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Speaker Understanding <- Clever People Post In Here

basically i would like to know what exactly a watt means and what really does effect the loudness and clarity of the music that is coming out. physics got too hard to me in year 10, just a nice explanation please

Re: Speaker Understanding <- Clever People Post In Here

quote:

Originally posted by Project T basically i would like to know what exactly a watt means and what really does effect the loudness and clarity of the music that is coming out. physics got too hard to me in year 10, just a nice explanation please

its basically how much power it uses in all cones. for example a 40 watt bulb wud be brighter than a 20 watt bulb. thus if u use up mroe power in the sound it maybe louder but say if i had 30 watts rms with treble and bass cones, compared to a treble bass and mid with the same wattage the first oen woudl be louder. at least thats what im guessing without actually knowing anything o nthe subject

ok watts are the amount of power gooing to the speakers... decibels which measure loudness is in a logarithmic scale. so it takes twice as much power to make a 2 decibel diffeence [about one incrment of loudness as can be detected by the human ear] and then it takes about 10 times the power to give a 10 db increas which sounds twice as loud.

its more important how sensitive speakers are. mine are 96db/watt/m means one watt input outputs 96 db measured one meter away. i have 10 watt tube amplifiers which means that i get 106db at full power... and so on you can do the math : )

most speakers are like...85[normal] to 90[pretty damn good] my sub gets 119db/watt/m it has a 2000watt internal amp but it takes alot more pressure for low notes since the human ear isnt really sensitive to bass. so there you go...i hopt that answers your question

Well, instead of explaining it myself, I'll direct you to this excellent website that will save me a lot of typing This will explain everything you ever wanted to know about speakers

http://www.howstuffworks.com/speaker1.htm

The section at the end where you can link to what a decible is, will probably help you understand more about what you want to know too. Also you can search for watt!

A Watt is one unit of power
Power = Voltage x Current

When it comes to the speakers sound quality

it depends on two things

I the speaker getting enough power (watts) but not too many Watts. should not exceed max RMS not just the max wattage the max RMS wattage stands for Real Music SOund. the power ur putting to ur speaker should be close but under this value in Watts

The second thing is the quality of the materials in the speaker

The Speaker should have a good poly cone or a aluminum/Titanium injected cone, some even have a full titanium cone, these are very expensive,

You should avoid foam reflex (Thats that stretchy part around the speaker that lets the cone travel baack and forth.

you want it made of rubber not foam.

Also the power (not necessarily the size) of the magnet is a factor.

Finally the metal which surrounds the speaker should be powder coated or made of a material which resonates less than just steel itself.

hope this kinda helps

quote:

Originally posted by SeventhSun the max RMS wattage stands for Real Music SOund

umm, RMS stands for Root Mean Square, not Real Music Sound

Yeah, there are two types of power ratings, RMS is the average power output, and max power, is just that! I would look for speakers with a strong RMS power output. If you are anywhere in your house, 100-200W will do you just fine!

quote:

Originally posted by DjJade so it takes twice as much power to make a 2 decibel diffeence [about one incrment of loudness as can be detected by the human ear] and then it takes about 10 times the power to give a 10 db increas which sounds twice as loud

i thought it was every 3db incriment it sounded twice as loud

quote:

Originally posted by Kid Lax i thought it was every 3db incriment it sounded twice as loud

nope...3db increment is when you put two speakers together with the same volume. (like dj jade said, twice the power for 3dB increase) but contrary to popular belief, two speakers do NOT make the sound twice as loud...you'll need to really pump it to create sound that is twice as loud.

quote:

Originally posted by Kid Lax i thought it was every 3db incriment it sounded twice as loud

no im pretty sure a 3 db incriment takes twice the power... but is not twice as loud. 8-10 db is twice as loud

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Flesch I would look for speakers with a strong RMS power output.

although that may be important, strong rms output means nothing for a crappy... insensitive speaker. you can have a spaeaker rated at 85db sensitivity with a 1000watt amp being as loud as a 95db speaker with a 100watt amp. plus, even though they are going at the same sound pressure level... the less sensitive speaker will not be as clear and accurate since its so hard to drive the speaker...especialy at small levels that define clarity

Remember,

You don't need to know,

"How many watts will a speaker take before it melts?"

You need to know,

"How do I buy a speaker and an amplifier together to get the loudness I need for my applications?"

