's not based on their artistic merit. The promoters/venues are willing to pay extra as long as the dj fulfill their end of the bargain. There isn't any shame in getting paid as much as the market willing to bear. Music is like fashion it comes and goes of its own accord.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow Your sellout take is silly. Superstar DJs get paid more because they can draw more people and those people are willing to pay more. It's not based on their artistic merit. The promoters/venues are willing to pay extra as long as the dj fulfill their end of the bargain. There isn't any shame in getting paid as much as the market willing to bear. Music is like fashion it comes and goes of its own accord.

bollocks. That period (and it's been an incredibly short and over exaggerated) of DJ's getting paid the most was mainly in Vegas in terms of clubs. The dj cost was loss leading in itself - they didn't recoup what they paid out on those nights, but they did it for prestige; book one or two superstar DJ's a week and make a loss, while making bank as the place to be on the other 5 or 6 other nights of the week. They also generated money by the punters eating, gambling and staying in the hotel or the club, so as an overall it would profitable but it wasn't the DJ themselves.

Take marquee for example, one of the largest capacity clubs at 5000 at max. They've paid as much as $1.5m for DJ talent on a given weekend. That means, just to cover that one single expenditure, every patron with out fail has to part with $280 each. Again, that just covers DJ fees - that does not include inventory of alcohol, staff, security, lighting, sound, etc etc etc. That probably makes the needed spend well between $300-$400 for every single person at max capacity.

Sure you get the odd russian or arab dropping $50K-$100k a night but that doesn't even come close to closing the gap.

The insane DJ fees were worth paying as a loss leader it when the scene was packed and buzzing because it made the incidental spends well worth it (not to mention buried the competition), but when the scene started to drop off those loss making fees can't be justified, and that's why Vegas is "going underground" and Avicii is not touring anymore.

Festivals are a different beast because of the much higher attendance numbers and much higher price of entry, but those don't have anything to do with this thread.

Dj's sell out because they can. You realize that Guetta was Dj'ing for 20 years before he made a conscious decision to take advantage of a scene that was ripe. Same like Tiesto - you really think he loved EDM so much it made him abandon the race sound he was so famous for? Same with SHM.

You sell out, you make money but don't expect to be able to make it back to credibility any time soon.

How do I know this shit? One of my mates works for Three Six Zero Group and I've spent 15 years in the entertainment industry. You see the same marketing bullshit/spin again and again.

To be fair, for a long, long time, even prior to selling out to EDM - Guetta, Tiesto and SHM went about as pop as dance music could get (at the time). In that sense they didn't really sell out, they just updated their sound to whats popular.

quote:

Originally posted by Woony To be fair, for a long, long time, even prior to selling out to EDM - Guetta, Tiesto and SHM went about as pop as dance music could get (at the time). In that sense they didn't really sell out, they just updated their sound to whats popular.

SHM were cheesey from the outset as a group, but some of the DJ's (angello) was actually a serious and decent producer. Don't forget SHM started out a loose collective of Dj's who happened to be Swedish, and then when the opportunity came that branded it to three guys and let the fromage flow. I'd never say they were underground as individuals, but there was clearly a marked change to cash in.

Guetta - sure, he was always mainstream then went in to full on cash.

But Tiesto - don't agree. I remember seeing him several times in 90's and he was playing pumping trance and was respected as far as that went. His productions were far from "pop" most people outide of dance music didn't know who the fuck he was. He never had a US billboard top 10 until late 2000 by which point the scene in Europe was already in sharp decline. It's a misnomer to say he was pop - he became it and sold out harder than anyone from the 90's scene but then again, he can laugh himself all the way to the bank.

Wasn't pumping euro trance the most popular dance music of the late 90s though? It's not like he got famous (although he might have at some point, given the sample in Traffic) for playing fucking detroit techno, he played shit that made it to the top of the mainstream charts on several occasions. At least in germany almost everyone outside the trance scene considered these guys horrible sellouts that betrayed the original spirit of techno/rave.

Regardless, he played the fucking Olympics in 2004, if that's not selling out then I don't know what is. And that was years before the rise of EDM.

When the scene started out at raves in abandon warehouses and transitioned to clubs and then giant venues the same cry of selling out was also made.

All things go through a stage of obscurity to popularity and then are discarded for the next thing.

