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Big Brother in America

It is really scary to see whats happening down south of the border, thanks to the scare 9/11 brought to the American people its become quite easy for the Bush administration to give police and government organizations frightening powers to invade its citizens privacy.

What scares me the most is how little opposition there has been to these acts, like the patriot act for example... I fear too much patriotism and the drums of war are being used to focus the peoples attention away from these sersiously disturbing trends.

Here's a new one that blew my mind, what happened to citizens freaking out about this? It seems nobody even reports this stuff anymore on mass media... Where is Bill Maher when you need him

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70992,00.html

Oh, also some good reading on why the Patriot act is so damn scary:

http://www.ccr-ny.org/whatsnew/usa_patriot_act.asp

Re: Big Brother in America

quote:

Originally posted by Thor http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70992,00.html

i dont know whats so scary about that at all, im actually for it... there is always a debate between privacy and safety, usually i tend to lean towards safety because i feel the my life is more important then my privacy.

quote:

Aldridge said the database, which he called another "tool" in the war on terror, would look for telltale signs of suspicious consumer behavior. Examples he cited were: sudden and large cash withdrawals, one-way air or rail travel, rental car transactions and purchases of firearms, chemicals or agents that could be used to produce biological or chemical weapons. It would also combine consumer information with visa records, passports, arrest records or reports of suspicious activity given to law enforcement or intelligence services.

im suprised this was never done before... especially after the tim McViegh inccedent.

furthermore what kind of invasion of privacy is there really to invade? when you get arrested those records should be open to the public (as part of the punishment). when you buy something how private is that really? its a purchase between one person and usaully a group of people (ie a store), if you want there are many easy ways to keep transactions private, so i dont really see what the fuss is about.


ps. ya i miss bill maher too

Read the patriot act, find out about the software the FBI is using to gather information online on all your habits.

The government has unsurpassed powers available to them, they can hold people for questioning without explanation upto a certain time... They can wire tap people without warrants...

Its gotten really bad, and I'm sorry to say but life is not without risks; allowing the government to compile detailed information on each citizen and tracking their habits is way out of line.

Do you feel then we should have tracking devices installed on each citizen so the government can "protect" you??

Don't let them pull the wool over your eyes, they say this is all in the need for safety, but what it truly is, is that its all about invading your rights and abusing the bill of rights.

If this was the 60's we'd have huge marches all over the US, but its the new millenium and we are all too busy playing on PS2 and not being concerned with these things..

Apathy in today's society is at an all time high, thanks to people who don't pay attention to this you are slowly losing your privacy and rights..

Just read a bit more on the patriot act and see if you might look at it differently.... This purchase tracking system can also be easily abused by the government.

Some must read stuff if you are curious about this:

Activism against the government invading your privacy.
http://www.workingforchange.com/act...fm?ItemId=14094

ACLU
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFreeMain.cfm

quote:

Originally posted by Thor ... They can wire tap people without warrants...

see that honestly doesnt even bother me. maybe its because im from israel and there they wire-tap almost every phone conversation. they even cut me off once when i was talking to my friend in the army and he started to talk about his APC. anyways i guess im used to it, and now it doesnt bother me at all. i learned that it in no way influences my life other then to provide me greater safety. furthermore there is no real need to get worked about this until the government abuses that power. when that happens, trust me there will be a huge uproar.
if you arent guilty of anything you've got nothing to be afraid of

btw i've still yet to read the patriot act... and the second link wasnt working for me so i havent read it either

quote:

Originally posted by Thor Some must read stuff if you are curious about this: Activism against the government invading your privacy. http://www.workingforchange.com/act...fm?ItemId=14094 ACLU http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFreeMain.cfm

im not a big fan of the ACLU at all... i do think its honorable they exsist and keeps governments and issues at check but some of the stuff they defend is way out there.

anyways this whole privacy thing is over-rated, maybe its just my personal view but what the f*ck do i care if the government knows my grades or saw that i bought 5$ boxers at walmart, i've got nothing to hide.

what is scary about all of this? do you think there is some underground conspiracy that the goverment wants to arrest anyone who does not have christian beliefs or anyone who buys products from ikea or how about the ultimate plan to get rid of those males who buy female clothe what does the government care if they over hear a phone conversation about some affiar you're having with an ex-girlfriedn.

Do me a favor, take this quiz:

http://www.aclu.org/Quizzes/QuizIntro.cfm?ID=4

You may be used to those things in Israel, but they are under a state of war at almost all times.... A land like the US is supposed to be about freedom, rights, etc....

Whats happening is that one terrorist attack has turned this country that is proud of their freedoms/rights, to a country that lets fear rule them and doesn't even fight back when something as outrageous as the patriot act is allowed to pass.