So you match your amplifier and your speakers together to suit your application. How many watts is only part of the equation... if you have some ultra-sensitive speaker that gets quite loud with 10 watts RMS/channel, than you only need 10 watts RMS/channel...

what i would really like to know is that i have 400rms output speakers that supposedly go up to -96 Db or whatever and that the bass climbs no louder after 3/4 of the volume is reached. and why people with much smaller bass cones than me get much more sound even though my bass cone is about 8" and has rubber edging.

Okay. You have been quite confused.

Why not pull out the specs sheet for these things:

The speakers themselves
What you have DRIVING the speakers

and tell us exactly what all the numbers say? You are misinterpreting the numbers quite badly, so why not simply quote the numbers for us experts?

possible reasons for that:

1) your amplifier is weak or not enough to power you speakers. the amplifier wattage should be almost double your speaker wattage.

2) differet designs of speakers give different sounds. maybe your speaker doesn't even reach down under 40 Hz do give you that rumble and thump that others do.

3) speaker placement makes a difference. a speaker in the corner gives more bass then a speaker in the center of the room. (altho i strongly discourage putting the speaker in the corners unless you have to.)

4) your speakers are old? i really don't know...

there are lotsa possible reasons...

yeah speaker placement and enclosure have alot to do with that... what speaker is it...where is it... does the bass response change as you walk around the room?

quote:

Originally posted by Kid Lax i thought it was every 3db incriment it sounded twice as loud

3db in relation to power is a doubling - ie 100 watts is 3db over 50 watts.

quote:

Originally posted by Project T what i would really like to know is that i have 400rms output speakers that supposedly go up to -96 Db or whatever and that the bass climbs no louder after 3/4 of the volume is reached. and why people with much smaller bass cones than me get much more sound even though my bass cone is about 8" and has rubber edging.

be aware that bass in much better driven by current rather than voltage (IE likes lower impedances) - most amps can only push so much current, but can generally push higher voltages easier than higher currents. so it's easier for them to generate higher frequencies. of course this is all dependant on the imppedance curve of the speakers.

also, you may have simply reached the travel limit of the woofer.

try using a subwoofer to achieve your bass, and use a high pass filter to save your mains the hastle of thumping so much.. and use a high current amp to drive your low impedance subs.

okay, well since no one bothered to follow the link I provided, here is an exert from the pages: click

here to read the whole thing)

"The calculations for the dB relationships I just gave go like this; for a 10 to one relationship, the log of 10 is 1, and ten times 1 is 10. For the 2 to one relationship, the log of 2 is 0.3, and 10 times that is 3. Incidentally, if the ratio goes the other way, with the measured value less than the reference, we get a negative dB value, because the log of 1/10 is -1."

So, yes, a sound twice as loud as another source is 3 dB louder.

no from that calculation that you just put in... its decibels calculated in terms of power. its not twice as loud, it takes twice the power to make it 3 db louder... 3db is the threshold that the human ear can tell a defference in loudness.

notice the equation above your exerpt...
"Power difference in db= 10 log [(powerA)/(PowerB)]"

also from your website
" First of all, the ear is very sensitive. The softest audible sound has a power of about 0.000000000001 watt/sq. meter and the threshold of pain is around 1 watt/sq. meter, giving a total range of 120dB. In the second place, our judgment of relative levels of loudness is somewhat logarithmic. If a sound has 10 times the power of a reference (10dB) we hear it as twice as loud. If we merely double the power (3dB), the difference will be just noticeable."

which is what we all have been saying

agree with DJ Jade's post.

i think it may be easier for everyone if you try NOT to think of power and volume on the same page. power is measured in watts; volume or how our ears hear sound, is measured in SPL (sound pressure level or dB). there is no real direct correlation between watts and dBs.

for the point of buying speakers...you rarely need to worry about dB levels up past 60 or so dB unless you are going professional and are mixing a live show, run a club sound system, and the likes. inside your house you rarely need sound THAT loud. for adequate sound, make sure your amplifiers are strong, that is usually more important.

quote:

Originally posted by tristan_vdv umm, RMS stands for Root Mean Square, not Real Music Sound

RMS in audio world means Rated Manufactures Specification ......

no rms is root mean squared... when you have an amp hooked to a speaker, the amp puts out power in a function with respect to time. it peaks at its max wattage but you take the rms of it and that is the average power that the amp puts out continuously.

so the square of the root mean square is the square of the average (deviation from the average) squared

(rms)^2=<(x-)^2>

DjJade, my statement was that a sound twice as loud as another source is 3 dB louder. I made no such implications to it having twice the power to achieve twice the loudness. I too was stating that people were misperceiving the concept between volume and power.

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