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Posted by {b.s.e.} on Nov-01-2002 18:55:

conscription?

i was just thinking about vietnam, and how many people fled the country in 'disgrace' because they wouldn't sacrifice themselves to an american paradigm. would you go to war if your country called upon you? i think i would if my national and personal freedom were at stake, but there are too many idealistic wars and campaigns nowadays, the principles smeared with money and hate.

Posted by Blik on Nov-01-2002 19:44:

I would fight for my country when I think it is justified and legit for my country to go to war. But I'll probably get a desk-job anyway because of the study I am doing

otherwise I would go to Belgium or something like that, since they also kinda speak dutch over there

Posted by CortexBomb on Nov-01-2002 20:10:

Re: conscription?

quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.} would you go to war if your country called upon you? i think i would if my national and personal freedom were at stake, but there are too many idealistic wars and campaigns nowadays, the principles smeared with money and hate.

Well, I'm a pacifist in anything but extreme circumstances (i.e. Hitler) so it's unlikely that I'd be willing to go to war for most any modern cause.

I'm a human, a member of planet earth, just like everyone else, and don't define myself by my nationality, and I don't support killing other humans in any way, shape, or form.

Conscription is ridiculous, thankfully, full time students are given deferments so it'd never be an issue for me (never can have too many degrees ) but I still think the notion of forcing your citizens to go out and fight if they don't feel like signing up, is insane.

Morale becomes shite in short order, and your political jails get filled up with people like me who'd rather get arrested, and sit in jail writing about how unjust the war is than ever bow to some barking drill instructor and be forced to kill people that I don't have any qualms with.

If the war is really "just", then it's usually no issue finding a cadre of people willing to go sacrifice their lives for king and country, again, WWII as an easy for instance in the US.

So conscription, in the US at least, has only occured during a long, drawn-out, and very unpopular war, so it's not hard for me to say it's bollocks.

Posted by quddha on Nov-01-2002 20:17:

I think the tragic thing about Vietnam was that many of hte US soldiers died without knowing why the hell they were over there in the first place. My mom (who's Vietnamese and lived in Vietnam until the mid 70's) when watching US movies about the war, always says she feels so sorry for those young American men who were given 2 weeks of training, and thrown into the jungle. They had no chance, and they died so needlessly.

It just makes their death that more horrible, being forced into the line of fire, not knowing why they're there, and with inadequete training.

Posted by Arbiter on Nov-01-2002 20:21:

Re: Re: conscription?

quote:
Originally posted by CortexBomb
Well, I'm a pacifist in anything but extreme circumstances (i.e. Hitler) so it's unlikely that I'd be willing to go to war for most any modern cause.

I'm a human, a member of planet earth, just like everyone else, and don't define myself by my nationality, and I don't support killing other humans in any way, shape, or form.

Conscription is ridiculous, thankfully, full time students are given deferments so it'd never be an issue for me (never can have too many degrees ) but I still think the notion of forcing your citizens to go out and fight if they don't feel like signing up, is insane.

Morale becomes shite in short order, and your political jails get filled up with people like me who'd rather get arrested, and sit in jail writing about how unjust the war is than ever bow to some barking drill instructor and be forced to kill people that I don't have any qualms with.

If the war is really "just", then it's usually no issue finding a cadre of people willing to go sacrifice their lives for king and country, again, WWII as an easy for instance in the US.

So conscription, in the US at least, has only occured during a long, drawn-out, and very unpopular war, so it's not hard for me to say it's bollocks.

Great post. Basically, the problem I have with conscription is:
1. It is a form of slavery.
2. Slaves do lousy work.

My country would be unwise to compel me to serve, because I'd just play along and gain increasing amounts of responsibility, then use that responsibility to enact cruel revenge on those who enslaved me.

Posted by biznology on Nov-02-2002 21:03:

Re: Re: conscription?

quote:
Originally posted by CortexBomb
Well, I'm a pacifist in anything but extreme circumstances (i.e. Hitler) so it's unlikely that I'd be willing to go to war for most any modern cause.

...

well hey, would you be able to know a Hitler if you came across him today? it was only in the past 25 yrs that all his horrors truly became evident across the globe...

i agree with you tho. for the longest time i was always convinced i would never want to be thrown into war. the first time i ever even considered the idea truthfully was after 9-11. that first week after that, i actually told myself i would go if called upon. surely, with the ensuing wars and political domineering i dont exactly feel the same way. i was more afraid of the bomb tho, and i guess that was my mentality. alt there wouldnt be nukes without war i guess| hmm

Posted by DJ Mikey Mike on Nov-02-2002 21:44:

Re: Re: conscription?

Posted by CortexBomb on Nov-03-2002 04:39:

Re: Re: Re: conscription?

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
and as put by my good friend Homer Simpson: A coward

Hey man, if that's your opinion, that's your opinion but I'd personally rather be living in a world full of pacifists than a world full of trigger happy would-be Rambos...pacifism is an ideal that I believe in that I can apply in my day to day life.

Being anything else would be contrary to my beliefs, so if that makes me a coward in the eyes of some, so be it. I'm not being a pacifist to impress people after all.

Posted by Osiris on Nov-03-2002 21:58:

The fact is that no matter who or what the war is about there will be some who agree and some who disagree. There are many from the last WW who say that youngsters today wouldn't be as willing to fight as they were then and that the country during WW2 was entirely united. This is VERY wrong. The UK was divided during the 2nd World war and the US was divided during both the Vietnam war and WW2. Its all dependant on wether the people of the country see there own personal freedom at stake. And even then some may be reluctant to go to war. The US has shown reluctance in the past not because its "soft" but because a lot of the wars its been involved with are nothing to do with them. Vietnam was merely a war against communism. The war against communism is of questionable moral standing. The Americans stayed out of WW2 even though its allies(UK) were being attackjed., It was only when Japan attacked that the US decided to get involved.

Posted by IronDragon on Nov-04-2002 03:50:

I would if it's justified.