Who cares what business model of LV clubs or how much high profile djs makes. Listen what you like and everything else will sort itself out. If you've ever done anything artistic you'd know it's impossible reproduce anything special year after year.

This whole thing goes back to people using music as means show how special they are to others. If you're ever hung out with someone like this you'll know how annoying they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow All things go through a stage of obscurity to popularity and then are discarded for the next thing.

You're talking bullshit, as ever, IGK. There are countless DJs, musicians and people of all creative paths who've managed to maintain what originally made them great for decades without going to shit. Their style might change with the times, but that doesn't automatically equate to becoming more calculatingly accessible.

There's nothing more annoying than a DJ or producer or anyone who's creative output you used to revere and rely upon blatantly selling themselves down the river and descending into shit. Some people just lose their touch and that's understandable because everyone is human, but when someone capable of greatness willingly waters themselves down to make more cash (when they weren't exactly broke to begin with) you have lost a source of musical joy for no better reason than greed.

Granted, none of the DJs being discussed in this thread were any good to begin with and nor were they well-respected, but that's Woony's argument and nothing to do with yours.

quote:

Originally posted by Woony Wasn't pumping euro trance the most popular dance music of the late 90s though? It's not like he got famous (although he might have at some point, given the sample in Traffic) for playing fucking detroit techno, he played shit that made it to the top of the mainstream charts on several occasions. At least in germany almost everyone outside the trance scene considered these guys horrible sellouts that betrayed the original spirit of techno/rave. Regardless, he played the fucking Olympics in 2004, if that's not selling out then I don't know what is. And that was years before the rise of EDM.

So, unless you play detroit techno, you're a sell out?

I'm certainly no Tiesto defender, I probably saw him twice in the 90's and one of those was from stumbling in to the wrong tent, so it's not like I was a fan, but at at least in the part of his career where he made his name (maybe 94 to 99?), he wasn't playing top40 commercial crap - he was playing tracks that you'd be likely to hear from other respected DJ's in that genre (such as sasha, oakenfold, westbam, Way out west, etc) and nothing about it was mainstream in the true sense. You didn't hear pumping trance on radio except late night or the essential selection.

People now hear "Tiesto" it rightly is accompanied with a cringe but there was certainly a point when he was respected for his genre and playing decent music.

As I said before, in the early to mid 2000's he made a definite conscious decision to cash in, hired ghost producers, and moved away from the sound that made him for commercial reasons and started churning out that chart friendly stuff that you allude to. It's one of the best examples in dance music of a simple sell out. The EDM thing is just an extension of him selling out.

Same like SHM in their original form. It was a bunch of DJ's playing house and tech house. Not really underground as such but you can see the point when the three big guys in that collective suddenly went "shit, there's a fortune to be made here" and started making tracks like Don't you Worry child. It was a long way from the comparatively minimal and thoughtfully produced tracks that Steve Angello for instance had been putting out his entire career up to this point.

quote:

Originally posted by Sys-J You're talking bullshit, as ever, IGK. There are countless DJs, musicians and people of all creative paths who've managed to maintain what originally made them great for decades without going to shit. Their style might change with the times, but that doesn't automatically equate to becoming more calculatingly accessible. There's nothing more annoying than a DJ or producer or anyone who's creative output you used to revere and rely upon blatantly selling themselves down the river and descending into shit. Some people just lose their touch and that's understandable because everyone is human, but when someone capable of greatness willingly waters themselves down to make more cash (when they weren't exactly broke to begin with) you have lost a source of musical joy for no better reason than greed. Granted, none of the DJs being discussed in this thread were any good to begin with and nor were they well-respected, but that's Woony's argument and nothing to do with yours.

Agree with this apart from the respected part; You weren't clubbing or buying dance music then so it's somewhat impossible to know, but Tiesto, his later sellout notwithstanding, was as respected at one point as any other big name in the dance music. It's all fine to diss him now due to what he's become but there certainly was a period (and not a short one) that was a good DJ, playing good tracks and was playing alongside other revered names, and that was the reason he became such a big draw in the late 90's, and well before Ferry or Armin could make a real mark. Even if someone is not a fan of that music, there was a difference between 90's trance and the commercial shite that followed, again purely borne of financial opportunity.

The DJ's in this thread aren't anyone to pedestal, but the thread is about vegas sell outs and the examples are on point, so it's a little bit irrelevant to compared detroit techno to top 40 edm remixes.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.