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-- When does a track become a classic?

When does a track become a classic?

Does it become classic simply by turning a certain age? What about tracks from the last 10 years?

A classic in whose eyes?

System F - Out of the Blue became a classic almost instantly (even if that's easiest to say retrospectively)---it was perceived by many to be different, something new (compared to previous trance), which e.g. led a number of British label owners to immediately try and sign it, and certain DJs immediately went on to play it, and it subsequently became a trailblazing track whose way of doing trance was imitated by others and it became known as the prime example of that recognisable Dutch trance template, as acknowledged by fans and haters alike. You can despise it for all sorts of reasons but its influence cannot be denied.
I think it was one of Twan's producer-interview videos that featured the anecdote that when the label sent out the first test pressings they deliberately made the record label info stamped or etched on the vinyl runout illegible so if people got interested it was going to be a bit of a mystery who might be the producer/label behind this 'special' record. Which gives the impression they knew there'd be a good chance that this record was going to be picked up as something new and different.
I supposed one might say Armin - Communication was already derivative, going the same trajectory of being picked up for commercial release in the UK, but not having the same impact (I think).

Ergo, hype, dj/airplay, commercial potential, and both uniqueness and recognition.. Unless something becomes a classic for none of these reasons altogether. And talent? Within the trance framework Ferry Corsten was at the time a much better producer than peers (to be) such as Armin and Ti�sto, although obviously in the broader context of electronic music it wasn't merely his producing skills that made him stand out in this instance.

It�s quite a good question to be fair

There�s 3 criteria that spring to mind for me:
1 Did the track make a significant impact on *it�s* scene when it was released?
2. Did the track have an impact on other scenes as well? (Did it get played by various DJs across different genres)
3. Does it still sound amazing today? And an acid test here is probably �could it be played in a modern set without sounding completely contrived?�

There�s probably a few different levels of classic.
A stone wall classic is one that satisfies all 3 of the above. Something like Age Of Love (Jam & Spoon remix) obviously ticks all boxes

Then you�ve got classics within a genre, which only satisfy criteria #1. An obvious example off the top of my head would be something like Motorcycle- As The Rush Comes. It was a huge track in the trance scene when it was released, getting played by every single DJ and featuring on every compilation album. It wouldn�t work in a modern set, and I suspect everyone outside of the trance scene would sneer at it, but I don�t think anyone would argue that it�s a classic trance record (whether you like it or not)

The third criteria is one that gives license to have a collection of �personal classics�. Tunes that you used to hammer in all your sets back in the day, which you have a special place in your heart for, but weren�t necessarily known by a broad audience. I�ve got my own ones here; something like Moshic - Una Hamm (Hypnotic Duo remix) would tick this box for me, but I don�t suspect that many people wouldn�t know if. To me, it will always be a personal classic

The third criteria is obviously a bit spurious, but I think there�s something in it 😀

There's no hard and fast answer, but on the most simplistic level a "classic" is a track that appeared in a lot of DJ sets when it came out. If that happened, it will be guaranteed to be regarded as a classic eventually, and the only question is how long. Usually it takes a solid decade for people to get misty eyed about these things, but I look back on tunes like Bicep's remix of A Higher Level from 2016 or Damon Jee's remix of Power To The People from 2017 and think "that's going to be remembered as a classic".

I do think Jon's right in distinguishing scene classics from overall unquestionable classics that have transcended their little genre. The latter have become rarer as dance music has become increasingly compartmentalised into little sub-scenes, but they still come around occasionally. Even if we look back in time, Out Of The Blue was strictly a trance classic, but The Man With The Red Face is a capital C Classic.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Even if we look back in time, Out Of The Blue was strictly a trance classic, but The Man With The Red Face is a capital C Classic.

Absolutely right - my attempt with the example of OOTB was a narrow one (though with broader relevance in the light of those using it to cast "trance" as they define it in a particular light).

Nice posts by the lads here.

It's still a good example of how a brand new tune can "feel" instantly classic. If you hear a track seemingly every time you go out, if the whole crowd seems to know it and if it drives everyone bonkers, then pretty much immediately you think "Instant classic".

