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-- I want to upgrade my monitors... BUT

I want to upgrade my monitors... BUT

... will I think its worth it?
... will they sound better?
... will my life be complete if i buy new ones?

I have a pair of M-Audio Bx8 studiophile monitors right now, the first i ever bought. I have been looking at the Genelec M040.
They are hot and sexy and would look good at my place. Chicks would probably dig them too. But how big difference is it between theese two? Would i regret it?

The Bx8 has an 8" woofer and m040 6,5". But bigger is not always better?

I cant go listen to them anyplace near right now so im just asking here.


Did YOU regret buying new monitors? Or is there no such thing as regret when we are talking about better sound?

1. Buy the best monitors you can afford - else you will just want to keep upgrading
2. Invest in some room treatment or work in a room that requires little treatment

personally, i do a lot of mixing in my headphones these days - just use the monitors for a break from the headphones and for checking low end

quote:

Originally posted by evo8 personally, i do a lot of mixing in my headphones these days - just use the monitors for a break from the headphones and for checking low end

This is pretty much my exact strategy as well.

I don't have the option of using a room with good acoustics, so I pretty much only rely on my monitors for checking the presence of lows compared to mids and highs. I almost always end up cutting the lows/low mids and boosting the highs after switching to my monitors.

However, I think understanding the limitations of your own setup may be more important than another incremental upgrade. I notice my mixing is getting better and better now when I am using headphones because I understand the general frequency response of my headphones. Sony MDR 7506 are very bright sounding, with very attenuated lows / low mids. Knowing that allows me to avoid overcompensating the lows/low mids as well as not being afraid to boost the highs past what sounds acceptable on my headphones.

Understanding the limitations of your room is similar in principal most likely. Things like knowing which bass frequencies being attenuated could make a big difference. You could then go on to fix that with treatment or position adjustment.

^^ Any chance you could post a larger picture? I can't quite see that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk ^^ Any chance you could post a larger picture? I can't quite see that one.

Late 90s forum software ftw

Genelec is a Finnish company, so you should always support them whether you need the monitors or not

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Genelec is a Finnish company, so you should always support them whether you need the monitors or not

As a finn born in sweden, I agree!



Zak McKracken:
What i heard M040 is almost like the 8040 but without any extras. Just good genelec sound. But i am not interested in the 8040. They are way too expensive.
I found the M040 for 465 EUR and the 8040 for 795 EUR. 465 EUR is more my budget. And with that price they are sexy!

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken Those prices are for each right? Not a pair? Yeah the 8040 are expensive which is why I suggested second hand. I don't really know the new ones. Go and listen.

Yes thats right, for each. I have looked at second hand but 8040 are hard to find. And when i find them they still too expensive.

What Evo and Nitride said is on the money. Buy the best you can afford and remember it's all about translation.

I've seen real pros (Score Mix Engineers) mix on the shittest monitors and get it right, because they know what the result will be, and the first time I was sat in front of $150k of B&W surround monitors, I couldn't make sense of anything I was hearing and it took like 3 months of near daily use to understand them.

I like Gene's but I've always found them harsh and give me fatigue, but that a personal thing. They are very details and pretty damn flat.

My advice is to go to the largest pro audio retailer near you, and try everything, and take meticulous notes on each one with your own reference music. Don't buy that day.

Go back another day and do it again, and see if your notes still make sense, and see which one really speaks to you. There were some I first thought were amazing but later realized it was trickery (Mackie HR824) and others that I didn't feel at first, but then realized they were actually great if I gave them a chance (Adams). I ended up with JBL's in the end because they were the right sweet spot of size, quality budget etc, but whatever you do, don't fucking buy KRK lol.

I was actually about to buy Genelecs myself a few years back. I was already in the store with the money in my hand, but then on a whim I thought I'd try the Tannoys. I liked their sound much better, and got those instead. Choosing your monitors is mostly about preference at the end of the day.

I think the most important question is this: do you really need new monitors, or do you just want them?

imho when you get to a certain price range then the difference is just down to the user and what they are hearing and what their room is like

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I think the most important question is this: do you really need new monitors, or do you just want them?

