Define PROGRESSIVE Trance? What the HELL is it? How is it different?

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Posted by Dj Smitty20 on Nov-19-2002 19:24:

Define PROGRESSIVE Trance? What the HELL is it? How is it different?

Ok, Tiesto won that Ibiza award awhile ago for best progressive Dj and he has said that he spins "warm, uplfiting, progressive tech trance" in that Q and A he did on his site two months ago.

I know what techtrance is (Flight 643) and I certainly know what uplifting and melodic trance is because that's what got me into trance in the first place.

But what is progressive trance.....can anyone define it for me? Is it trance that builds and builds until it gets bigger and bigger? (that sounds like the older trance). I've heard that progressive is more based on rhythm rather than beats and buildups...is that true?

Anyway, thanks for the help and if anybody can give me some geat tracks of progressive trance, that would really help.

P.S. I know a lot of trance tunes and I love many of the different sounds in trance....but I, like many others, have trouble defining progressive trance. Too many sub-genres in trance these days.

Posted by Raptor on Nov-19-2002 20:23:

search the same topic there has been many people asking the same question.

Posted by netw3rkd on Nov-19-2002 20:27:

Well...heres my definition.

Epic, uplifting trance = shit and boring now

Progressive trance = teh best ! :PPPP~~~

If you can't find the difference between epic trance and progressive.....

Posted by Dj Smitty20 on Nov-19-2002 20:56:

pffffffft.....uplifting trance is the best stuff.

Just because it's older does not mean it sucks now. God, some people's attention spans are so short in length.

Posted by Cobalt on Nov-19-2002 21:24:

Progressive Trance!

Progressive trance is my favorite breed of electronica. The genre includes tracks that are too progressive to be labeled trance, too melodic to be progressive house, and too deep to classify as tech-trance.

Here are some artists that I feel exemplify the progressive trance style:

Tilt
Natious
Mara
Space Manoeuvres
James Holden
Junkie XL
Breeder
Three Drives
Cass & Slide
Way Out West

For DJs, look no further than Christopher Lawrence.
Others include John OO Flemming, Nick Warren, Max Graham, and D:Fuse.
Sasha mainly had this style in his late 99 - early 2000 days, too. Look for some of his earlier sets. Dave Seaman started out pretty progressive-trance too, but one look at GU Melbourne will indicate he doesn't really spin that anymore.

Glad you asked.

Posted by Eu4ea on Nov-20-2002 01:23:

Posted by Raptor on Nov-20-2002 01:57:

he said define it...

just think LAYERS LAYERS LAYERS LAYERS

Posted by trance_is_it on Nov-20-2002 02:21:

I know what the difference is but I can't explain it anymore difference than many people have already did, what I do want to say is that, pay no attention to bias people who thinks that ******* is shitty,sucks,boring,crap etc, or if #*#*#* is the best,kicks ass,great,#1 etc, why don't these people just listen to what they like and leave it at that, instead of putting down other styles any change they get for any good reasons, it's just very childish, if we all do this we would be arguing all the time about what style is better and what's not, instead of talking about what's a good or bad Dj/producers/songs with good reasons and not with bias opinions.

Posted by escee on Nov-20-2002 03:44:

I agree there are too many subgenres in trance. Whats the difference between uplifting and melodic? i mean, besides that one has happy melodies were as the other might not.

I also disagree that tiesto plays progressive (just because Nothing Mix 2 as well as a few others were in playlist for a while doesnt mean he plays progressive). John Digweed, Sasha, Sander Klienenberg, Chris Fortier, they play progressive, not Tiesto. If you want to know what progressive is download some songs or mixers by these artists.

Posted by nennon on Nov-20-2002 04:41:

Good lord..

Ahh not this crap again..

We had a discussion on another forum about this.. There is no such thing as Progressive Trance, at least that label is COMPLETELY WRONG for the people Cobalt listed above. Either you're denying that you like progressive HOUSE, or you are just misinformed. Ask Mara what they call their music, and you won't get a word "trance" anywhere NEAR their reply.

And what's this about "progressive trance being more melodic than house".. are you nuts? You're separating the genre into melodic and non-melodic and assigning different labels to it? If a song sounds like Xpander, its "progressive trance" just because it has melody?

Trance is trance, progressive house is progressive house.. Don't mix the two together, and try to understand that they are DIFFERENT - the vibe, the BPM, the people who produce it are very different. I don't consider anything to be trance if it's below 132 bpm. Simple as that, trance is defined by it's speed more than its synths, melodies, or anything else.

If you're gonna start a new genre, at least label the artists properly. James Holden is not a trance producer :-P

Posted by amit on Nov-20-2002 04:49:

THERES NO THING CALLED PROGRESSIVE TRANCE!!!!!! IF IT SOUNDS TRANCY ITS NOT TRANCE. IF IT HAS MELODY ITS NOT MELODIC TRANCE!

sorry...i had 2 explode!

Posted by nennon on Nov-20-2002 04:51:

Here's a challenge for you, name one trance song or remix under 132 bpm. As I told Amit, there are some 130's that come close, but even they are progressive HOUSE, not any sub-genre of trance.

I can't believe you guys listen to this music, and can't even label it properly.

Posted by amit on Nov-20-2002 04:52:

james holden-nothing @ +4...haha thats PROGRESSIVE TRANCE...ummm NO

Posted by Kimmi on Nov-20-2002 04:59:

There are WAY too many sub-genres...agreed. And...as we can see...most people can't even define or agree on what half of them are.

