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Friday 84 December Edition

So I finally have something to talk about in one of these threads. Doing my typical 8 hour shift at the office and then it's off to the Bay for a club night. No out of country headliners or any top talent at this thing, mostly local DJ's, but I'm going so I can see a few people I know from parties past, a small reunion of sorts. Gonna be a long day, but should be fun. House and dnb mainly for the music.

Happy to be off and do nothing tonight. Have plans tomorrow, but had the worst block of shifts at work in a long time and need to just chill.

I'm happy, I'm feeling glad, I've lost 8 kilos (17 pounds) of fat and gained 6 kilos (do the maths!) of lean mass in the last 5 months, according to the gym instructor.

Is it a stellar performance? No, not at all. But I wanted to start off slow and steady rather than shoot for the stars and get injured like I did once in my mid-20s... And it's not a bad result either

^
I feel you man. I been going to the gym this year for the past 5 months now, had to take a little break in between the third month, but have hit it hard again for the last two. I've actually gained 6 pounds more but I'm going for strength and size training so things are still heading where I want them too. I also make sure to do some cardio along with the weights and while it hasn't shrunk my stomach that much, I'm pleased that at least some of my neck fat went away. But yeah, still got a ways to go to reach my goals. Now that my body's gotten accustomed to it, don't need to baby myself much anymore.

Nordlead synth nd eating somee cheesebrugers

Juanita. How many alts? Seriously.

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Originally posted by Lira I'm happy, I'm feeling glad, I've lost 8 kilos (17 pounds) of fat and gained 6 kilos (do the maths!) of lean mass in the last 5 months, according to the gym instructor. Is it a stellar performance? No, not at all. But I wanted to start off slow and steady rather than shoot for the stars and get injured like I did once in my mid-20s... And it's not a bad result either

You think 6kg of lean mass in 5 months isn't stellar performance? I'd very much like to see visual evidence of this transformation, mate, because I think your gym instructor is talking quite a lot of bollocks.

As for my Friday, I fell asleep at 9.30pm and woke up this morning almost twelve hours later. One of those occasions where my body has been patiently watching me go about my working week functionally, waiting for my first day off to go, "Now, about that sleep debt..."

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You think 6kg of lean mass in 5 months isn't stellar performance? I'd very much like to see visual evidence of this transformation, mate, because I think your gym instructor is talking quite a lot of bollocks

To be fair, I'd only say "stellar performance" to a transformation that took me from sumo wrestler to Tokyo 2020 world athlete and spent my whole day training like an Olympian

As for me, maybe you're right, but there's a bit of context I left out for brevity's sake. The first is I used to be quite shredded before, so muscle memory may have played a part. Also, I've gone from 10% body fat to 30% in 5 years (2010-2015), courtesy of a Morton's neuroma that stopped me from jogging at first and gallons of Coca-cola refills I drank at steakhouses as I wrote my thesis, which turned me into a rotund ball of lard. Last year, however, I decided to make a change. I've been cycling to work (13 kilometres/day) for a year now and, because I felt progress stalled, I joined a gym in July.

Here's the thing, I'm now supposed to be down to 23% body fat. When I look at myself in the mirror, it shows. I see the muscles from the chest up, but I still have the caloric bumbag to take care of around my waist... So it makes some sense. As for the pictures, I don't really have a before picture to show, so I'm not sure it'll be of any help

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Originally posted by Zharen I been going to the gym this year for the past 5 months now, had to take a little break in between the third month, but have hit it hard again for the last two. I've actually gained 6 pounds more but I'm going for strength and size training so things are still heading where I want them too. I also make sure to do some cardio along with the weights and while it hasn't shrunk my stomach that much, I'm pleased that at least some of my neck fat went away. But yeah, still got a ways to go to reach my goals. Now that my body's gotten accustomed to it, don't need to baby myself much anymore.

Hear, hear! These breaks are always disheartening, but the results (like the neck fat going away), always make the hard work worth it

And, yeah, I've been doing some cardio, and dare I say, bro, I even lift

How is all this being measured?

I'm skeptical as well. To my knowledge 1-2 lbs of lean mass per month is the realistic estimate of what's possible without supplements.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J As for my Friday, I fell asleep at 9.30pm and woke up this morning almost twelve hours later. One of those occasions where my body has been patiently watching me go about my working week functionally, waiting for my first day off to go, "Now, about that sleep debt..."

This makes me want to cry like a baby. I haven't had a 12 hour nights sleep in over a decade. Shit, I haven't had more than 6 hours this year. Need to fucking sort it out.

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson I'm skeptical as well. To my knowledge 1-2 lbs of lean mass per month is the realistic estimate of what's possible without supplements.

The numbers don't seem credible either. Marcus has gone down by only 7% body fat despite losing 17lbs of fat and apparently gaining 13lbs of muscle. A 30lb swing in muscle to fat ratio has only had a 7% effect? Surely you'd have to weigh about 300lbs for those numbers to hold up?

