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Non-U.S. students jailed over class load

hey, im not the resident political forum ta and actually was opposed to the creation of the forum but, i thought this this would be an intersting topic of discussion...

i suppose this is along the same line as the racial profiling topic but, i thought it deserved a thread of its own...!

Non-U.S. students jailed over class load

quote:

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- At least six Middle Eastern students studying in Colorado have been jailed in the past 10 days for failing to take enough college classes as required by their student visas. The students ran into trouble when they showed up to register with U.S. immigration officials, as required by new rules to track foreign students. When they reported, they were jailed and required to post $5,000 bonds for enrolling in less than 12 hours of college credit. The Immigration and Naturalization Service says the students are being detained because under-enrollment is a violation of their student visas. The students are not suspected of any other offense. "We're concerned about the heavy-handed nature of the enforcement and their lack of understanding of their own regulations," said Chris Johnson, director of international education at the University of Colorado at Denver. "Students are being detained unfairly and callously." One University of Colorado at Denver student was jailed last week because he was one hour shy of a full load after receiving college permission to drop a course, Johnson said. "I don't believe this is helping us with the war on terrorism," said Mark Hallett, director of international student services at Colorado State University. "We're alienating people who could be our best friends and ambassadors once they return to their countries." The Middle Eastern students were jailed for up to 48 hours before posting bond. Three attend UCD, two study at CU-Boulder, and one attends Colorado State University. College officials expect more to be detained during a second round of January registrations at the INS district office in Denver. Congress ordered federal registrations by December 16 for males 16 and older carrying temporary visas from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya and Sudan -- countries identified by the State Department as having ties to terrorism. A January 10 deadline is for men from the United Arab Emirates, North Korea, Morocco, Afghanistan and nine other countries. Two more rounds of registrations will follow with the goal of tracking most foreign nationals by 2005. "As far as the INS is concerned, this system was put in place in Congress to combat the war on terrorism. We're carrying out their wishes. This is a policy issue," said Nina Pruneda, INS regional public affairs officer. The INS wants to ensure that international students are diligently pursuing a degree, she said.

personally i think this is just plain ridiculous and unethical!!!! will comment more later...


Comments!?


-BLuEOcEaN420

unethical?
firstly america if it wanted to does not have to let non american citizens enter the country. luckly, it choses to allow it and furthermore even allows foriegners to study in its public universities
i too am an international student, and i also have to meet the 12 credit criteria, i knew that even before i enrolled in the school, if that had bothered me i would have gone and studied in a different country. students are made fully aware that if they drop below the 12 credit class load they must report to the school and usually there are legal ways to work around it, im sorry if you cant obey basic law maybe you shouldnt even be here. this law has nothing to do at all with racial profiling and applies to ALL international students


now if you want to argue that the 12 credit class load is a bad law, then we can argue about that. the reason it came about was because in the US, if you take 12 credits worth of classes you are considered a "full-time student". now, in general foriegners are allowed a toursit visa when coming to the US and can stay for i think 6 months at a time. if one decides to live in america for a longer period, he must either obtain one of three things, a work visa, a student visa, or immigration visa. the third is hard to get, ill admit that right away however if you obtain a work visa, you must work at that job full time, as would a student who comes here needs to study full time. otherwise it would seem that a student would just take a easy course load just to leech off the american system and be able to live here indefinitly.

can you elaborate why you think this is just plain ridiculous and unethical?

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy can you elaborate why you think this is just plain ridiculous and unethical?

You could argue that its rediculous and or unethical because if anyone on a student that wasn't muslim wasnt taking the required number of classes, they most likley wouldnt have served any time.

quote:

Originally posted by Nadi You could argue that its rediculous and or unethical because if anyone on a student that wasn't muslim wasnt taking the required number of classes, they most likley wouldnt have served any time.

ah there is a difference here that makes your comment void. these people are not citizens and are here to study. if they don't take 12 or more credits then they are not officially enrolled students in their universities and therefore living in our country illegally. as far as other nations not being punished for similar reasons? well that is simply the terms of their student visas...whereas other countries might have differnt terms. you may think that this isn't fair, but obviously students from canada aren't going to run into similar problems as those coming from over seas...

