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Multitracking without using a DAW

I want to multitrack without using the computer. I'm guessing I'd need somehing like an 8-track recorder?

Any recommendations or tips? What I'd like is something like an 8-track digital recorder with 8 inputs, Aux send/receive, and USB connection, if such a thing exists. The Korg D888 would be perfect, but it doesn't have Aux, so you can't implement an external FX unit with it.

Is there anything like the Korg D888, but with Aux? I'd really like to multitrack without using a DAW or computer, if possible, because I don't want to record in stems. I'm sure there must be a way...

I gotta ask.....why?

This is one area where DAW is supreme.

If you want the hands on, perhaps a multi channel USB/Firewire mixer like the Mackie Onyx 1640i would work?

There are tons of olskool digital multi track recorders that you could par up with a 'normal' mixing desk too. You'll just need a desk with direct outs.

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Originally posted by tehlord I gotta ask.....why?

I want to keep doing everything live, out of the box, rather than recording in stems. That, and I also don't want to start learning how to use a DAW, if I can continue to produce without it.

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There are tons of olskool digital multi track recorders that you could par up with a 'normal' mixing desk too. You'll just need a desk with direct outs.

Just spoke to Mike Dred on facebook, and he tells me there are some 90s ADAT machines, which are pretty cheap nowadays. The only thing is - I'm using a Mackie vlz-12 now, which I don't think has outs - only ins. So again, basically the Korg D888 seems perfect, but the only problem is that it lacks AUX.

Any tips on a similar machine that also includes AUX, so I can continue to use my digital FX unit while multitracking?

Right ok. I'm not sure what you mean by stems, but whether you multitrack with DAW or hardware you're still going to be dealing with individual audio files.

I would avoid ADATs. They use old super VHS video cassettes to record on and I can foresee all sorts of reliabilty/maintenance issues. Saying that it was superseded by the ADAT hard drive recorders, but they're still very obsolete.

The digital portastudio are (to the best of my knowledge) very basic in terms of features as they're aimed at people recording bands in their garage. The mixing functionality is often basic as the individual files would generally be transferred to computer these days anyway.

I do feel it's probably best to look at the mixer functionality and multi track recording as separate issues. That'll give you the most flexibility for sure.

Still not sure what you'd do about digital multi track recording. It's not something I want to ever revisit

I had a Korg D3200 ten years ago or so and, from memory, I think it met your needs, and then some. You might want to look into that. I'm guessing that they're probably pretty cheap by now.

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Originally posted by tehlord I'm not sure what you mean by stems, but whether you multitrack with DAW or hardware you're still going to be dealing with individual audio files.

How so? If I'm using hardware to multitrack, wouldn't it just be one file but with different tracks? I just want to be able to continue doing what I'm doing now - everything live - but rather than recording into two stereo tracks into my Tascam DP-004, as I do now, I'd like to multitrack. I guess I'll have to look around and see if I can find something simlilar to the Korg I posted, but with AUX.

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Originally posted by cryophonik I had a Korg D3200 ten years ago or so and, from memory, I think it met your needs, and then some. You might want to look into that. I'm guessing that they're probably pretty cheap by now.

Looks really nice, but a bit pricey for me right now. I also only need up to 16 tracks, rather than 32. The Korg D888 would be perfect, if only it had a pair of AUX outputs.

If you guys know any other machines that may suit me, please feel free to suggest.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Looks really nice, but a bit pricey for me right now.

I checked my local craigslist and there's one here with a case/cables for $350. What's your budget?

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Originally posted by cryophonik I checked my local craigslist and there's one here with a case/cables for $350. What's your budget?

That's pretty much my budget. Would you consider picking it up and shipping it to me? I'll pay all costs, of course and whatever you decide to charge me for your time and effort.

I read that it has AUX send/receive, unlike the Korg D888, right? I'd be able to use my external FX unit with it, I assume.