To be fair, personal trainers are the real estate agents of the fitness world. Anyone without a high school education can get that job.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J How is all this being measured?

Adipometers, rulers, and for all I know, computer wizardry. Here, I've got my "before" papers from the time I first got pinched at this gym:



I resized the image here, but the original file is still gigantic in case you want to read Portuguese and see if there's anything weird

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson I'm skeptical as well. To my knowledge 1-2 lbs of lean mass per month is the realistic estimate of what's possible without supplements.

Well, I'm close to the 2 pounds per month, aren't I? Maybe the extra 3 pounds are due to human error? Me being a mutant? A combination of both factors? Also, keep in mind I've rounded the numbers and remembered them in kilograms (250 grams being more than half a pound), so there's a lot of room here for imprecision.

All right, all I know is that I'm hiring both of you now to be part of what we call "junta m�dica" down here. I don't know what a group of doctors is called in English, but that's like a military junta anyway, except you're armed with stethoscopes, data, and white coats

(Seriously, though, I'm clueless as to what may have gone wrong if there really is a problem here)

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Originally posted by Lira (Seriously, though, I'm clueless as to what may have gone wrong if there really is a problem here)

Measuring body fat is notoriously difficult, and the old fashioned pinching method is liable to give less-than-realistic results. I had a friend who got examined in this way and came out of it claiming he had 1% body fat, which would make him clinically dead.

What you've described is absolute 100% dream results - hugely impressive mass gains (more than the maximum of what can be achieved naturally) with considerable simultaneous fat loss! Just about any bodybuilder not jacked up on bro-science will say that gaining significant muscle mass will always come with a bit of fat gain as you stuff your body with calories to fuel the growth. So to achieve both goals simultaneously and so eye-poppingly is a bit hard to credit.

I suspect he's simply being overly optimistic in terms of your mass gain, and actually you've lost a bit less fat than he's claiming. And it's in his interest to feed you impressive numbers to justify his services. It's either that or you have the best personal trainer in the southern hemisphere.

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson To be fair, personal trainers are the real estate agents of the fitness world. Anyone without a high school education can get that job.

Lol, you have some deep seated problems with real estate agents and personal trainers don't you? Must be the 3rd time I've seen you say that sentence. We get it, you're special, you change bed pans for a living, well done.

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Originally posted by Lira Adipometers, rulers, and for all I know, computer wizardry. Here, I've got my "before" papers from the time I first got pinched at this gym: I resized the image here, but the original file is still gigantic in case you want to read Portuguese and see if there's anything weird Well, I'm close to the 2 pounds per month, aren't I? Maybe the extra 3 pounds are due to human error? Me being a mutant? A combination of both factors? Also, keep in mind I've rounded the numbers and remembered them in kilograms (250 grams being more than half a pound), so there's a lot of room here for imprecision. All right, all I know is that I'm hiring both of you now to be part of what we call "junta m�dica" down here. I don't know what a group of doctors is called in English, but that's like a military junta anyway, except you're armed with stethoscopes, data, and white coats (Seriously, though, I'm clueless as to what may have gone wrong if there really is a problem here)

Is it all pinch testing or do they also do Bioelectrical impedance analysis etc?

In fairness, as terrible as my portuguese is, that looks like a pretty in depth test but as Jack says and from my experience you can't use it in isolation.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Is it all pinch testing or do they also do Bioelectrical impedance analysis etc?

It's all pinch testing. Is bioelectrical impedance analysis much better?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Measuring body fat is notoriously difficult, and the old fashioned pinching method is liable to give less-than-realistic results. I had a friend who got examined in this way and came out of it claiming he had 1% body fat, which would make him clinically dead.

Please tell me he was a champ about it and at least made some puns like "dead on"

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What you've described is absolute 100% dream results - hugely impressive mass gains (more than the maximum of what can be achieved naturally) with considerable simultaneous fat loss! Just about any bodybuilder not jacked up on bro-science will say that gaining significant muscle mass will always come with a bit of fat gain as you stuff your body with calories to fuel the growth. So to achieve both goals simultaneously and so eye-poppingly is a bit hard to credit.

I'm well aware of that. But, being an ignorant ignoramus about how things go, I thought the gains I had weren't that much and the numbers seemed completely credible.

Maybe they were wrong the first time around? Or later on? I didn't even know they were supposed to be fantastic or anything, that's why I started off saying it wasn't stellar or anything. To the best of my knowledge, I just slimmed down a bit, and I'm glad I did

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Originally posted by Silky Johnson To be fair, personal trainers are the real estate agents of the fitness world. Anyone without a high school education can get that job.

Actually, Brazil does have a rigid regulation regarding gym instructors (assuming, that is, my gym follows the regulation). You're supposed to have a degree in physical education and the syndicate is quite protective, so if they hear about someone unqualified working at a big gym (such as mine), the poor fellow is going down.

