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It's too expensive to copyright stuff!

Bloody hell! I was doing some research on how to copyright stuff here and I just found out I have to pay 17 R$ for the government! (it would be just like paying 17 U$ in the US)

I know that there's the "mailing yourself" thing, but I'm not quite sure if it works here in my country Why do we have to pay to copyright stuff? I mean, we have all the trouble producing the damn thing and we need to pay afterwards so other people will not copy what we've done?! Doesn't make much sense, we'll have to pay for a lawyer to sue the bastard who might've copied our work anyway

Greedy selfish bastards

From what I understand copyright laws are the same almost everywere, and you can mail yourself something you've basically copyrited it, but you probably should check first.

That's what I'm trying to find out If it's part of those international treats (like the Berne Convention, the Rome Convention and so on...), I'll do it right away, but I just can't find the clause in which reads "if the owner of the property mails his work to himself, his work is automatically copyrighted" I know I won't find these words, but I'm looking for something that will make them become true

i know a creative process is copyrighted the second the artist completes it and puts it in a tangeble medium, such as a website or a brochure. i do have to copyright certain corporate works of art such as logos and slogans, but that is to protect my client, not me. i dont know if it is the same for music..but music is a creative process. anyway its well worth the 17 bucks to do it, you dont want anyone taking credit for your hard work and ideas. the following is what u need to do if u want to apply for a copyright.

List each author or artist who contributed to the work.


If the author or artist was working for someone else, write down the name and address of the employer.


If the work was published, you will need the date and location where it was published.


If the work is based on another work, you will need the exact title of the pre-existing work.

So, you're saying that if I upload my tune to an mp3.com account, it counts as copyrighted material You sure?

quote:

Originally posted by kirbtastic List each author or artist who contributed to the work.

hhmmm... that would be me

quote:

Originally posted by kirbtastic If the author or artist was working for someone else, write down the name and address of the employer.

I don't think my keyboards will ask for the credits Nor the company that produced some of the softwares I used

quote:

Originally posted by kirbtastic If the work was published, you will need the date and location where it was published.

Still unreleased

quote:

Originally posted by kirbtastic If the work is based on another work, you will need the exact title of the pre-existing work.

Nope, I don't think that's the case

like i said im not sure about music..but i know that is the case for my designs.

I tried to call the government's institution, but nobody answes the phone


Doesn't anybody know where in the international treaties this "mailing" thing is?

This is right out of the US copyright law maunual.

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form so that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

A work is a "Berne Convention work" if-

(1) in the case of an unpublished work, one or more of the authors is a national of a nation adhering to the Berne Convention, or in the case of a published work, one or more of the authors is a national of a nation adhering to the Berne Convention on the date of first publication;

(2) the work was first published in a nation adhering to the Berne Convention, or was simultaneously first published in a nation adhering to the Berne convention and in a foreign nation that does not adhere to the Berne Convention;

(3) in the case of an audiovisual work-

(A) if one or more of the authors is a legal entity, that author has its headquarters in a nation adhering to the Berne Convention; or

(B) if one or more of the authors is an individual, that author is domiciled, or has his or her habitual residence in, a nation adhering to the Berne Convention; or

(4) in the case of a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work that is incorporated in a building or other structure, the building or structure is located in a nation adhering to the Berne Convention; or

(5) in the case of an architectural work embodied in a building, such building is erected in a country adhering to the Berne Convention.


I think you should just pay the 17 bucks..if one of the bigger companies steals your work ur screwed. If you cant afford the 17 bucks to register, you definately cant afford the attorney fees and years of litigation it can take to prove that it was originally your song.

Thats what these companies do..they know the common person cant afford to stay in court as long as they can, although you can sue them to pay for you lawyer fees, but that is only if you win the case. having that song registered will be a big plus on your side.

Ive read about those laws in school. I was told that materials are automatlicy copywrighted as long as they are "Artistic" or what you call it. Has to be one of a kind. And you cant copywrite a webdesign. I know this. It wouldnt work.

For example a photo you get copywrite automaticly. no one has the right to use it until 70 Years after the photo is taken without your permission

I dont really know about music. How can you copywrite it? And where would the line be drawn? I mean do you copywrite the buildup or the baseline?

actually u cant use a photograph until 70 years after the person dies...and u absolutely can copyright a website...my website and every design on there is copyrighted.

I've sorted things out already

quote:

Originally posted by mindshooter I dont really know about music. How can you copywrite it? And where would the line be drawn? I mean do you copywrite the buildup or the baseline?

