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Canadians going to iraq to act as human shields.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/features/iraq/anti_war_iraq.html

I think this is an incredibly brave and altruistic act, and i applaud these people for doing so.

This is what americans had to say about it:

Frank Tricario of Seattle, Washington: "The Canadian morons who have gone to Iraq as human fodder deserve to be blown up. Your nation is not under attack. We Americans will defend our people and will destroy any terrorist nation be it Iraq or whomever. Wake up Canada before your ass is blown up. Grow up and face this religious war."

Joseph Ames Jr., Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania: "'I'm not too scared,' Vandas told CBC News Online the day before she left. I think it will be a powerful experience.' It will be a powerful experience for this twit, alright. It will be the power of a 500 kg Smart Bomb landing on her apparently empty skull...."

Roy Patrick, Bakersfield, California: "It's too bad that so many misguided Canadians feel the need to physically involve themselves in opposition to our war against terrorism. Where were these folks when 3,000 people were murdered in New York? Saddam Hussein is a despot the world can, and should, do without. In the opinion of our leaders he is the head of the worldwide terror network...."

Norine Holland, Hampton, Virginia: "I am an American who had great respect for Canadians, having grown up in a border city and spent many, many hours in your country as a family member of hockey players and figure skaters. I hope Canada understands that Americans are FED UP with militarily defending your socialistic freedom, while you stab us in the back...."

Jeff Zeller, Washington, D.C.: "Each new day sees more and more Americans come to the realization that Canada is our enemy."

These sophomoric voices do not represent the majority of Americans...I hope.

well this is interesting, and would take courage...

tho the discussion, now that Iraq has abided by the weapons inspection deadlines, has actually shifted away from the war effort a bit.

and for another point, altrusitic these acts are NOT. an altruistic person would not need a reason such as pissing off the US in order to help those less privileged. and they arent actually doing anything except getting in the way...the rely on the mass media to spread their message of supposed 'altruism' which i think is the biggest fallicy.

buying a plane ticket to Iraq just to involve yourself in a war is not altruism. and while im not promoting the above viewpoints provided by moronic Americans - anyone thinking that doing such a thing can affect change is foolish. their efforts would be better expended elsewhere.

difficulties:
-who will they shield and why?
-how will they get access to potentially volatile areas (their main targets i assume)
-Canada has the potential for great influence towards the US, they are the closest to the US in terms of not just physical location but also mentality, culture. (the exact similarities can be argued, but i hope you get my drift) why not come to the US and affect change towards the embargoes, etc?
-need major media coverage to gain sympathy (basically dealing with the devil in the US)

m2c|

quote:

Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior These sophomoric voices do not represent the majority of Americans...I hope.

Unfortunatly they do represnt a large portion, if not the majority. However I hope everyone on this board, and throughout the world can remember, that not all of us, are that stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Nadi Unfortunatly they do represnt a large portion, if not the majority. However I hope everyone on this board, and throughout the world can remember, that not all of us, are that stupid.

I'll try, theres always some good grapes in a bunch

OMG
i though the pasifist peace hippy movement died in the 70's
(just joking)

this is a quote taken from that cbc article

quote:

large majorities in Britain, France, Germany and Russia believe Saddam is a threat to stability in the Middle East and a danger to world peace. But this consensus collapses when it comes to a military attack on Iraq.

see this is just what i dont get about the left wing view, they acknowledge a problem but yet dont give any solution to the matter other then 'doing nothing', furthermore they whine when a solution is presented.

the article stated that those participating it are 'anti-war' belivers. Just because you are anti war does not mean that war is not nessecary. thats like saying "i need to cross the ocean but im opposed to using a vehicle (plane, boat) to cross it", what are you going to do swim thousands of miles?

however i feel that these canadians would be relatively safe if they take up living inside civilian areas. if they were to stand ground at a military target i would see them as one in the same with the enemy.

instead of addressing the real problem, which i see as, the use of civilians as bodyshields in a war or reversally the use of military personal, equipment and/or orginization within civilian areas. how do we as a civilized society solve this. how do we punish those who commit such acts? surely not by siding with them! This is what i see those canadians doing. they are only hurting those who wish to actually deal with the problem instead of hurting those who cause the problem.

my problem with the whole 'human shield' idea is that these people arent superheroes. this would be a WAR, even IF they can stop one bullet - there will be millions more...

and as Izzy said, thats IF they reach a military target|

quote:

Originally posted by biznology well this is interesting, and would take courage... tho the discussion, now that Iraq has abided by the weapons inspection deadlines, has actually shifted away from the war effort a bit. and for another point, altrusitic these acts are NOT. an altruistic person would not need a reason such as pissing off the US in order to help those less privileged. and they arent actually doing anything except getting in the way...the rely on the mass media to spread their message of supposed 'altruism' which i think is the biggest fallicy. buying a plane ticket to Iraq just to involve yourself in a war is not altruism.

