TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Moon Landings
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

Moon Landings

I always believed, and still do, that NASA was able to accomplish their goal of having a man walk on the moon. However, there are many conspiracy theorists out there that believe otherwise. No doubt this makes me think about the whole event and what actually transpired. It is fascinating more than anything.

The Great Lunar Lie - How NASA Mooned The World

What are your thoughts?

TP

The simple reason why I don't believe it was a hoax:

The Russians would have said so.

And if it was true, people would have believed the Russians then.

I'm sure it was not very hard for a rival superpower to simply point a telescope to the moon and look at the landing first hand. I'm sure they did this, and I'm sure this is why they did not critize it as a hoax.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus The simple reason why I don't believe it was a hoax: The Russians would have said so. And if it was true, people would have believed the Russians then. I'm sure it was not very hard for a rival superpower to simply point a telescope to the moon and look at the landing first hand. I'm sure they did this, and I'm sure this is why they did not critize it as a hoax.

Smart comment

Indeed a good theory!

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus The simple reason why I don't believe it was a hoax: The Russians would have said so. And if it was true, people would have believed the Russians then. I'm sure it was not very hard for a rival superpower to simply point a telescope to the moon and look at the landing first hand. I'm sure they did this, and I'm sure this is why they did not critize it as a hoax.

Well, the Russians couldnt say so, because they still have no proof to make SUCH COMMENT. And one of the reasons why the Russians didnt go to the moon first, and still heavent, is because of the Sun rays ( theres some very bad rays, radiations and so on ) were so powerfull, that the astronauts would come back with Tumors or sicknesses, so they didnt get them in danger. So their question is and probably is why are american astronauts doing good and all. I saw the TV show about the theorys and so on. They showed detailed how the sun was suppost to be making a certain shadow, yet, the shadows in the picture were going all at different angles . As well, on one of the films the flag is moving, though theres no air. .. theres also Area 51 . I dont know, but this has had me thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX Well, the Russians couldnt say so, because they still have no proof to make SUCH COMMENT. And one of the reasons why the Russians didnt go to the moon first, and still heavent, is because of the Sun rays ( theres some very bad rays, radiations and so on ) were so powerfull, that the astronauts would come back with Tumors or sicknesses, so they didnt get them in danger. So their question is and probably is why are american astronauts doing good and all. I saw the TV show about the theorys and so on. They showed detailed how the sun was suppost to be making a certain shadow, yet, the shadows in the picture were going all at different angles . As well, on one of the films the flag is moving, though theres no air. .. theres also Area 51 . I dont know, but this has had me thinking.

I'm sorry, what in god's world made you think the Russian's couldn't have pointed a telescope at the moon in 1968 and watched the moon lander, well, land?

quote:

And one of the reasons why the Russians didnt go to the moon first, and still heavent, is because of the Sun rays ( theres some very bad rays, radiations and so on ) were so powerfull, that the astronauts would come back with Tumors or sicknesses, so they didnt get them in danger.

How come all the astronauts that are going for space walks around the earth orbit aren't all dead then by now. There is no atmosphere there, and their exposure to solar radiation lasts much longer, some of the astronauts have thousands of working hours in outer space.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 How come all the astronauts that are going for space walks around the earth orbit aren't all dead then by now. There is no atmosphere there, and their exposure to solar radiation lasts much longer, some of the astronauts have thousands of working hours in outer space.

well, apparently that must be a conspriacy too then !

I can't believe, men haven't even done space orbits.. and that must mean that international space station is a hoax too!

damn.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I'm sorry, what in god's world made you think the Russian's couldn't have pointed a telescope at the moon in 1968 and watched the moon lander, well, land?

There's no telescope in the world that would enable anyone to see the landing. The details would be too small for any telescope to be able to pick it up.

TP

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 How come all the astronauts that are going for space walks around the earth orbit aren't all dead then by now. There is no atmosphere there, and their exposure to solar radiation lasts much longer, some of the astronauts have thousands of working hours in outer space.