EDIT: doesn't look like it has an EQ for each channel, like the D888, right? Seems like it's only accessible via the menu, which is rather unfortunate.

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Originally posted by tehlord I do feel it's probably best to look at the mixer functionality and multi track recording as separate issues. That'll give you the most flexibility for sure.

Yeah, I've been talking to someone and they also suggested that maybe I use a mixer with direct outs - this way maybe I can get a cheap multitrack recorder and just have the outs of my mixer go directy into the tracks. I'm assuming all AUX fx, eq, etc. will cut through as well...?

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred How so? If I'm using hardware to multitrack, wouldn't it just be one file but with different tracks? I just want to be able to continue doing what I'm doing now - everything live - but rather than recording into two stereo tracks into my Tascam DP-004, as I do now, I'd like to multitrack. I guess I'll have to look around and see if I can find something simlilar to the Korg I posted, but with AUX. Looks really nice, but a bit pricey for me right now. I also only need up to 16 tracks, rather than 32. The Korg D888 would be perfect, if only it had a pair of AUX outputs. If you guys know any other machines that may suit me, please feel free to suggest.

I did that with my old hardware. However my Korg/Yamaha/Roland gear all had onboard sequencers. Then just recorded straight into my 4 track.
I gotta tell ya man...that was 5 years ago. That was when I dropped all my gear for Ableton and a midi controller. I gotta tell ya, I wasn't thrilled in the beginning and fought it. I'm glad I didn't resist long because the amount of change for the better is incomparable. I highly suggest a re evaluation.
Don't get me wrong...I know why you are probably doing what you are,at the same time, I also think you are holding yourself back with not having a DAW. Work flow especially. Just a few cents

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Originally posted by SystematicX1 I did that with my old hardware. However my Korg/Yamaha/Roland gear all had onboard sequencers. Then just recorded straight into my 4 track.

Yeah, that's what I've always been doing, but why should I use a DAW if I can just record into, say, an 8 or 16-track recorder? Unless you're suggesting I start writing in stems? I'd really rather do everything live, honestly.

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Originally posted by SystematicX1 ...I also think you are holding yourself back with not having a DAW. Work flow especially. Just a few cents

Thanks for the tip, but how would I be holding myself back, exactly?

I totally get the notion of staying OTB as well, but sometimes the modern tech is the winning tech.

I certainly wouldn't want to trust my recordings to a 10 year old hard drive either

good point...lol

ok, so can you guys please advise how I'd get started on multitracking into a DAW? i'm thinking it may indeed be the best way to go. I'm using a relatively cheap laptop, so if it's not convenient, I'd rather just maybe buy the Korg D888 and have my mixer outs going into it.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Yeah, that's what I've always been doing, but why should I use a DAW if I can just record into, say, an 8 or 16-track recorder? Unless you're suggesting I start writing in stems? I'd really rather do everything live, honestly. Thanks for the tip, but how would I be holding myself back, exactly?

Ok..this is totally my opinion.

"8 or 16-track recorder" ...Tape?
1: Wear and tear
2: Availability to purchase more...tape
3: Quality is warmer (imo) +1 but still see #1 & #2
4: Quality turns into shit unless you are talking DAT (still see #1)

"but why should I use a DAW" "I'd really rather do everything live"
Everything you want to do, you can do better,faster,more accurate and is more forgiving in a live setting with a DAW.
You are able to physically see the wav form in a 2 dimensional setting that allows you to get pin point accuracy.


"how would I be holding myself back, exactly"
How you work on a track. When I was working on analog I liked to just screw around and go with a flow with whatever I was sequencing. I found myself not being able to get a solid composition down because of the limitations to my hardware although the repetition was spot on for trance (at the time) /grins. Needless to say, those tracks took forever to finish.
Effects were limited to what onboard gear I had,which wasn't much.
Unless you had the bucks to shell out for another piece of hardware
Needless to say (Im speaking solely for) Ableton. The native effects rack has over 200 effects at your disposal. Not all are great but probably alot better than the standard.