I need a new couch. Thats what I need. Actually dont need new monitors since my bx8 work and sound ok. But I was thinking that I was missing out on something since they are a bit old and not top of the line. But maybe not.

Maybe I will just buy the new couch instead...

I was comparing many monitors this week, If I were to splurge I'd personally get Yamaha hs8's (amazing how much better they are than even the 7's) or the likes of JBL 5/8 with those nice horn/waveguides. Those 1000+dollar monitors have nice depth but fuck that. Im too stressed to touch my bank account atm though.

honestly i think that unless you have a room that sounds great (or is really well treated for bass/first reflection etc) it is really not worth spending that much on monitors. IMO in this case its better to invest in a good set of headpones (i used AKG k701 which you can buy for around �100 now which seems like an absolute bargain) and some more mid range focused speakers like HS5 or Mixcubes. And reference professional mixes using something like voxengo span Youll get better mixes

Ive got genelec 8040a which are lovely speakers with a good bass response down to 45 HZ. However in my current untreated room, which although a good size (its my living room) and although i have done good speaker placement I cant make any mix decisions based on the output of the genelecs. It would be like mixing with a huge load of eq boosts and cuts accross the frequency spectrum, a shit load of wiered sounding reverb added and messed up stereo imaging.

I mean certain bass frequencies stick out a mile, so when the bass hits a certain note its like boom! impossible

quote:

Originally posted by MSZ I was comparing many monitors this week, If I were to splurge I'd personally get Yamaha hs8's (amazing how much better they are than even the 7's) or the likes of JBL 5/8 with those nice horn/waveguides. Those 1000+dollar monitors have nice depth but fuck that. Im too stressed to touch my bank account atm though.

Yeah, in my shootout from a few years back, the HS80's were my top pick in the price range and they beat the shit out of many other, even more expensive monitors.

Only reason that i didn;t got for them was that my untreated space at the time was really small and had glass windows behind it, so the larger response was just going to boom.

Upgrading to something like focals is nice for the extra detail but you're talking about spending $1000 more for maybe 5% increase in sound, and unless all the other things are equal (right shape and size of room, treatment, good cabling, balanced power conditioning etc etc) then that return is even less.

quote:

Originally posted by chris marsh honestly i think that unless you have a room that sounds great (or is really well treated for bass/first reflection etc) it is really not worth spending that much on monitors. IMO in this case its better to invest in a good set of headpones (i used AKG k701 which you can buy for around �100 now which seems like an absolute bargain) and some more mid range focused speakers like HS5 or Mixcubes. And reference professional mixes using something like voxengo span Youll get better mixes Ive got genelec 8040a which are lovely speakers with a good bass response down to 45 HZ. However in my current untreated room, which although a good size (its my living room) and although i have done good speaker placement I cant make any mix decisions based on the output of the genelecs. It would be like mixing with a huge load of eq boosts and cuts across the frequency spectrum, a shit load of weird sounding reverb added and messed up stereo imaging. I mean certain bass frequencies stick out a mile, so when the bass hits a certain note its like boom! impossible

As I said above the other things need to be equal, so beyond a certain point, spending more or having better monitors is a waste. It's like using an an F1 car to go grocery shipping; You need a race track to take full advantage of the car.

There's a bit of a myth about mixcubes. They're really to cross reference for TV production as they mimic shitty TV speakers, and HS5's will give you the mid range but still not much detail. It's really a third or even fourth stop reference after your main monitors and headphones and car system.

True mix engineers don't bother referencing things like mix cubes outside of TV becuase they know how their speakers sound. I know one guy that can mix for stereo on a full surround setup and nail it without referencing. It's about knowing translation of your monitors more than anything else.

I don't mean to contradict you, but there' no way your 8040's go down to 45hz. For a start Gene only claim 48hz and that's a real stretch, I'd be amazed if those 6.5 drivers can even push out 80hz accurately, let alone 48hz.