I guess he just didn't bother retaking the tests because he was filling in for the first instructor, so there's also that - isn't there some discrepancy when two different people measure you? I just didn't know the numbers were so unreliable...

Oh, well, I still lost some weight, so I've got that going for me, which is nice

If different people took different measurements, that might well explain it. I've read (only this evening, lest it be thought I'm some expert on this) that the best way to reduce variance with the pinching method is to get exactly the same spot each time. Obviously if two different people did the tests, that almost certainly didn't happen.

The thing is, people seriously under-estimate what 1lb of lean muscle looks like. Imagine what 450g of lean steak looks like, and then imagine pressing that against your shoulder or chest or wherever else. 13 lots of that is going to make a tremendous difference to your appearance. When you gain fat it's distributed relatively evenly across the body - right across your torso and back, arms, legs, neck and face - so the effect isn't so pronounced.

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Originally posted by Lira It's all pinch testing. Is bioelectrical impedance analysis much better?

The true answer is a combination of both; there's advantages, overlap and shortcomings of both but allegedly combining both, rather than relying on one or the other is the most accurate but then you need someone who really knows how to perform both and read both sets of results. It's probably beyond the reach of any very decent gym - you're more looking at pro sports facilities or research institutes or recovery centers. Still, they can be found everyone, but it ain't cheap. Road cyclists are fanatical about it and have developed all sorts of techniques so if you're really curious a good starting place is to reach out to that crowd.

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Originally posted by Lira Actually, Brazil does have a rigid regulation regarding gym instructors (assuming, that is, my gym follows the regulation). You're supposed to have a degree in physical education and the syndicate is quite protective, so if they hear about someone unqualified working at a big gym (such as mine), the poor fellow is going down.

Pay no heed; she's being an elitist twat about it as usual and basically anything that didn't require years of academia and lots of little exams to get little posters to hang your wall as self validation, isn't a true profession.

I'll grant that in as recently as a decade ago in certain places (USA) you needed very little or no accreditation to be a personal trainer and even Jillian Michaels, probably one of the most famous personal trainers (Biggest loser TV show trainer) actually didn't have any official accreditation when she started on that series.

However, now the vast majority of people in the industry have degrees or at least true accreditation becuase if someone hurts themselves or dies, you're going to be sued or done for manslaughter without something official and you can't get insurance or work in a gym without accreditation these days (as it's not worth it for them either). Furthermore, most people who are personal trainers were or are semi or pro athletes so it's not like they don't have a lot of experience. In other words, it;s a misconception to think that personal trainers are all just douchebags who wanted to make money from time in the gym.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J If different people took different measurements, that might well explain it. I've read (only this evening, lest it be thought I'm some expert on this) that the best way to reduce variance with the pinching method is to get exactly the same spot each time. Obviously if two different people did the tests, that almost certainly didn't happen.

This was probably it then

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The thing is, people seriously under-estimate what 1lb of lean muscle looks like. Imagine what 450g of lean steak looks like

Being a vegetarian often brings me unexpected problems... This is one of them

BRB, gonna head to the supermarket and take a look at the steaks!

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Originally posted by DJ RANN The true answer is a combination of both; there's advantages, overlap and shortcomings of both but allegedly combining both, rather than relying on one or the other is the most accurate but then you need someone who really knows how to perform both and read both sets of results. It's probably beyond the reach of any very decent gym - you're more looking at pro sports facilities or research institutes or recovery centers. Still, they can be found everyone, but it ain't cheap. Road cyclists are fanatical about it and have developed all sorts of techniques so if you're really curious a good starting place is to reach out to that crowd.

Hmm... If I get too serious about it, I'll remember that and give it a try. Thanks, mate

Actually, I should thank you all for being so helpful with my fitness goals. I've learned quite a lot, much obliged!

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Measuring body fat is notoriously difficult, and the old fashioned pinching method is liable to give less-than-realistic results. I had a friend who got examined in this way and came out of it claiming he had 1% body fat, which would make him clinically dead.

Jack, I'm telling you, I only have 1% body fat!

This was ten years ago, some guy I went to university with. Did the ol' calipers tell you the same thing?

EDIT: To be honest, the best advice I ever read on this subject is that the numbers don't really matter, given how hard they are to measure accurately. It's all about how you look and feel. When I can see my abs, I know my bodyfat is low enough, whatever the percentage figure might be. If you've still got a belly you're not happy with, there's still work to do.

Lira I can't read Pottygeese but how'd you score on the ass pinch and stool test? Btw what's this all about? Are you turning into a professor fatty? Pics

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J This was ten years ago, some guy I went to university with. Did the ol' calipers tell you the same thing?

Yeah; years ago, probably also around ten actually, in some health assessment in school, I was told by some trainee nurse or something like that my body fat was a solid 1%. The head kindly informed her I would be legally dead, if that were the case. I think they ended up putting me down at 4% or something.

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