TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Europe - United Kingdom & Ireland
-- Cockney for foreigners
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Cockney for foreigners

It's so ironic: We study English at school during 5 years and then, when we hear you guys talking (specially the Londonians) we find out that the English we learned is spoken only on CNN For example... there's this British TV show that I like to watch called "As if" and I realised that without the subtitles, it's really hard to understand some of the stuff they say. Also, I have don't understanding many things Chris Liberator says in his tunes (What does "it's f*cking ave it ere" mean!?)... this "alternative" English sounds a lot cooler, so I'd like some tips on it. For example, when should I ignore the consonants (such as "h" and "t") and stuff like that

here's a useful page of cockney rhyming slang to confuse you

http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/rc...ockney_faq.html

It aint sumfing u can learn as such, u just pick it up.

U haf to hang around us

aye an thats rite am ****ed out ma face so get ower it!

innit

YOU SLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG

Ere ave some more you facking cant! Arm the facking daddy arand ere and we'll ave none of that lark in mar facking Manor! Oi where do u think yor going lav! get down the apple and pears and make me a cuppa and a sausage sarnie with braaan sauce, you facking wot! shut your North and South mate I'll facking ave you for that arm the facking guverner arand ere not you sonny jim! alright John nice new motor there you seen Verns missus she's a right slapper!

The UK has an incredible amount of accent variation. Look at the size of us compared to somewhere like North America, and we easily have more accents/dialects. The reason is probably because we have had thousands of years to form this language of ours, and in that time we have formed many individual eccentricities in our language which in some parts of the UK vary from town to town. The Americans on the other hand were all Europeans who flocked to the states and needed to adopt a common language, so they used English. Since then, they've had barely a couple of hundred years to establish variations. Sure Texans and New Yorkers might sound different, but I've never met an American I can't understand, and those places are like a thousand miles apart! I've met Scousers, Glaswegians, Cockneys, and even people from my own area (Geordies) that I don't understand! And they are all only a few hours drive away at the most.

Just like you, I can't understand cockney rhyming slang either. If someone asked me for the Duke of Kent, I'd be like WTF? Yet according to goldenarmZ' link it means "rent". You have to be a cockney to understand that basically. If you watch the movie "lock stock and two smoking barrels" (a great British film, I recommend it as one of my all-time favourites) they use subtitles for the dialogue in an East London pub because it's impossible to understand

I'm quite used to toning down my accent quite considerably, because I simply wouldn't survive in London let alone abroad if I spoke to everyone in thick geordie dialect. I learnt this the hard way on my first trip to London, even buying a bag of chips was an aural ordeal! I also had an American girl once ask me if I speak English when I tried to give her directions in London. That was when I realised I really need to turn it down. I can make myself understood to foreigners no problem but it's quite tiresome!

If you want some British translations, here are some useful sites on the net:

London, South-East England
http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/rc...ockney_faq.html - the language of the "Cockneys", wide-mouthed geezers from London with a very thick accent. Cockney rhyming slang, as it is known. You'll mainly only hear this sort of thing in the East end of London I think. In East London they hate nerdy words like "cop", they use words like "the filth". Londoners cannot say the letter R, it becomes a letter W, and clean (not rude) language is a physical impossibility. Ask a Londoner to say 'horrorist' and it produces funny results! People from one end of London think the other end is the other side of the world.

Newcastle (known as 'the toon'), North-East England
http://www.geordiepride.demon.co.uk/dictionary.htm - the language of the "Geordies", a bizzarre people from the North, weened on Newcastle Brown Ale and always up for a fight. Newcastle is an isolated city by British standards, and the North of England has been kind of shat on in history from both the North (the bloody Scots who we fought off for centuries, and who now get more money thn England!) and the South (who have traditionally neglected the hard-working North of England which made this country industrially so mighty). So there exists a kind of North/South divide in England. Some historians suggest the geordie dialect comes from an old form of Scandinavian. We were invaded by the Vikings (who were barbarians from Norway, maybe that explains why people here can't feel the cold) and they brought with them an odd dialect which Newcastle never really progressed from. Some people reckon thats a load of bollocks though!

Liverpool, Mid-West England
www.whoohoo.co.uk - the language of the "Scousers". These people will nick all of your money, your clothes, your possessions, kick you in, and to add insult to injury, they'll waddle off like penguins with it all! This has some Welsh influences (the Welsh language, by the way, is virtually allergic to vowels!). Like the Scots, they have difficulty with the letter R, it becomes a bit like an L.