I disagree. Altruism is defined as "Unselfish concern for the welfare of others" and that is exactly what this is. They are concerned for the welfare of innocent iraqis, and also, canadians, americans, israelis and all the worlds people indirectly.

What is hoped to be achieved by this is averting a war, which will save lives, not just of iraqis, but of other countries that may be involved. if osama gets what he wants, this will be a further step towards turning this terrorism crisis into a world war of muslim east versus christian west. nobody wants that except for the terrorists, and this is why the human shields are there.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology and while im not promoting the above viewpoints provided by moronic Americans - anyone thinking that doing such a thing can affect change is foolish. their efforts would be better expended elsewhere.

glad you agree those americans are moronic. as for expended elsewhere, i suppose you have a point, but we are already doing that. there are protests all around canada, recently one in vancouver with thousands of people, and there was apparently one in the whitehorse on december 6th. I was unable to find anything on the web on these protests in a quick search, but i have friends that went to the vancouver one and they said it was very succesful. these protests are rarely covered in the US media, and even the canadian media doesn't do much coverage.

Protests are one thing that can be done. Myself, i publish a website, speak at a local college, belong to an antiwar group, and learn all i can.

Others take it upon themselves to go to iraq to try to stop the war, and i applaud them.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology difficulties: -who will they shield and why?

they will shield the iraqi people. they will most likely place themselves near public infrastructure elements such as damns, bridges, power grids, hospitals, and news outlets.

these are all places that ari fliescher likes to term "military targets" to make americans think that only the bad guys are getting killed.

why? to stop bombs from dropping on innocent heads, and to help avert a war that could cause the death of thousands more.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology -how will they get access to potentially volatile areas (their main targets i assume)

that i don't know. i assume they will try their best. saddamn would be smart to let them, as it might be in their best interests. However, they may be blocked, detained, even killed who knows. they take a large risk, that much is sure.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology -Canada has the potential for great influence towards the US, they are the closest to the US in terms of not just physical location but also mentality, culture. (the exact similarities can be argued, but i hope you get my drift) why not come to the US and affect change towards the embargoes, etc?

well, we try. letters to our foreign minister, protests in our streets, praise of politicians who stand up for this cause, scorn of those who align with the US hawks etc. this is only one way to fight though, and we have plenty of people doing that already.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology -need major media coverage to gain sympathy (basically dealing with the devil in the US)

major media coverage? that is exactly what the purpose of this is, to let iraq, the US, and the rest of the world know that canada does NOT want to go war. we are getting our coverage, as evidenced by the article. but, i bet you won't see a story on CNN or fox, the corporate powers that run america wouldn't want it to let slip that they are knowingly bombing canadians in iraq, it was a bad enough PR issue for them when they accidentally did it in afghanistan.

Canada does not want to go to war, and i am proud of my country men for standing up and risking their lives to prove it. This peace movement will grow, just as it did in vietnam, and eventually, we will stop this war.

unregardless!


i still think its a questionable idea, alt its not because im being overly pessimistic. i find it somewhat strange that Canadians wouldn't think of directly involving themselves in a war by attacking the US as an ally of Iraq, yet getting in the way via the Middle East is commendable.

yah my altruism thing wasnt so well thot out tho. i just wish there were more logical altruistic routes that you anti war Canadians would take -

quote:

Originally posted by biznology unregardless! [quote] ?

as for better ways, yes there is, and we are. However, this is just one more way we can show our dissatisfaction with the war. Expect it to increase.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith as for better ways, yes there is, and we are. However, this is just one more way we can show our dissatisfaction with the war. Expect it to increase.

thats fine.

i guess im not all that sure why Canada, as large a nation as it is, has remained so out of the overall world picture - not literally - but more in the minds of the international community. laying low with a small military helps you avoid the kind of stuff that the US is dealing with, but it keeps you from having a big sway in the affairs and choices made my similarly sized nations.

then again i dont necessarily think that size has to do with power, but hopefully you catch my drift|

Well, I applaud them for standing up for what they believe, but I'd be embarassed if the U.S. government actually allowed it to have the slightest impact on their military operations.