Keep it simple

Posted by nennon on Nov-20-2002 05:03:

Well, here's the official classification of genres, as used by practically everyone:

house, garage, techno, trance, drum & bass, hardcore, breakbeat/hip hop/funk, downtempo/leftfield

There you go. That's as simple as it gets, so stick to that.. Next person to claim that a house song is "Progressive Trance" will get smacked with a copy of "Feel the beat" on vinyl

Posted by Halcyon21 on Nov-20-2002 05:06:

simplest way to do it is listen to what u like and to hell with the genre or subgenre

Posted by Great Outdoors on Nov-20-2002 11:16:

quote:
Originally posted by Cobalt
Progressive Trance!

Progressive trance is my favorite breed of electronica. The genre includes tracks that are too progressive to be labeled trance, too melodic to be progressive house, and too deep to classify as tech-trance.

Here are some artists that I feel exemplify the progressive trance style:

Tilt
Natious
Mara
Space Manoeuvres
James Holden
Junkie XL
Breeder
Three Drives
Cass & Slide
Way Out West

For DJs, look no further than Christopher Lawrence.
Others include John OO Flemming, Nick Warren, Max Graham, and D:Fuse.
Sasha mainly had this style in his late 99 - early 2000 days, too. Look for some of his earlier sets. Dave Seaman started out pretty progressive-trance too, but one look at GU Melbourne will indicate he doesn't really spin that anymore.

Glad you asked.

Ahh.. I see you got flamed. Good news is, I'm in with you on this one! There IS such a thing as progressive trance, dont deny it guys. It's a hybrid between uplifting, melodic trance(I dont diferentiate between the two) and progressive house. It's really prog, actually- it layers and layers and layers. But it's not progressive house either because the latter doesn't have the least hint of a climax, even if they do the climax just generally involves 16 or 32 beats of cut basslines followed by the re-introduction of bass thereafter- a mini-climax, if you will. Prog trance climaxes with MELODY. I know I'm being a jerk by being so specific but I'm just trying to illustrate the fact that there IS such a genre. It's a hybrid. Sasha used to play it in late 1999 and early 2000, no doubt about it. And please listen to Noel Sanger- this guy personifies prog trance.
You want examples?

Uplifting/melodic trance- Sky Falls Down, Ligaya
Progressive house- Latoro- Electric Sky (Lexicon Avenue dub) <-- the best example of this genre I can find. Download it and find out.
Progressive trance- Dave Swayze- Yasmine's Garden, Yunus- Red Pilot, Sasha- Ohmna.

Lastly, it's not how fast the track is played, it's how the track is structured.

Flame away, people!

Posted by Great Outdoors on Nov-20-2002 11:19:

"Simple as that, trance is defined by it's speed more than its synths, melodies, or anything else". I really don't think so, dude.. Robert Miles' Children sounds best played slow.. is that progressive house?

Posted by Cobalt on Nov-20-2002 15:26:

quote:
Originally posted by Great Outdoors
Ahh.. I see you got flamed. Good news is, I'm in with you on this one!

Thanks! Yes, you understand what I'm referring to.

I'm a bit surprised by some of the reactions here. You'd think it was the GU board.

Posted by Halcyon21 on Nov-20-2002 17:47:

good point on the gu board those guys are the most anal retentive ppl ive ever seen post on a board

Posted by dark_tenshi on Nov-20-2002 20:02:

Re: Good lord..

quote:
Originally posted by nennon

Trance is trance, progressive house is progressive house.. Don't mix the two together, and try to understand that they are DIFFERENT - the vibe, the BPM, the people who produce it are very different. I don't consider anything to be trance if it's below 132 bpm. Simple as that, trance is defined by it's speed more than its synths, melodies, or anything else.

How is anything under 132 BPM not trance? If you think speed is more important the electronic synthesized melodies, then you probably don't know what real trance is. But then, what the hell is real trance? Everybody's definition of trance is different nowadays. One person's real trance could be another person's cheese.

When tons and tons of trance songs became formulaic and cookie cutter songs started to stagnate the scene, a lot of producers started to produce something different, something that takes the percussive rhythms of house music combined with the electronic synthesized melodies of trance music and fuse them together. These producers wanted the music to always evolve, thus, the term Progressive was introduced.

quote:

If you're gonna start a new genre, at least label the artists properly. James Holden is not a trance producer :-P

No, I wouldn't call Holden a trance producer because his productions not only represent the beautiful synths of trance, but also the percussive baselines of house.

Posted by nennon on Nov-21-2002 05:26:

LOL @ the GU board comment..

Is it really that obvious that I post there? Yunus/Holden productions, as I will once again point out, are NOT trance.. House was categorized by melody long before trance even existed.

A song having melodic synths in it, as well as a climax doesn't automatically make it a trance song.. You're confusing the emotional and technical differences between the two genres. House can be just as climatic as trance, but there are *technical* differences that separate the two genres.

Posted by Bedrock on Nov-21-2002 05:45:

there is such a thing as uplifting melodic progressive house, however, please don't mistake this as progressive trance. you people who thing James Holden - Nothing is trance, you are wrong, just coz its not deep and dark, doesn't mean its not prog house and therefore trance...

prog trance has trancey synths, hence it has trance in its name, if its just an uplifting melody or fairly minimal, its in most cases prog house

Posted by speedracer_mec on Nov-21-2002 06:24:

progressive addicts..will say there is no such thing..as progtrance

those who have been converted from trance to progressive...will label everything progressive with either a trance suffix or prefix

sad but true

Posted by Mr.Mystery on Nov-21-2002 07:05:

quote:
Originally posted by Cobalt
Progressive Trance!

Junkie XL

Only his new stuff - his older material is more in the breaks area...

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