You copyright the melody and lyrics. Remember the incident between Armin and Picotto. Picotto copied a melody composed by Armin and used it not giving Armin any credits. It means that Picotto was earning profit from Armin's work. It's quite hard to copyright build-ups, because the way I see it, it's just a pause for the drums. Silence is part of music, so it can't be copyrighted. The same goes for the bassline. If you're refering to the synth used, or the structure, it can't be copyrighted because the synth was created by another person and structure is just a part of the melody. If the structure is the same (e.g. lenght, pauses), but the chords and notes are different, the melody changes: it becomes another music.

quote:

Originally posted by kirbtastic actually u cant use a photograph until 70 years after the person dies...and u absolutely can copyright a website...my website and every design on there is copyrighted.

Actually thats a common misstake...music is copywrited until 70 years after death..thats why you can use Mozarts music for free today. But photos doesn aply to that...its 70 years after its taken and it doesn matter if your alive or not

And about the website thingy...thats just what my teacher told me, the law does not aply to the internet so far os something like that. It does aply to pictures or logos. But not desigens..havent you seen that site with people rippin other sites designs? How come they are not convicted in that case?

quote:

Originally posted by Maaz I've sorted things out already You copyright the melody and lyrics. Remember the incident between Armin and Picotto. Picotto copied a melody composed by Armin and used it not giving Armin any credits. It means that Picotto was earning profit from Armin's work. It's quite hard to copyright build-ups, because the way I see it, it's just a pause for the drums. Silence is part of music, so it can't be copyrighted. The same goes for the bassline. If you're refering to the synth used, or the structure, it can't be copyrighted because the synth was created by another person and structure is just a part of the melody. If the structure is the same (e.g. lenght, pauses), but the chords and notes are different, the melody changes: it becomes another music.

But does the melody have to be exact? Say i change one note or tone....does the coprywrite not aply then?

yes because remember when vanilla ice sampled queen...he added a note, but they still made him pay royalties

quote:

Originally posted by kirbtastic yes because remember when vanilla ice sampled queen...he added a note, but they still made him pay royalties

ok..wonder where the line is drawn then
I guess thats upp to court to decide

quote:

Originally posted by mindshooter ok..wonder where the line is drawn then I guess thats upp to court to decide

The melodies cannot have eight measures in common (they cannot be "similar" either)... that's what happened in Ice MC's case, the melodies were too damn similar

i'm too lazy to read all the replies so pardon me if this has already been said

you can also copyright collections

say for example you are an artist, you can put together a "book" of your drawings and copyright all of them in one shot

you should be able to do the same thing for music, hence only paying the fee once for a number of tracks

and don't forget beats are not copyrightable, only melodies and lyrics/vocals. So you can copyright your track but people can still steal your baseline legally.

I also highly recommend doing the mailing thing just as a backup even if you do copyright something because your copyright may not hold in another country but if you are taken to court and the envelope is opened in front of a judge then you have proof that you had it first.

goodluck!

quote:

Originally posted by bug_bite you can also copyright collections

I didn't know that Usually, in electronic music, the same melody is repeated a few times, so I was wondering, if I write the melody of several different tunes down (using scores and stuff) in just a couple of sheets, it could be considered as a collection, right?

quote:

Originally posted by bug_bite and don't forget beats are not copyrightable

Glad to hear that

Just kidding, I'd rather make them myself: it sounds more "unique"

I know a fair bit about copyright as i did a course on music technology and we studied it.

Basically soon as you write something its yours. However because people arnt honest we have to be able to prove that it is ours.
If you send something to yourself you have to get it done recorded with a seal over the envelope. When you get it back you must not open it and keep it in a safe place as things have been stolen.

That way its evidence that you wrote the music before anybody else.
There are other more reliable ways but thats the one most applicalbe to us id imagine.

If something is copyrighted as soon as I write it, what's that government registration for?

And now I'm curious to know what the "other reliable ways" are Could you tell more about it?

its just extra proof to help u in legal matters....people still win copyright cases even if they never officially copyrighted their idea

In the UK theres a place where you can go and register your work by a goverment body which i imagine is similar to the $17 you have to pay.

You could also get it verified a solictior but the cost would obviously more.

One of the most secure ways however is to take it to bank and put it into a saftey deposit box and leave it. They keep records of when its been opened. But obviously its down to cost.

Its all about proving you wrote it first.

saftey deposit box sounds good to me

but i don't understand how mailing something to yourself proves that you made it or when you received it, therefore proving you had it first, how does that work?

quote:

Originally posted by vito saftey deposit box sounds good to me but i don't understand how mailing something to yourself proves that you made it or when you received it, therefore proving you had it first, how does that work?

the post mark that goes on the envelope is dated.

ok, that proves the time
doesn't prove that you really made it, you could've stolen something and mailed it to yourself

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