Re: Canadians going to iraq to act as human shields.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith http://www.cbc.ca/news/features/iraq/anti_war_iraq.html I think this is an incredibly brave and altruistic act, and i applaud these people for doing so. This is what americans had to say about it: Frank Tricario of Seattle, Washington: "The Canadian morons who have gone to Iraq as human fodder deserve to be blown up. Your nation is not under attack. We Americans will defend our people and will destroy any terrorist nation be it Iraq or whomever. Wake up Canada before your ass is blown up. Grow up and face this religious war." Joseph Ames Jr., Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania: "'I'm not too scared,' Vandas told CBC News Online the day before she left. I think it will be a powerful experience.' It will be a powerful experience for this twit, alright. It will be the power of a 500 kg Smart Bomb landing on her apparently empty skull...." Roy Patrick, Bakersfield, California: "It's too bad that so many misguided Canadians feel the need to physically involve themselves in opposition to our war against terrorism. Where were these folks when 3,000 people were murdered in New York? Saddam Hussein is a despot the world can, and should, do without. In the opinion of our leaders he is the head of the worldwide terror network...." Norine Holland, Hampton, Virginia: "I am an American who had great respect for Canadians, having grown up in a border city and spent many, many hours in your country as a family member of hockey players and figure skaters. I hope Canada understands that Americans are FED UP with militarily defending your socialistic freedom, while you stab us in the back...." Jeff Zeller, Washington, D.C.: "Each new day sees more and more Americans come to the realization that Canada is our enemy."

definitely applause for those heading over to Iraq.

but on the other hand, look how much notice the US took of the 4 Canadian soldiers killed by friendly fire...

damn, there's some good Canadian letters in there

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy this is a quote taken from that cbc article see this is just what i dont get about the left wing view, they acknowledge a problem but yet dont give any solution to the matter other then 'doing nothing', furthermore they whine when a solution is presented. the article stated that those participating it are 'anti-war' belivers. Just because you are anti war does not mean that war is not nessecary. thats like saying "i need to cross the ocean but im opposed to using a vehicle (plane, boat) to cross it", what are you going to do swim thousands of miles? however i feel that these canadians would be relatively safe if they take up living inside civilian areas. if they were to stand ground at a military target i would see them as one in the same with the enemy. instead of addressing the real problem, which i see as, the use of civilians as bodyshields in a war or reversally the use of military personal, equipment and/or orginization within civilian areas. how do we as a civilized society solve this. how do we punish those who commit such acts? surely not by siding with them! This is what i see those canadians doing. they are only hurting those who wish to actually deal with the problem instead of hurting those who cause the problem.

you want a solution that does not involve war? all that is necessary (i think) is for the world to acknowledge these "terrorists" plight and help them out (what is their plight? something about being screwed by the world for the last few decades). ppl usually do bad things for a reason you know.

quote:

Originally posted by dr me you want a solution that does not involve war? all that is necessary (i think) is for the world to acknowledge these "terrorists" plight and help them out (what is their plight? something about being screwed by the world for the last few decades). ppl usually do bad things for a reason you know.

When the squeaky wheel gets the grease, all the wheels will try to be squeaky.

You can't reward unacceptable behavior. If the terrorists were asking for help in a civilized manner, I'd say "sure, help them," but if we help them when their cries for attention manifest themselves in murder, all we'll succeed in doing is teaching everyone who would like to be helped to become a murderer.

Furthermore, they aren't as easy to help as you'd like to think: corrupt governments intercept aid meant for the people, and non-war mechanisms for overcoming this obstacle have failed almost unilaterally.

wow, some real bonified traitors to the republic, their innocense is gone the moment they join the other side... Saddam Hussein is an evil warlord, & recently our local newspaper ran an article on how he sold VX gas to Al-Queda, providing further evidence of Saddam as a terrorist state.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology unregardless! i find it somewhat strange that Canadians wouldn't think of directly involving themselves in a war by attacking the US as an ally of Iraq, yet getting in the way via the Middle East is commendable.

haha, a quick capture of Toronto & Montreal will all but decimate any ridiculous attempt by Canada to attack the US, what kind of stupid people are you guys, Canada is in the NATO alliance, allies dont attack one another.