Re: I want to upgrade my monitors... BUT

quote:

Originally posted by Connector ... will I think its worth it? ... will they sound better? ... will my life be complete if i buy new ones? I have a pair of M-Audio Bx8 studiophile monitors right now, the first i ever bought. I have been looking at the Genelec M040. They are hot and sexy and would look good at my place. Chicks would probably dig them too. But how big difference is it between theese two? Would i regret it? The Bx8 has an 8" woofer and m040 6,5". But bigger is not always better? I cant go listen to them anyplace near right now so im just asking here. Did YOU regret buying new monitors? Or is there no such thing as regret when we are talking about better sound?

What is the purpose of considering new monitors?

Do you want to impress the ladies?
You have money to splurge and want to feel better about life?
Are your current monitors holding you back?

Please advise your intentions clearly which in turn will enable us to advise you properly.

Nevertheless, the Genelec M040 is an excellent monitor - in the same ballpark as the Focal CMS 65 and the Adam A7X.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Yeah, in my shootout from a few years back, the HS80's were my top pick in the price range and they beat the shit out of many other, even more expensive monitors. Only reason that i didn;t got for them was that my untreated space at the time was really small and had glass windows behind it, so the larger response was just going to boom. Upgrading to something like focals is nice for the extra detail but you're talking about spending $1000 more for maybe 5% increase in sound, and unless all the other things are equal (right shape and size of room, treatment, good cabling, balanced power conditioning etc etc) then that return is even less. As I said above the other things need to be equal, so beyond a certain point, spending more or having better monitors is a waste. It's like using an an F1 car to go grocery shipping; You need a race track to take full advantage of the car. There's a bit of a myth about mixcubes. They're really to cross reference for TV production as they mimic shitty TV speakers, and HS5's will give you the mid range but still not much detail. It's really a third or even fourth stop reference after your main monitors and headphones and car system. True mix engineers don't bother referencing things like mix cubes outside of TV becuase they know how their speakers sound. I know one guy that can mix for stereo on a full surround setup and nail it without referencing. It's about knowing translation of your monitors more than anything else. I don't mean to contradict you, but there' no way your 8040's go down to 45hz. For a start Gene only claim 48hz and that's a real stretch, I'd be amazed if those 6.5 drivers can even push out 80hz accurately, let alone 48hz.

no worries at all. I thought i had read they went down to 45HZ but after googling it the data sheet says there is a -3db cut at this point so it was inaccurate of me I stand corrected As the for the accuracy of the lows i couldn't tell you, but they do sound good to me in a treated room

yup I agree the mixcube or other "grot box" isn't a first point of reference, but for me in my room its (i have one and run it in mono) more useful than the 8040s and in turn less useful than the AKGs and i was just giving my opinion, and wondering if the OP has similar conditions to work in.

I used to have a well treated room, with about 15 traps, including some extra thick ones for the lows and then i was using the 8040s a lot. Im plannng to treat my new room soon but as its the living room aesthetics and practicality have to be considered too

Im not a mix engineer, let alone a true mix engineer (im a fireman ) But i find referencing other tracks useful. I think its the single biggest factor that helped my tracks start to sound better and less crappy

also seems like people do use the mixcube(s) for the same purpose as i do http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...-active-mixcube etc

I did a days tuition with your mate (alex i think) quite a few year ago and I think he said you are an ex pro engineer and spoke very highly of you. Are you still working with sound? I think he mentioned that you were in the states setting up a new business

quote:

Originally posted by chris marsh no worries at all. I thought i had read they went down to 45HZ but after googling it the data sheet says there is a -3db cut at this point so it was inaccurate of me I stand corrected As the for the accuracy of the lows i couldn't tell you, but they do sound good to me in a treated room yup I agree the mixcube or other "grot box" isn't a first point of reference, but for me in my room its (i have one and run it in mono) more useful than the 8040s and in turn less useful than the AKGs and i was just giving my opinion, and wondering if the OP has similar conditions to work in. I used to have a well treated room, with about 15 traps, including some extra thick ones for the lows and then i was using the 8040s a lot. Im plannng to treat my new room soon but as its the living room aesthetics and practicality have to be considered too Im not a mix engineer, let alone a true mix engineer (im a fireman ) But i find referencing other tracks useful. I think its the single biggest factor that helped my tracks start to sound better and less crappy also seems like people do use the mixcube(s) for the same purpose as i do http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...-active-mixcube etc I did a days tuition with your mate (alex i think) quite a few year ago and I think he said you are an ex pro engineer and spoke very highly of you. Are you still working with sound? I think he mentioned that you were in the states setting up a new business