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy unethical? firstly america if it wanted to does not have to let non american citizens enter the country. luckly, it choses to allow it and furthermore even allows foriegners to study in its public universities students are made fully aware that if they drop below the 12 credit class load they must report to the school and usually there are legal ways to work around it, im sorry if you cant obey basic law maybe you shouldnt even be here. this law has nothing to do at all with racial profiling and applies to ALL international students

wOrd!!!

quote:

now if you want to argue that the 12 credit class load is a bad law, then we can argue about that. the reason it came about was because in the US, if you take 12 credits worth of classes you are considered a "full-time student". now, in general foriegners are allowed a toursit visa when coming to the US and can stay for i think 6 months at a time. if one decides to live in america for a longer period, he must either obtain one of three things, a work visa, a student visa, or immigration visa. the third is hard to get, ill admit that right away however if you obtain a work visa, you must work at that job full time, as would a student who comes here needs to study full time. otherwise it would seem that a student would just take a easy course load just to leech off the american system and be able to live here indefinitly.

now for this statement:

quote:

We're alienating people who could be our best friends and ambassadors once they return to their countries."

yeh. i'm sure they aint going to be best friends or ambassadors - they cant even adhere to the simple rule of having to keep 12 credits, yet alone become ambassadors

12 credits aint shit. that is a small standard to adhere to while studying in the US educational system.

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by JM 12 credits aint shit. that is a small standard to adhere to while studying in the US educational system. >JM<

not if you're in computer engineering
hehe

16 units is a full load
i agree that 12 units isnt so much to take, but detaining them for it is kind of stupid. all they need to do is tell them verbally, either you take your 12 units or we deport you. they will get the picture if they are told that, but detaining them is kind of harsh i would think. and probably the only reason they are detained is because they are middle eastern and it is completely obvious because they are detaining men in the US who are from like 5 different middle eastern countries. its pretty stupid

quote:

Originally posted by liquidxxd 16 units is a full load i agree that 12 units isnt so much to take, but detaining them for it is kind of stupid. all they need to do is tell them verbally, either you take your 12 units or we deport you. they will get the picture if they are told that, but detaining them is kind of harsh i would think. and probably the only reason they are detained is because they are middle eastern and it is completely obvious because they are detaining men in the US who are from like 5 different middle eastern countries. its pretty stupid

heres an interesting theory.. maybe they detained them because they suspected they had links with terrorist, so they took them arrested them and checked.. all the while finding they violated the laws of the USA. So perhaps they were suspected terrorist... interesting they seem to be of middle eastern orgin.. oh well I guess they shouldn't note that, as that would lead to racial profiling.

dude yoepus did you even read this, he said no links, don't assume stuff.

as for the emprisonment, its plain stupid waste the american people resources... just as someone here said, tell them or deport them. but throw in a prison?? what the fuck, some people in the system made the same asumptions as you yoepus and just tought the best was to throw them in prison. even the director at the university said its nonsense.

i bet a 1000$ that if they were jews (they are middle easterns too right?), izzy, yoepus and his acolytes would've thrown a couple of "anti-semites" and what not here and there...

for one I've been to university and getting enrolled in classes and having a full schedule is a very complex and tiresome process, some semesters some classes aren't available, classes overlap, they have final exams on the same date/time, etc etc... and the more you advance your program and the less the classes are available and the more trouble you encounter... its not grammar or high school folks, you come into school and they give a ready trouble-free schedule.

common sense people, its all about common sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller ah there is a difference here that makes your comment void. these people are not citizens and are here to study. if they don't take 12 or more credits then they are not officially enrolled students in their universities and therefore living in our country illegally. as far as other nations not being punished for similar reasons? well that is simply the terms of their student visas...whereas other countries might have differnt terms. you may think that this isn't fair, but obviously students from canada aren't going to run into similar problems as those coming from over seas...

I don't have all the facts, but if there was a student who didnt have all the proper classes from say England or Germany do you really think that they would be arrested?