Again, these feel a lot more rare these days because dance music has diversified so much and the sheer volume of new music is so great that tracks get washed away much more quickly, but I can think of a few modern examples: Kolsch - Der Alte, Floorplan - Tell You No Lie or Todd Terje - Inspector Norse were all instant classics and will take their place in the pantheon alongside the likes of Energy Flash, Knights Of The Jaguar and LFO.

when we did pre drinks and played tunes before heading out whatever found its way into multiple track listings became personal classics even if they did not get much attention outside the cellar

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Originally posted by JonDC It�s quite a good question to be fair There�s 3 criteria that spring to mind for me: 1 Did the track make a significant impact on *it�s* scene when it was released? 2. Did the track have an impact on other scenes as well? (Did it get played by various DJs across different genres) 3. Does it still sound amazing today? And an acid test here is probably �could it be played in a modern set without sounding completely contrived?� There�s probably a few different levels of classic. A stone wall classic is one that satisfies all 3 of the above. Something like Age Of Love (Jam & Spoon remix) obviously ticks all boxes Then you�ve got classics within a genre, which only satisfy criteria #1. An obvious example off the top of my head would be something like Motorcycle- As The Rush Comes. It was a huge track in the trance scene when it was released, getting played by every single DJ and featuring on every compilation album. It wouldn�t work in a modern set, and I suspect everyone outside of the trance scene would sneer at it, but I don�t think anyone would argue that it�s a classic trance record (whether you like it or not) The third criteria is one that gives license to have a collection of �personal classics�. Tunes that you used to hammer in all your sets back in the day, which you have a special place in your heart for, but weren�t necessarily known by a broad audience. I�ve got my own ones here; something like Moshic - Una Hamm (Hypnotic Duo remix) would tick this box for me, but I don�t suspect that many people wouldn�t know if. To me, it will always be a personal classic The third criteria is obviously a bit spurious, but I think there�s something in it 😀

I remember how people were being edgy by saying ATRC isn't as good as people are hyping it up to be. But it's catchy and sounded different from the usual uplifting trance that was coming out at the time. Out Of the Blue had the same impact as well.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J There's no hard and fast answer, but on the most simplistic level a "classic" is a track that appeared in a lot of DJ sets when it came out. If that happened, it will be guaranteed to be regarded as a classic eventually, and the only question is how long. Usually it takes a solid decade for people to get misty eyed about these things, but I look back on tunes like Bicep's remix of A Higher Level from 2016 or Damon Jee's remix of Power To The People from 2017 and think "that's going to be remembered as a classic". I do think Jon's right in distinguishing scene classics from overall unquestionable classics that have transcended their little genre. The latter have become rarer as dance music has become increasingly compartmentalised into little sub-scenes, but they still come around occasionally. Even if we look back in time, Out Of The Blue was strictly a trance classic, but The Man With The Red Face is a capital C Classic.

I know little to nothing about the last 10 years but man, Bicep is a name that can't be avoided.

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Originally posted by Mattsanity I know little to nothing about the last 10 years but man, Bicep is a name that can't be avoided.

One of the things I�d challenge is how long something needs to be out before you can safely call it a classic. Bicep - Glue was very obviously an instant classic in my books

Taking this quandary further...

How might a classic track *lose* its classic status?

Its genre become woefully outdated? It wasn't really much of a 'classic' in the first place, and grows forgotten as that clubbing generation moves on? The producer of said track gets 'cancelled', reducing their body of work rather icky to hear again?

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Originally posted by Sykonee Taking this quandary further... How might a classic track *lose* its classic status? Its genre become woefully outdated? It wasn't really much of a 'classic' in the first place, and grows forgotten as that clubbing generation moves on? The producer of said track gets 'cancelled', reducing their body of work rather icky to hear again?

Can you give any examples of tracks that fit the bill?

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Originally posted by JonDC Can you give any examples of tracks that fit the bill?

Anything R Kelly is what immediately springs to mind.

With regards to clubland, that's a bit more difficult to pare down. Even woefully outdated stuff can still trigger retro charm. There's probably a whole pile of trance tunes from the '00s that were thought of as classics for a couple years, but hardly remarked upon now (must I scour 14 volumes of ASOT Classics compilations to find them?)