Mmm for your information, they are not at all in SPACE, they are at the highest atmosphere I guess, not sure on that though. One thing Im sure with is, that between the moon and the earth, THERE IS SPACE, and thats where this rays are, not at the rotating surface of the earths atmosphere, where the astrounats, stations and so on are. Plus, the moon has no atmosphere, so thats where also the rays wich were mention, are the ones they probably referred to.

At the height they're at the atmosphere is so thin that it is basically unnoticable. If there would be enough atmosphere there to stop cosmic rays, the ISS would burn up in 5 minutes because of its speed. Most cosmic rays are stopped in higher levels of atmosphere, but way below the ISS. Maybe every cosmic ray in a million is stopped there, but for the effects to be obvious that's waaay below the limit. What you forget about is that the astronauts were in a capsule during their flight to moon, and the material from which it was made absorbs cosmic rays much much better than the atmosphere, so they were protected from it then, and their moon walks took only few hours if so, and there they were protected with their jumpsuits which also protect from cosmic rays. The atmosphere is so good at protecting from cosmic rays (although some do reach the surface) because it's tens of kilometers wide. But the same, or probably better effect can be achieved with 10cm of lead.

NASA has recently come out and refuted all of the conspiracy theories. I think they even published a book but I dont remember where I saw it on the net. Ill look for it

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidXtrance Mmm for your information, they are not at all in SPACE, they are at the highest atmosphere I guess, not sure on that though. One thing Im sure with is, that between the moon and the earth, THERE IS SPACE, and thats where this rays are, not at the rotating surface of the earths atmosphere, where the astrounats, stations and so on are. Plus, the moon has no atmosphere, so thats where also the rays wich were mention, are the ones they probably referred to.

This argument is ridiculous. The altitude of the ISS and most space missions in general occur above the ozone layer which filters out the majority of harmful rays that the sun emitts. And though the gravitational effect of earth may be misconstrued with the atmosphere of earth missions that take place in 0 gravity are generally outside of earth's atmoshphere. Besides ... high energy particles from the sun are less harmful than intense gamma rays from a close radioactive source and we have suits to protect people from that. So why would it be so hard to protect astronauts?

http://www.lunaranomalies.com/fake-moon.htm here is some point by point explanation.. also here http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jsc..._faked/moon.htm

I still cant honestly believe we landed on the moon. I'm sorry but I can't. As much as anyone try's to teach me how, I just cant believe it

Which part exactly can you not believe in?

The whole thing. What is their in space we need? What can we do with space? What is space? is their space? What can we benifit from being in space? I dont see a need for space so therefore I dont believe in it.

quote:

The whole thing. What is their in space we need? What can we do with space? What is space? is their space? What can we benifit from being in space? I dont see a need for space so therefore I dont believe in it.

You amaze me.

a) Things wee need from space:
1. Raw materials (minerals, iron,...) of which earth is slowly becoming depleted
2. Living space, place for expansion
3. Knowledge about the world around us

b) We can colonize it, make research colonies in it, import raw materials from it,...We are currently consuming more matterials than the earth is able to supply. The only reason we still can get them is that they were around in abundance. But they are not anymore. Hundreds of years ago, coal was laying on the earth surface thruought the europe, and now mines for digging it are kilometers deep. At the current rate of usage, we will use all useful raw materials in few hundred years. And when that happens, we can go back to hunting zebras in african savannah for a million or so years, when things come back in their place again.

c) Space, on a solar system scale, is basically emptiness filled with asteroids and few planets. If you are more interested, I can elaborate that, and space on a wider scale as well.

d) Truly, you don't need more than elementary school knowledge to know if there really is space. What else is there then? Earth must be floating in something, right? And if you really don't believe in it, get some money and pay russians to take you on a space tour, or wait 10 years, until it becomes more available.
Or you believe that all is a hoax too? And all the space probes as well. Ask yourself how does satellite TV work then? Or, better yet, where are those satellites.
To ask yourself a question is there space, is almost like asking oneself is the earth round.
Sorry if you feel assaulted, but there's so much obvious evidence that there is space that it's crystal clear. If you don't believe that, tell me and I'll start listing it for you.