There are loads more in England, Scotland and Ireland but I can't be arsed to explain them all.

Visit www.whoohoo.co.uk it is adialect translator, it covers all kinds of British accents, and has now added some Irish ones too. It's a great site, but translators don't work very well for obvious reasons, just like English - Spanish translators. In geordie, for example, much of our word construction is different and it's very difficult to keep up to date with British slang which changes all the time. It's got to be one of the best sites out there though.

Re: Cockney for foreigners

quote:

Originally posted by Maaz Also, I have don't understanding many things Chris Liberator says in his tunes (What does "it's f*cking ave it ere" mean!?)... this "alternative" English sounds a lot cooler, so I'd like some tips on it. For example, when should I ignore the consonants (such as "h" and "t") and stuff like that

I forgot to answer this question:

Chris Liberator actually said "acid techno, it's not from Detroit and it' not intelligent, but it's fucking having it!", which basically means he's saying Acid Techno is awesome. Cockneys would pronounce this "it's fackin evin it". The E in 'evin' being like the E in 'egg'. Cockneys say "fackin'" very loudly and their accent is very thick, noone else can do it the same In Newcastle we say sort of "fookin'" but it's not quite like that, it's very difficult to put into letters.

If you want to speak like a cockney, you need to learn a lot of the dialect, but the accent is quite easy. Cockneys are known for being wide-mouthed because they have a noisy, thick accent. So if you open your mouth bigger than usual when you speak, and practise exchanging R with W that's a starter. The letter L is sometimes like "oo" or "oow" but it's hard to explain. The letter T is often a silent letter in cockney, you just leave a little pause.

Here's an example of how they would say "bottle" - "bah-ew". The "ah" s very fast and the '-' is a tiny pause and the "ew" is a bit like "oo".


If you want to hear cockney at it's finest, you must watch this film, it's one of the best films ever, as I'm sure other UKTA's will agree:

Wow, thanks for the info By the wa, that "woohoo" page is class (and the rhyming thing is very entertaining... and confusing ) So, cockneys would pronounce "right" as if it were "white"? That's weally weird And I read once that you guys think that it's funny when foreigners pronounce "which" and "witch" the same way... but what's the difference? Also, what does "to be arsed" mean?

I hope you guys don't mind I'm asking all this stuff

An' of couss, yams gotta consider us from dat west midlands with ar own unique dialect an' accent. If yam knew a brummie, you'll knoo where wim comin from.

'be arsed' v. intr.
To take the trouble; concern oneself.

As in "I couldn't be arsed to go to work today, because I caned it all weekend."

Translates as "I couldn't be bothered to go to work today, because I caned it all weekend."

quote:

Originally posted by Maaz And I read once that you guys think that it's funny when foreigners pronounce "which" and "witch" the same way... but what's the difference?

I thought we also pronounced which and witch the same way.

quote:

Originally posted by WillEastbury I thought we also pronounced which and witch the same way.

I can't be arsed to search for the magazine where I read about it (did I get it right? ) It was a long time ago and I think that the writer didn't know what he was writing about then

quote:

Originally posted by Maaz Wow, thanks for the info By the wa, that "woohoo" page is class (and the rhyming thing is very entertaining... and confusing ) So, cockneys would pronounce "right" as if it were "white"? That's weally weird And I read once that you guys think that it's funny when foreigners pronounce "which" and "witch" the same way... but what's the difference? Also, what does "to be arsed" mean? I hope you guys don't mind I'm asking all this stuff

Erm, it's hard to explain A cockney would pronounce "right" with an R because it is the first letter of the word but it does sound kind of like a W if you can imagine a letter half way between R and W! But usually he says it as a W, for example "orwwaryt" or "orwoight" would mean "alright", which people often say in the UK just to mean hello if they pass a friend in the street ("alright?" or "y'alright?", except in Newcastle we say "yaa'reet?" but that's something else entirely). Also, instead of saying "I" they often say "oi" or "ary", it's difficult to spell but you get the idea. So it would be "roight". But again, even that is technically not correct! Because a cockney often misses the T off the end of the word, you just make an "uh" noise at the back of your throat.

So to summarise:

'R' becomes 'W'. Examples: "alright" becomes "orwwoight". "Try" becomes "twoi" or "twahy". But not always, there are some words where it is inconvenient to say it as a W. For example try saying "toronto" with a W. It just doesn't sound right and is hard to say, so cockneys, being laid back (lazy bastards) say it as R as it's easier. If you watch a few British movies with cockneys in you will see these patterns easily.

