Why we classical some trance as commercial

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Australia
-- Why we classical some trance as commercial

Posted by djkeenetik on Nov-19-2002 17:22:

Why we classical some trance as commercial

Just a matter of interest...

Why do we classical trance as commericial, i reckon some of the stuff ian van dahl makes are great but because he is regarded as commercial his songs have a bad stigma attached to it. same with lasgo... and dj sammy (not all his stuff is cheesy)
I dont believe that Fragma is all that commercial either...

I think when it comes down to it we think its commercial cos it gets radio air time...like to know what others think

Posted by Renegade on Nov-19-2002 19:21:

I think there's a difference between something being cheesy and something being commercial.

Cheesy means that it has a sort of "tacky" feeling to it, that it can't really be taken seriously. Commercial merely means that it was produced to make money.

A track can be commercial without being cheesy, and cheesy without being commercial.

As for the artists you mentioned, I think that Ian Van Dahl (one or two of the members = Absolom) was okay before Castles In The Sky - which I don't think was all that cheesy - but the last two (Will I/I Try or something?) - even if they weren't cheesy, sounded formulaic and commercial to me. Fragma and DJ Sammy are cheese (probably not commercial, because I doubt their first tunes were made to make money - though the follow up singles may have been), though I don't mind that Lasgo song, though admittedly only for the sample from "Go".

And you're right about people jumping off the bandwagon once a track gets ariplay.

[/trance music guru mode]

Posted by escee on Nov-19-2002 23:42:

This is how i would define cheese. Cheesy tracks have really simple synths that are easy to remember and catchy, sort of like the synths in ferry corstens punk or tiestos flight 643. Sometimes they have really cheesy vocals, most often about love and such. The simple synths and vocals make the track acceptable for the mainstream to thrash on the radio if they want to. Cheese is not always played on the radio. However, Cheese is not always bad, and just because you dont like a track its not cheese. Cheese can be likable, and I guess what is cheese differs from person to person, but that is my definition.

Posted by Hybrid Junkie on Nov-20-2002 02:06:

Yeah but I thought that flight 643 was pretty original and not really just simple/memorable synths for the mainstream, I think most people would find them annoying. I agree with you escee except I just like flight 643, and it's musical components...

Posted by escee on Nov-20-2002 03:08:

as i said, cheese can be likable. I didnt mind 643 either, but you have got to admit, it is pretty cheesy.

Posted by ultim8DTM5 on Nov-20-2002 03:14:

i like 643 because it pounds, and punk (the version in pvd@rosenmontagsrave) for the same reason...

personally its the same, when a song gets put onto a wild cd, its dead....gone to the dark side

Posted by InSoMnIa^ on Nov-20-2002 07:16:

Most points I was going to say, have already been said. So just to add to what has already been said, alot of things which i would classify as commercial and cheezy is most of what is played on Nova during the day, and tracks which are easily listened to by the commercial community.

Posted by djkeenetik on Nov-21-2002 14:50:

quote:
Originally posted by ultim8DTM5
i like 643 because it pounds, and punk (the version in pvd@rosenmontagsrave) for the same reason...

personally its the same, when a song gets put onto a wild cd, its dead....gone to the dark side

hahaha so true about the wild CDs...I cant believe i bought the first couple of Wild CDs but.....
Wild 10 had
PVD-another way
Delerium ft Matt Darey-Heaven's Earth
Armin-Communication
The Thrillseekers-Synaethesia
Agnelli and Nelson-Everyday, Everytime

And they are all classic and rockin Trance Tracks go figure

Posted by stamper on Nov-22-2002 01:08:

quote:
Originally posted by escee
as i said, cheese can be likable. I didnt mind 643 either, but you have got to admit, it is pretty cheesy.

Whaaaaat?! Flight 643 cheesy?!
Cheese is something that is almost always commercially appealing or made for the commercial market. There is absolutley no way you could classify 643 as cheese! Sorry, my opinion. You may find the synths annoying or shitty, but thats doesnt make a song cheese.

Posted by Hyperdimension on Nov-22-2002 02:07:

quote:
Originally posted by djkeenetik
Wild 10 had
PVD-another way
Delerium ft Matt Darey-Heaven's Earth
Armin-Communication
The Thrillseekers-Synaethesia
Agnelli and Nelson-Everyday, Everytime

But are they all radio edit versions?
Wild seemed to be trying hard to put quality tracks in their later releases but never succeded overall. I once saw BT - Mercury and Solace on one of the Wild compilations, but the other tracks were totally commercial hi-nrg crap.

I think we've talked about the definition of "cheese" before.

I think often vocal melodic tracks are often regarded as cheesy, especially happy hardcore with it's cute vocals and catchy childish melodies, and some vocal trance tracks e.g. tracks by Lost Witness, especially "7 colours". I'd say Ian Van Dahl - Castles in the sky is a cheesy vocal trance track too.

Just because something sounds cheesy, it doesn't mean it's not good.
There are different kinds of cheesiness, some kinds you may like, others you may not. Happy hardcore is intentionally made to be cheesy and cute, and I really like the happy hardcore style of sweet cheesiness... it makes me feel playful like a child. With many happy hardcore tracks I can sense that a lot of passion and love has gone into making the track.