The war is completely in Saddam Husseins hands, and it seems like he's doing his best to get himself a war. We dont want to go to war, but if he doesn't cough up the WMD goods, we have no choice.

Operation human shield...bah.
They must know something we don't. Afterall, nothing has begun.

Or, they know for certain Iraq has WMD and the eventual consequences that would bring to Iraq.

Saddam will be using them as shields. What does he care.

TP

im sorry, but taking random quotes of ppl (possibly off the streets) doesnt justify anyting.

quote:

Originally posted by Verona^My The war is completely in Saddam Husseins hands, and it seems like he's doing his best to get himself a war. We dont want to go to war, but if he doesn't cough up the WMD goods, we have no choice.

Haha, i just find that funny, cuz from the way I see it, George Bush is trying really hard to get a war. Just the picture of him in my head, saying "Well, I really don't want to do this, but I have no choice..." makes me chuckle.

thats plain fucking stupid

Re: Canadians going to iraq to act as human shields.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith http://www.cbc.ca/news/features/iraq/anti_war_iraq.html I think this is an incredibly brave and altruistic act, and i applaud these people for doing so. This is what americans had to say about it: Frank Tricario of Seattle, Washington: "The Canadian morons who have gone to Iraq as human fodder deserve to be blown up. Your nation is not under attack. We Americans will defend our people and will destroy any terrorist nation be it Iraq or whomever. Wake up Canada before your ass is blown up. Grow up and face this religious war." Joseph Ames Jr., Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania: "'I'm not too scared,' Vandas told CBC News Online the day before she left. I think it will be a powerful experience.' It will be a powerful experience for this twit, alright. It will be the power of a 500 kg Smart Bomb landing on her apparently empty skull...." Roy Patrick, Bakersfield, California: "It's too bad that so many misguided Canadians feel the need to physically involve themselves in opposition to our war against terrorism. Where were these folks when 3,000 people were murdered in New York? Saddam Hussein is a despot the world can, and should, do without. In the opinion of our leaders he is the head of the worldwide terror network...." Norine Holland, Hampton, Virginia: "I am an American who had great respect for Canadians, having grown up in a border city and spent many, many hours in your country as a family member of hockey players and figure skaters. I hope Canada understands that Americans are FED UP with militarily defending your socialistic freedom, while you stab us in the back...." Jeff Zeller, Washington, D.C.: "Each new day sees more and more Americans come to the realization that Canada is our enemy."

the comments of these people are silly. i was reading it, but i had to read twice, because i was realizing that to get to saddam, they would kill many innocent people, in my political science class, it has a picture of a little girl wearing a scarf and it says, would you take her life to get to saddam? all they can think about is killing saddam, when there are many innocent lives that will be taken. i think the canadians are being very altruistic not like these stupid people making comments, i am not sure if there are anymore comments, but i am sure there are, they should post some people that support the canadians, not everyone who is against. Fuckin the media at its best to rally the public for war

Re: Re: Canadians going to iraq to act as human shields.

quote:

Originally posted by liquidxxd the comments of these people are silly. i was reading it, but i had to read twice, because i was realizing that to get to saddam, they would kill many innocent people, in my political science class, it has a picture of a little girl wearing a scarf and it says, would you take her life to get to saddam? all they can think about is killing saddam, when there are many innocent lives that will be taken. i think the canadians are being very altruistic not like these stupid people making comments, i am not sure if there are anymore comments, but i am sure there are, they should post some people that support the canadians, not everyone who is against. Fuckin the media at its best to rally the public for war

I respect what they're trying to do, but their altruism is short-sighted. Even if they could somehow preserve a few lives in the present, they would be contributing to the oppression of countless future generations of Iraqi civilians - denying them the opportunity to grow up in a society characterized by liberty, not oppression. Absolutely everything we have achieved as a species has been built on the sacrifices of our ancestors, many of whom, voluntarily or otherwise, gave their lives serving a purpose greater than themselves. If we have indeed reached a level of cowardice and selfishness that we cannot do the same for future generations... then perhaps the demise of the human species has already begun.

I don't get it... why does Saddam need to import canadains as civilian shields?

I thought he has enough of those as it is.

Perhap's its not working though and they're all dying so they need to import new ones?

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