'L' is often a 'W' too. For example "ball" becomes "borww" or "buww". Again, this is not always the case. Try saying "playing" or "Alaska" with a W. It doesn't sound right and is hard to say, so cockneys say it properly because they have no other choice

'T' if at the end of the word becomes an "uh" sound at the back of your throat to 'close' the word. Some cockneys are really annoying with this, even a short word like "art" they will just make a lazy "uh" noise at the throat for a T! It does on other occasions too, like in "bottle" the T's with some cockneys are just a lazy throat noise. Imagine making a noise with your mouth with the least effort possible, and it will probably be an "uh" sound.

'A', like the A in "cat" is often an 'E' like in "egg". A cockney would call a "cat" a "cet", but they wouldn't say the T, just a throat noise. Sometiems it isn't 'E' but 'air' which sounds very similar. For example "slag" would be "slairg" in cockney, but if someone said it very quickly it would be "sleg" (that's a word they use very often btw. In case you don't know it means whore).


All I can suggest is watch some movies. The British movie industry isn't anything like as big as the US movie industry obviously (in the UK a "movie" is called a "film"). However, we have some awesome films out there, and since most are made in London, the south-East England accent is most commonly found in films, which is a very mild form of cockney. Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels is not only an amazing film, but is crammed with several variations of cockney accent. By the end of that film you should be able to immitate an East London gangster quite easily, although I find it quite funny a Brazilian trying to speak cockney Portugese is considered here to be a flambuoyant and sexy language, cockney is an accent used by gangsters and geezaz!

Oh and yes, your use of "I can't be arsed" is correct. Some very posh people still say "which" with the W in front of the H "hwich", but "witch" and "which" sound the same to everybody.

watch byker grove to hear some mackems

True, byker grove is full of mackems. It's a disgrace given Byker is in the toon. When I was at South Tyneside College in S.Shields one of the lads from Byker Grove was there, the prick in the wheelchair. He was a mackem as well.

the castle aint even in byker lol, and people randomly just "take a walk" to the angel which is like 15 miles from newcastle city centre

I haven't watched it in years so I can't say I've noticed. Do they take a casual stroll from Byker to see the Angel lol.

People make such a big deal of the angel. It's rubbish. Another thing I've noticed is that when people come to the North East the best thing they want to check out is the Metro Centre! I think that sums us up as an area really!

I'm actually a proper cockney (was born in the East End of London) but moved to North London at an early age so missed out on the accent and dialect A couple of my cousins have very strong cockney accents and use a lot of the dialect too, luckily I understand most of it having grown up in London.

Still nowhere near as bad a the shite they speak up here in the North though, COB? IT'S A FUCKING BAP YOU UNCULTURED MUPPETS!!

quote:

Originally posted by Spad COB? IT'S A FUCKING BAP YOU UNCULTURED MUPPETS!!

COB

I so pissed myself when I first got into this country.
I found that South Africans (english ones, not afrikaans) spoke clearer and more fluent english than londoners.

Watching Eastenders and hearing ppl say 'Nuffink' had me in stitches

The thing is, my mom is from Yorkshire, she went to SA when she was 15 and hardly has any accent, so I got an ancestral visa, but SA's dont think I sound very SA and UK ppl dont think I sound very UK.

LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by evil_bastard The UK has an incredible amount of accent variation. Look at the size of us compared to somewhere like North America, and we easily have more accents/dialects. The reason is probably because we have had thousands of years to form this language of ours, and in that time we have formed many individual eccentricities in our language which in some parts of the UK vary from town to town. The Americans on the other hand were all Europeans who flocked to the states and needed to adopt a common language, so they used English. Since then, they've had barely a couple of hundred years to establish variations. Sure Texans and New Yorkers might sound different, but I've never met an American I can't understand, and those places are like a thousand miles apart! I've met Scousers, Glaswegians, Cockneys, and even people from my own area (Geordies) that I don't understand! And they are all only a few hours drive away at the most. Just like you, I can't understand cockney rhyming slang either. If someone asked me for the Duke of Kent, I'd be like WTF? Yet according to goldenarmZ' link it means "rent". You have to be a cockney to understand that basically. If you watch the movie "lock stock and two smoking barrels" (a great British film, I recommend it as one of my all-time favourites) they use subtitles for the dialogue in an East London pub because it's impossible to understand I'm quite used to toning down my accent quite considerably, because I simply wouldn't survive in London let alone abroad if I spoke to everyone in thick geordie dialect. I learnt this the hard way on my first trip to London, even buying a bag of chips was an aural ordeal! I also had an American girl once ask me if I speak English when I tried to give her directions in London. That was when I realised I really need to turn it down. I can make myself understood to foreigners no problem but it's quite tiresome! If you want some British translations, here are some useful sites on the net: London, South-East England http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/rc...ockney_faq.html - the language of the "Cockneys", wide-mouthed geezers from London with a very thick accent. Cockney rhyming slang, as it is known. You'll mainly only hear this sort of thing in the East end of London I think. In East London they hate nerdy words like "cop", they use words like "the filth". Londoners cannot say the letter R, it becomes a letter W, and clean (not rude) language is a physical impossibility. Ask a Londoner to say 'horrorist' and it produces funny results! People from one end of London think the other end is the other side of the world. Newcastle (known as 'the toon'), North-East England http://www.geordiepride.demon.co.uk/dictionary.htm - the language of the "Geordies", a bizzarre people from the North, weened on Newcastle Brown Ale and always up for a fight. Newcastle is an isolated city by British standards, and the North of England has been kind of shat on in history from both the North (the bloody Scots who we fought off for centuries, and who now get more money thn England!) and the South (who have traditionally neglected the hard-working North of England which made this country industrially so mighty). So there exists a kind of North/South divide in England. Some historians suggest the geordie dialect comes from an old form of Scandinavian. We were invaded by the Vikings (who were barbarians from Norway, maybe that explains why people here can't feel the cold) and they brought with them an odd dialect which Newcastle never really progressed from. Some people reckon thats a load of bollocks though! Liverpool, Mid-West England www.whoohoo.co.uk - the language of the "Scousers". These people will nick all of your money, your clothes, your possessions, kick you in, and to add insult to injury, they'll waddle off like penguins with it all! This has some Welsh influences (the Welsh language, by the way, is virtually allergic to vowels!). Like the Scots, they have difficulty with the letter R, it becomes a bit like an L. There are loads more in England, Scotland and Ireland but I can't be arsed to explain them all. Visit www.whoohoo.co.uk it is adialect translator, it covers all kinds of British accents, and has now added some Irish ones too. It's a great site, but translators don't work very well for obvious reasons, just like English - Spanish translators. In geordie, for example, much of our word construction is different and it's very difficult to keep up to date with British slang which changes all the time. It's got to be one of the best sites out there though.

nice little story there, copied and pasted by any chance?

quote:

Originally posted by evil_bastard I haven't watched it in years so I can't say I've noticed. Do they take a casual stroll from Byker to see the Angel lol. People make such a big deal of the angel. It's rubbish. Another thing I've noticed is that when people come to the North East the best thing they want to check out is the Metro Centre! I think that sums us up as an area really!

you are right there luke. everyone just takes a stroll to the angel of the north. it only seems to take them about 10-15 mins to get there.

Thanks for the tips, Evil Bastard I'll twahy them

quote:

Originally posted by evil_bastard All I can suggest is watch some movies. The British movie industry isn't anything like as big as the US movie industry obviously (in the UK a "movie" is called a "film"). However, we have some awesome films out there, and since most are made in London, the south-East England accent is most commonly found in films, which is a very mild form of cockney.

I've been looking for British films, but it's really hard to find them. So cockney is used only in on part of London!? Heh, it must be so weird to see a city with more than one accent... I wonder if those actors from "As If" really speak cockney then

quote:

Originally posted by evil_bastard By the end of that film you should be able to immitate an East London gangster quite easily, although I find it quite funny a Brazilian trying to speak cockney Portugese is considered here to be a flambuoyant and sexy language, cockney is an accent used by gangsters and geezaz!

My cockney will make me sound like a sexy gangstah In fact, the reason I speak British English is because it sounds a lot more like my native language than American/Canadian English. If you're curious to know what it sounds like, I'll just record something tomorrow and post so you guys will decide whether my accent sounds hilarious or not

I wouldn't say London ("Landon") has more than one accent, but it just sounds a lot thicker in the East of the city. I think it sounds a bit more nasal in south East London as opposed to the rest of the East. But to a foreigner most Londoners will sound similar.

People who aren't from the East of London get annoyed when you call them cockneys, but the rest of the country just calls all of London cockneys anyway

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.