Its a dark time for the USA, I wish more Americans could see it.. I'd love to come down and protest with people who get the guts to do something.

Although after reading the powers the government has now, I'd be afraid to say anything against the US government these days.

OH, and check this out, a well written paper on the Patriot Act:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum14&Number=1072675&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

taking quiz now. hehe

Take particular note about the old nun who can't fly now..

Crazy stuff

question 1 - lame, im proud of my body

question 2 - sad, but if coming from an executive order (ie president) i doubt we're talking about some shmuck lawyer case but rather broad sensitive sunjects that have impact over you and I

question 3 - lame, every group should be subject to the same laws equally, duh why should one group be allowed to murder and another cant?

question 4 - dont see the point in this one, even though im not an ashcroft fan, yes you are born with these rights (human dignity and freedom) he has religious beliefs (a god given right) i belive its an inherent right of humanity, we're saying the same thing

question 5 - thats a reason i dont like ashcroft, though i feel that quote was taken out of context

question 6 - another one i could care less about... snoop all you want, everyone should be suspicious of suspicious behaviour. its common sense. if i was a mail man i would be wary of anyone who subscribed to al-jeezera magazine and ordered some recert chem stuff from an online shop (dont take literarly, just an example)

question 7 - got me there, sad indeed, but hey i bet everyone of them went home afterwards aqcuited of everything with no formal charges put forth. but ya definitley an over-raction after 9/11 (is this still happening now? i would doubt it)

question 8 - this is old, its been known for couple years that some books are tagged and alerted to the government when they are checked out... such as 'how to make a pipe-bomb' what good is learning to make a pipe bomb really going to do. but agian see if i care about the government knowing i read the 'communist manifesto' or 'rocco the suave lover of italy'

question 9 - thats a major foul, scary kind of. but i am suspect as to under what conditions and circumstances this can happen and so forth... not enough info there to let me form an opinion.

question 10 - lame... how do they know that nun was really a nun, palestinians have dressed themselves as women and even IDF soldiers, one cant be to careful. agian safety vs privacy. i'm willing to wait an extra 5 minutes in line to make sure everyone on board is not going to try to highjack a plane (as recently almost happened to el-al flight going to turkey)

Mmm, an example is when they stop you and ask you for every single document, social security and green card, and make you look like a criminal with no reason, just because of the Inmigration System using the POLICE to look for terrorist, which in my opinion is sooo wrong ! ... its not cool at all.

i have to disagree with you there too...
america has every right to not let anyone they want into their own country, for any reason. if you're not a citizen of the US you are not born with a right "i have the right be in the US"
trust me i go through the same paperwork as you (maybe mine is even worse becuase i have a student visa). i dont look at it as being made out to look like a criminal but rather an check to see if i am allowed to enter the US or not. if feel this hindrence is nessicary for the secuirty of the american people.

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy i have to disagree with you there too... america has every right to not let anyone they want into their own country, for any reason. if you're not a citizen of the US you are not born with a right "i have the right be in the US" trust me i go through the same paperwork as you (maybe mine is even worse becuase i have a student visa). i dont look at it as being made out to look like a criminal but rather an check to see if i am allowed to enter the US or not. if feel this hindrence is nessicary for the secuirty of the american people.

IM not talking about enering, Im talking for when you get stopped on them middle of the highway to just make a CHECK.

woah, ya that would suck balls, never happened to me and didnt know that was happening else were.

but that brings up another issue, here a cop cant pull you over without you committing a wrong. i think thats stupid. agian, in israel (for various reasons) a cop can pull over whom ever he pleases and for no apparent reason. usually this is done by just cops sitting on the side of the road and waving one car to pull over, they then check driver's liscence, car insurance and check for any warrants of arrest. i think thats a pretty cool system... other then the occaisonal hindrence of being pulled over, you get the benifets of having lower car insurance. its a big problem here in texas with all the non-insured drives. just think how it would ease that problem if people got randomly checked for insurance, people would then be caught for this (even if they are perfet drivers) and so wouldnt be stupid and drive without it. also it helps put in jail those who already should be there (those with warrants for thier arrests).

Mmmm I would go for it, only if the police guys were friendly, and wont stop me on my way to school .. running late, and them caringless. It was a random check, which they have permission to,they were stoping several cars, but the reason was to check for I dont know...just to check I guess. They even made everyone been stopped get out of the car and so on, they were so rude, they were in pare with Inmigration or something, I dont like that mixing of Police with Inmigration. but w/e .