I also found alot of times due to the weak polyphony(32)my song would cut out or act weird If my sequences started stacking to much. With a good computer, this will never happen again. So, you mentioned you were on a laptop...hmm, you will need some decent specs

In a nutshell, you can do all this still,live with a DAW. Your tracks will be better, the pace at which you create your tracks will be faster and your ability to manage your music will be better.
But still your laptop.....hmm

Robert Hood still uses a digital Tascam recorder - it's obviously not as flexible/powerful as a DAW but you get hardware and simplicity and none of the issues with DATs/old hardware.

http://tascam.com/products/mtr_digital_portastudio/

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Originally posted by Woony Robert Hood still uses a digital Tascam recorder - it's obviously not as flexible/powerful as a DAW but you get hardware and simplicity and none of the issues with DATs/old hardware. http://tascam.com/products/mtr_digital_portastudio/

Hah! And people here were making fun of me for using a Tascam. I've always been using a DP-004, and was actually thinking last night of saving for one of the higher end ones (e.g. DP-24SD, so I can actually multitrack live).

If I'm actually able to buy something like the DP-24SD, I really don't see the purpose of using a DAW. Unless you guys can convince me otherwise.

I mean, it's hard to argue that DAW is better objectively but in the end making music comes down to what you're feeling the most.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Hah! And people here were making fun of me for using a Tascam. I've always been using a DP-004, and was actually thinking last night of saving for one of the higher end ones (e.g. DP-24SD, so I can actually multitrack live). If I'm actually able to buy something like the DP-24SD, I really don't see the purpose of using a DAW. Unless you guys can convince me otherwise.

Naw man, no one is making fun because alot of people do still use old hardware for vintage sake or novelty of sound. Nothing wrong at all with that.
As Woony did state however, flexible/powerful vs "the issues" you are coming here with. Essentially it is your choice

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Originally posted by SystematicX1 Naw man, no one is making fun because alot of people do still use old hardware for vintage sake or novelty of sound. Nothing wrong at all with that.

I agree, I meant RANN was deriding me for it in a previous thread.

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As Woony did state however, flexible/powerful vs "the issues" you are coming here with. Essentially it is your choice

Yeah, I mean honestly, if it's more cost-effective and better overall for me to start using a DAW, I'm definitely going to consider it - I just want some advice given my workstation, modus operandi, etc. If I can get the direct outs of my mixer into a hardware (digital) multitrack recorder, then it might be better and easier, ultimately. Unless I'm still missing something here...

Ok, so this is pretty interesting.

Technically, if I want to use the direct outs of my mixer (I have a Micro Series 1202 VLZ Mackie now, so only 4 direct outs) and go into the 8-track inputs of the Korg D888, then technically my external FX unit going through my Mackie AUX would be routed through, as well, right? And I'm guessing I can apparently do extra EQ-ing on the Korg, as well, and even apply the built-in FX over the FX I already have going through the AUX on my Mackie?



Might try and save for the Tascam DP-24SD instead, as it has more tracks, but it doesn't seem to include EQ and a built-in FX unit, like the Korg. Although maybe I don't need all this...but then again, maybe the Korg would allow for more experimentation, given those additional features.

Meanwhile, I'll also want to save up for a 16-channel mixer.

Maybe you could find a couple old Tascam DA-88 multitrack recorders?

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Originally posted by aquila Maybe you could find a couple old Tascam DA-88 multitrack recorders?

I really would prefer not to record on cassette lol. Using a DAT and having it break on me in the past was a pain in the backside.

Damn...I've just realized that with a DAW, I can record sampled stems, and use them throughout a track. Without a DAW, I don't see myself really pulling that off.

lol you will be amazed at what you can do

i'll check it out, thanks. i really need to stop being lazy and just do it.

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