A lot of love songs can also be cheesy because of the lyrics and vocals, and some people, especially girls, like that kind of cheesiness. An example of a cheesy trance love song would be:

Marc et claude - Loving you

I've seen the video clip too and it's very cheesy... something about a mannequin coming alive... but I still like it, it's cute, and I bought the single for under $5. Many happy hardcore tracks are love songs too.

I think there'd also be the commercial pop style of cheese... maybe S Club, N*Sync, Britney Spears, Vengaboys etc... they mostly make me cringe, unless they are remixed into great tracks as in the case of some Vengaboys tracks... then such remixes may not be called cheese anymore.

Posted by Tsunami One on Nov-22-2002 04:13:

It's not the fact that the track is commercial or well known, its the fact that "these" artists havn't pushed themselves to find new melodies/synths/patterns/new sounds and stuck with the same old boring formula. Because they know it will work & the ppl will put $$ int heir pockets

In the end all u want is something new.

Posted by escee on Nov-22-2002 05:17:

quote:
Originally posted by mr_stamper
Whaaaaat?! Flight 643 cheesy?!
Cheese is something that is almost always commercially appealing or made for the commercial market. There is absolutley no way you could classify 643 as cheese! Sorry, my opinion. You may find the synths annoying or shitty, but thats doesnt make a song cheese.

i like 643. But the synths are as simple as punk which is blatant cheese. Also See My Love Is On Fire if you disagree that 643 is cheese.

Posted by j�c� on Nov-22-2002 06:21:

I dont think a cheesy track is definted by the simplicity of its melody.
look at three drives, pretty much ALL of their tracks have a very very simple tune and synth and as for flight 643, thats far, far, farrr from cheese. For me cheesy tracks have over exaggerated uplifting melodies with tacky vocals that appeal to most of society

Posted by Hybrid Junkie on Nov-22-2002 07:22:

true dat jace!

on the topic of happyhardcore, some of it is just shit, others, even though maybe cheesy, are still great.

one of my favourite old skool tunes is Dyewitness - MasterPlan.

Gold! Makes me smile, it's so uplifting and cool. heheh

Posted by escee on Nov-22-2002 07:43:

personally i think 643 is cheese, i guess others dont.

Posted by stamper on Nov-22-2002 09:33:

quote:
Originally posted by j�c�
I dont think a cheesy track is definted by the simplicity of its melody.
look at three drives, pretty much ALL of their tracks have a very very simple tune and synth and as for flight 643, thats far, far, farrr from cheese. For me cheesy tracks have over exaggerated uplifting melodies with tacky vocals that appeal to most of society

werd!

Posted by djkeenetik on Nov-22-2002 10:16:

Posted by Breeze on Nov-26-2002 12:30:

why are tracks cheesey??? they aint orginal anymore, commercial tracks are always cheesey. cheesey= catchy , catchy= money.

Whos going to see SASHA???? he aint cheesey.

yeah flight 643 cheesey??? cheesey songs dun make u go insane like that(the bit where it just peaks) Loves on Fire added the cheeseness to it.

The Eyes see what the Mind Believes.

Posted by matt_a on Nov-26-2002 13:16:

Ahh You have seen Swordfish ey Breeze. Nice one dood.

quote:
Originally posted by djkeenetik

hahaha so true about the wild CDs...I cant believe i bought the first couple of Wild CDs but.....
Wild 10 had
PVD-another way
Delerium ft Matt Darey-Heaven's Earth
Armin-Communication
The Thrillseekers-Synaethesia
Agnelli and Nelson-Everyday, Everytime

And they are all classic and rockin Trance Tracks go figure

Yes this was like the first Dance CD I bought. And I absolutely adored those tracks! Especially Synaethesia! So in a way maybe these commercial things are good in a way. If I hadn't have bought this CD with thos tracks on it I might not have been a TA today!!

On the New

WILD TRACKS FOR SUMMER 2003 WOOT!

there are a few mad tracks!

Jurgan Vries - The Theme
Kosheen - Hungary - Tiesto Edit
Timo Maas - To Get Down
Paul Oakenfold - Southern Sun
Solid Sessions - Janeiro - Armin Van Buuren Remix

and of course our old fav

Scooter - The Logical Song

But I hate all those Compilations like "TRANCE CENTRAL, MEGA DANCE TRANCE CHEESE IN THIS CD"

Because it mostly gives trance a bad name!

Anyway this is my 2 bob

Posted by webmeister on Nov-27-2002 09:57:

See matt the trouble with that Wild cd is that there's 5 quality tracks and then ~20 tracks worth of cheesy crap

Posted by djkeenetik on Nov-27-2002 15:46:

quote:
Originally posted by webmeister
See matt the trouble with that Wild cd is that there's 5 quality tracks and then ~20 tracks worth of cheesy crap

good point webmeister, they pretty much shoot themselves in the foot with those crappy 20 trakcs likes Scooter...and also all radio edit which means it misses out on those Wonderful PEAKS AND TROUGHS that are chareteristic of TRANCE tracks thus they are all 3 to 4 minutes long( or should i say short)