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus heres an interesting theory.. maybe they detained them because they suspected they had links with terrorist, so they took them arrested them and checked.. all the while finding they violated the laws of the USA. So perhaps they were suspected terrorist... interesting they seem to be of middle eastern orgin.. oh well I guess they shouldn't note that, as that would lead to racial profiling.

here is another interesting theory...maybe they are fuckin retarded and suspect every middle eastern to have links of terrorism. it is getting to the point of being ridiculous. they think everyone is linked with terrorism. they are profiling almost every middle eastern. those so called "random" checks at the airport arent so random. my mom is from egypt, luckly my dad is white and was in the us marines, and i look white, so i dont have to deal with stupid shit like that, but some peopel arent so lucky. just imagine if you were in that situation, would you have come up with the same theory that you just put? i dont think so. so think man, please, that is the reason for all of this, because people arent thinking or they are thinking stupidly

quote:

College officials expect more to be detained during a second round of January registrations at the INS district office in Denver. Congress ordered federal registrations by December 16 for males 16 and older carrying temporary visas from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya and Sudan -- countries identified by the State Department as having ties to terrorism. A January 10 deadline is for men from the United Arab Emirates, North Korea, Morocco, Afghanistan and nine other countries. Two more rounds of registrations will follow with the goal of tracking most foreign nationals by 2005. "As far as the INS is concerned, this system was put in place in Congress to combat the war on terrorism. We're carrying out their wishes. This is a policy issue," said Nina Pruneda, INS regional public affairs officer. The INS wants to ensure that international students are diligently pursuing a degree, she said.

look right there, you know what happens when they register, they get detained too. they are detaining 16 year old kids who came to the states while they were still in diapers, suspecting they are linked to terrorists. looks like the war on middle easterns rather than the war on terrorism. whem timothy mcveigh bombed the oklahoma federal building, they didnt start detaining every white male in the nation did they? it was really stupid too, the ins said something like "yea this has nothing to do with ethnic backround or race, but will people wiht temporary visa from these countries please report to ins"

pretty ridiculous eh?

quote:

Originally posted by liquidxxd look right there, you know what happens when they register, they get detained too.

Yeah, of course they do. Except the two I know, who have already registered.

guy's i can and would be put in jail for giving my brother a beer, am i going to cry racism or what not over that? lighten up...

quote:

for one I've been to university and getting enrolled in classes and having a full schedule is a very complex and tiresome process, some semesters some classes aren't available, classes overlap, they have final exams on the same date/time, etc etc... and the more you advance your program and the less the classes are available and the more trouble you encounter... its not grammar or high school folks, you come into school and they give a ready trouble-free schedule.

as i said, you can work around all these problems, the law allows for ways around the 12 credit minimum, you just have to be responsible enough to go work it out with the international student service of your university, this isnt rocket science you know. you dont do it you could legaly end up in jail, i dont see how this has anything to do with race.

and please guys, even i got yoepus' joke, if you guys can start crying and conspiring its all a plot of racism bent on jailing every mid-easterner then he has the same right to conspire that everyone is a terrorist.

quote:

Originally posted by Nadi I don't have all the facts, but if there was a student who didnt have all the proper classes from say England or Germany do you really think that they would be arrested?

no your right..they probably wouldn't. obviously the extreme nature of their detaining is a direct result of the war on terrorism as well as the violation of their student visas. the thought well if their not here to study what are they doing is probably a big part of this decision.

quote:

i bet a 1000$ that if they were jews (they are middle easterns too right?), izzy, yoepus and his acolytes would've thrown a couple of "anti-semites" and what not here and there...

ahlamalek,

i think you are the only anti-semite here.

guy's i can and would be put in jail for giving my brother a beer, am i going to cry racism or what not over that? lighten up...

quote:

for one I've been to university and getting enrolled in classes and having a full schedule is a very complex and tiresome process, some semesters some classes aren't available, classes overlap, they have final exams on the same date/time, etc etc... and the more you advance your program and the less the classes are available and the more trouble you encounter... its not grammar or high school folks, you come into school and they give a ready trouble-free schedule.

as i said, you can work around all these problems, the law allows for ways around the 12 credit minimum, you just have to be responsible enough to go work it out with the international student service of your university, this isnt rocket science you know. you dont do it you could legaly end up in jail, i dont see how this has anything to do with race.

and please guys, even i got yoepus' joke, if you guys can start crying and conspiring its all a plot of racism bent on jailing every mid-easterner then he has the same right to conspire that everyone is a terrorist.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller i think you are the only anti-semite here.

yes i hate my own race

quote:

Originally posted by ahlamalek yes i hate my own race

hey idiot,

then why the hell are you always talking about jews are so rich...jews are blah blah..

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