Oh fuck, that's you! I'd forgotten. That's so weird, I literally got a text from Alex about 20mins ago. He's absolutely killing it. He won a Bafta two years ago and was nominated last year - he's become a pretty big name in score for TV, especially documentaries. Not sure if he's still teaching?

I'm not doing sound for money (lol) anymore, I had a great time but ultimately, doing those hours and having that lifestyle was sucking the life out of me and I started to lose all passion for music. I would mention what projects I was working on and people would lose their shit, but all the wow factor had gone for me and I didn't want my job to make me permanently hate music or score, and end up bitter like most of those before me.

It became a hobby again and I'm so much happier about it, not to mention I earn 10 times what I used to when I was allegedly at the very top of the industry.

You;re right though about the Auratones, I suppose they do have a good use, just most of the guys I worked with in a professional capacity were kinda over them, but that has more to do with the fact they didn't need them unless they were working on a mainstream TV show that people might watch on a shitty TV or phone, as all the score mixes were done to accommodate amazing speakers as that was the primary medium.
Also, I probably underestimate how useful they are for things like vocals or drums, and should probably give them another chance. Again, I'm a little spoiled becuase the guys I used to work with and know now, just spend so much time in front of their preferred monitors which are usually $10k+ that they don't need or want to check on another medium. My car has an exceptionally shitty sound system, that has such bad stereo imaging, it;s basically mono, so that's my grotbox lol.

Have a look in to Ethan Wiener or real traps for ideas; they do some soundproofing options that are designed for the home, things like mini traps and gobos that don't make your living area look hideous. I think there was even one bass trap disguised as a plant?

😄😄 hi mate. That's amazing about Alex. I've not spoken to him since the days lesson which must have been nearly 5 years ago. He had played me some of his score stuff and i remember saying that I much preferred it to his house productions. Sounded awesome and full of flair. He's a musical guy. Think he said he studied piano and saxophone quite extensively. Nice bloke too
I got the idea for the grot box speaker from Mike seniors "mixing secrets for the small studio". I like the idea that it bypasses a lot of the problems in my room and i agree its really good for basic adjustments. I remember reading that quincy Jones called the original auratones "truth speakers" and bruce swindon mixed 80% of thriller on them (that music has no sub lol)
Yes it must be a different world mixing in a perfect room with 5k speakers to mixing in your living room!
Cheers, im really limited for budget with my treatment, but I've kept all my my old traps, minus the largest corner wedges in my parents basement and plan to recover them in white so they blend in better

So did alex say you were setting up some kind if health spa with your missus? What kind of stuff you working on now?

C


Edit: just reading about speakers. The genelecs are rear ported so that must be why they go down so low. The freq response looks good on a freq/volume graph but as soon as you add time to the equation its a different story for below around 90hz. Interesting, so that's what you meant about them not being accurate under 90hx or so, because a speaker that size just can't reproduce those frequencies?

C

Re: Re: I want to upgrade my monitors... BUT

quote:

Originally posted by varun What is the purpose of considering new monitors? Do you want to impress the ladies? You have money to splurge and want to feel better about life? Are your current monitors holding you back?

For once i got money and i could afford better stuff and I like nice crystal clear sound. And I would probably feel better.
And I want to believe that its my monitors that is holding me back... But buying new monitors would probably make it clear that I am wrong about that.

But after reading this thread I think that I will either fix some kind of sound treatment in my studio so monitors sound better or buy a new set of hifi speakers to test my music on (and listen to others)

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