Its simply a matter of this; the US government can enter your house without a warrant, they can hold you without telling you why until later; they can snoop in on a lawyer/client conversation!

Izzy I don't want to sound harsh, you know I like ya man; but this kind of attitude you have is what communist Russia would love..

Think about it, the power that the US government and its agencies has now is nothing short of a police state. I will try to find the article I read that actually compared police powers in Nazi Germany to what the US police powers are today.

Why defend a government that is 'sneaking' by legislation at a time when a country is vulnerable and filled with fear? Do we hear discussion about this? No, its all being done because no polititian is willing to say anything that would sound like they are not 100% supporting the war on terrorism... Its that fear and the fear that they will be ridiculed on CNN for saying anything against the government line

This is the state in the US today, dissent is almost becoming a crime.. With the patriot act they can now investigate you for going to a peace rally! I mean they have full power to look into my computer; do a phone tap, etc.. Just because I attended a peace rally.

The abuse this is causing is major, just ask any Canadian about the ridiculous clampdown on Canadian citizens entering the US.

You can't stop terrorism from happening, no matter how hard you try, one person can always do damage.. Look at Timothy McVey.

You can do your best to stop it without turning into a police state, and thats all that people are asking be done that oppose this ludicrous Patriot Act.

What's next? They build a wall of america around its borders? Ban entry into the US.. Put trackers on all citizens, and why not have cameras in every house to monitor people? I know this is all silly, but the US is walking down a road that is quite frightening. How far are you willing to remove personal freedoms and privacy in order to make your country safer?

That question should be carefully thought out by each US citizen, because right now your rights are less important to government than anyone has ever imagined possible in the land of the free.

Oh and one more thing, the Israeli's are masters of dealing with terrorists, but are they able to stop it either? Hell no, its impossible to stop, you absolutely can not stop it if there are individuals willing to kill for their cause or be killed. So all those phone tappings are not stopping it from happening, lessening it of course, but it could never stop it completely.

We can't live in a prison, and worse be expected to have the rights of prisoners.. Patriot act has to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Thor Izzy I don't want to sound harsh, you know I like ya man;

dont worry buddy, i respect your views and completely understand where you are coming from... as i said its probably just me not caring to much about my privacy. i dont hold my privacy to much value. as i said, i could care less if someone knows about my behaviuor, what good is it going to do them. actually maybe some good, maybe by tracking my spending behaviour they can create a accurate model for consumer spending and thus help an economy during recession (im way out there i konw). maybe a nazi or communist government will like poeple with my views but until i feel (personally) this breach of privacy hasnt been abused (such as were the cases in the previous two governments) then i really dont care (maybe i should). but ya im all for checks and balances such as the ACLU and the voice of the people to keep the government from overstepping its jurisdiction.

ps. some of the things you said in your last post are so bill maher'ish, aww those were the good days of TV. i hear he's on tour now, wish he would stop by my university.

He's on tour?? Well I'm going to find out if he's coming anywhere near me

Its really too bad he's gone, honestly it was the one shining light of a sane voice on US based media.

Well there's Michael Moore too, but his TV shows never lasted; thankfully he has his movies... Have you seen Bowling for Columbine yet? I hear its excellent.

http://www.billmaher.com/

well the only good thing that could possibly come from all this is,

if the US govt starts keeping tabs on everyone all the time, maybe voter registration will go away and more people will show up to vote!


not sure tho|

Why do we so desperately want to build a society where everyone lives until they're 90 and dies in their sleep, where everyone has a good job and a nice family and spend their lives just accumulating stuff to pass the time until they die?

What are we trying to accomplish?

Bad things have to happen, or else we wouldn't be able to appreciate the good things in life. Giving up our privacy and our freedom in a futile quest to stop bad things from happening when bad things are still necessary for happiness is the most retarded course of action I could possibly imagine. It would be more rationally justifiable to commit mass suicide.

police doing stuff(wiretap, aresstation, searches etc etc) without a warrant is completley wrong simply because it makes you automatically guilty.

Normally, for them to get a warrant, they need to prove a judge that you might be a risk to society, etc etc

The law system in north america grants anyone of being innocent until proven he is not and that without a doubt...

Izzy think about saying something silly on the phone and they automatically arrest you for it...

is it harder to prove yourself innocent by shading doubts over your guiltyness...

or for you to be automatically guilty and then prove them you are innocent without a doubt?

think about it.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet...page_temp/4/4/5

Another text published today with a canadian perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy see that honestly doesnt even bother me. maybe its because im from israel and there they wire-tap almost every phone conversation. they even cut me off once when i was talking to my friend in the army and he started to talk about his APC.

Okay, that's just a little bit freaky.

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