It's very, very rare that the entire dance music scene collectively decides something isn't a classic anymore. Even if the accusations of Derrick May being a wrong'un keep piling up, I doubt Strings Of Life is going to be suddenly erased from the canon. It's on too many mixes, in too many record collections, commemorated in too many books. So this can only be a case of something becoming a "forgotten classic".

I suppose the philosophical question you're asking is who needs to consider a track a classic? Does it need to be known to the kids of today, or is it enough to still be remembered in the increasingly patchy memories of retired veterans?

In the past I might have said tracks can get stylistically phased out. Some of the mad high-tempo, low-tech bangers of the 1990s just wouldn't fit in any modern DJ set and so younger generations were less and less likely to be exposed to them. Similarly, during the great minimal techno re-write of the mid-00s, certain styles (trance, prog, breaks) were considered deeply uncool and the dance music press made a concerted attempt to downplay their significance, acting like the entire previous decade was a superclub folly and the correct lineage led straight from Chicago/Detroit through Berlin to the monotonous Germanic styles du jour.

But then what happened? People started making good ecstasy again, the tempos got higher and the music more euphoric, and suddenly everyone remembered how great the 1990s were after all. DJs like Ellen Allien, once the bastion of '00s Berliner minimal cool, have started playing Man With No Name tracks in amongst banging high-tempo techno. Now I see tracklists from young Gen Y or Gen Z producers/DJs pulling out super obscure Sasha IDs from 1997 or 1993 and playing them alongside the new stuff. It makes me appreciate the role sites like TA, with the patient track ID hunts, have played in contributing to the knowledge of younger generations of clubbers.

quote:

Originally posted by JonDC There�s 3 criteria that spring to mind for me: 1 Did the track make a significant impact on *its* scene when it was released? 2. Did the track have an impact on other scenes as well? (Did it get played by various DJs across different genres) 3. Does it still sound amazing today? And an acid test here is probably �could it be played in a modern set without sounding completely contrived?�

Of course number 1 is very important. But, I really don't really agree with number 2. System J mentions Ellen Allien dropping Man with no Name, sure that kind of track could work in hard techno, but clearly PFM's atmospheric dnb classic 'One and Only' wouldn't work in her set (or in any techno, trance, house, garage set). Really 100% impossible. Does that mean 'Teleport' is more of a classic? Absolutely not.


I don't really think number 3 has any merit. Let's imagine a classic from 1997 and is put in a set today. Most will sound out of place, but that shouldn't reduce its quality as a classic in the slightest. I guess though this is why you get some tracks that are given a revamp, the beat/speed made a bit more modern with not much change to the sound. I guess if the track fits into a modern set it's just a bonus

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The Man With The Red Face is a capital C Classic.

what does this mean?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Some of the mad high-tempo, low-tech bangers of the 1990s just wouldn't fit in any modern DJ set and so younger generations were less and less likely to be exposed to them. Similarly, during the great minimal techno re-write of the mid-00s, certain styles (trance, prog, breaks) were considered deeply uncool and the dance music press made a concerted attempt to downplay their significance, acting like the entire previous decade was a superclub folly and the correct lineage led straight from Chicago/Detroit through Berlin to the monotonous Germanic styles du jour. But then what happened? People started making good ecstasy again, the tempos got higher and the music more euphoric, and suddenly everyone remembered how great the 1990s were after all. DJs like Ellen Allien, once the bastion of '00s Berliner minimal cool, have started playing Man With No Name tracks in amongst banging high-tempo techno.

"Dragonfly Records, the trance arm of Butterfly Recordings, was a seminal label in the Electronic trance music lineage and arguably the first UK / European Goa Trance label.
The label was founded by music producer Youth and based at his Butterfly Studios in Brixton, London. Butterfly Studios was home to an awesome setup with a 24 channel DDA desk, Amek 24 channel 2" Tape, Lexicon Reverbs, Eventide H3000, Ensoniq DP/4+, Bel Delay & Flanger and innumerable vintage Analogue & Digital Synthesizers."

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange what does this mean?

Did they not teach you about capital letters at Starfleet Academy?

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