e) We can gain much scientific knowledge, improving our everyday life, human race can expand beyond earth boundaries. Just remember what a big positive change was discovering the New world (America). If there weren't explorational ideas at that time, you wouldn't be sitting in Connecticut, you'd be sitting somewhere in Africa.

f) Ok, if you really ment what you said in the last sentence, I don't know what to say to you. I don't like the fact that I took a part in a car accident, crashed my car, and on top of it all, it's my fault, so I'm gonna have to pay for damage, but it's not gonna go away if I say that I don't believe in it. Reality is not what you believe in. What you said is like ostriches sticking their heads in the sand to avoid danger. They don't see it, so danger isn't there. Until they get eaten by the predator, at which time it's too late.

I agree with drug tito ... are you for real? Saying you don't care or believe about space is like saying you don't care or believe about what's happening outside of your city.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 You amaze me. e) We can gain much scientific knowledge, improving our everyday life, human race can expand beyond earth boundaries. Just remember what a big positive change was discovering the New world (America). If there weren't explorational ideas at that time, you wouldn't be sitting in Connecticut, you'd be sitting somewhere in Africa.

Id be sitting somewhere in Germany. But you have stated some very nice facts, But I still dont believe it. If god hasnt put us in space, We have no buisness their. God wont let us run out of Materials, Only Liberals say that because their so intune with the earth and "mother nature" What world is around us? And why do we need more room to expan? Living Space?! Why would you want to live in "space"? What would be the point? What are they trying to prove everytime they "send the shuttle into orbit"? As far as I am concerned, I have always been told by my parents that space is a mind trick. Used by school's to give something to teach kid's about. My father work's for the U.S Government and he totally denies space. And many other people who he works with deny it to. It is nice to think about, What is up their, If their is anything. From what I hear about people who do believe in space. If I dont see it with my own eyes, Im sorry but I just cant believe it.

I'm sorry extulas, I mean no disrespect. But there is so much wrong with what you have just said, I can scarcely begin to construct a response. I still hold out hope that you are merely joking.

quote:

Originally posted by extulas If god hasnt put us in space, We have no buisness their.

Assuming the existence of God, which is an awfully big assumption, if he created us, and we created technology to get us into space, then by providing us with the ingenuity and desire to go to space, he has essentially put us into space.

quote:

Originally posted by extulas God wont let us run out of Materials, Only Liberals say that because their so intune with the earth and "mother nature"

I really don't see what makes you think the same God who let us kill tens of millions of each other during and directly following World War II, who has overseen our complete eradication of thousands of our planets species, and who made it possible for us to build nuclear weapons will suddenly and inexplicably decide to create some miraculous intervention to prevent us from consuming the limited resources of our planet. That is, assuming you believe that World War II really happened, that we have made species extinct, and that nuclear weapons exist.

quote:

Originally posted by extulas And why do we need more room to expan?

I'm sorry, I am not allowed to tell you that. But here's a hint: It might have something to do with overpopulation.

quote:

Originally posted by extulas My father work's for the U.S Government and he totally denies space. And many other people who he works with deny it to.

I think I just figured out what's wrong with the U.S. Government.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think those little points of light in the sky at night are, if not stars in space? And where are the sun and the moon? Just in the sky or something? Or maybe they don't exist, and are just hallucinations. You do see them too, right? It's not just the rest of us, I hope.

I have a piece of advice to you. Don't listen to anything you parents tell you ever again. It could potentially help you immensely.

Regards,

Arbiter

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Just out of curiosity, what do you think those little points of light in the sky at night are, if not stars in space?

Well potentially theres an infinite amount of answers to that But yeah...Why should they call my university after Johannes Kepler if all of that's bullshit?

estulas: What do you really believe then? Have you ever wondered if 2+2 is REALLY 4? Might be just a sadistical creation to harass us in school, too...

quote:

If god hasnt put us in space, We have no buisness their.

From what I know of the bible, when he chased people out of garden of eden, he basically said now you're on your own. And we are on our own. So we might as well try to get the best out of it.

quote:

God wont let us run out of Materials

Oh, so god is continuously pumping up raw materials into the earth?
How come its gravity is equal all the time?
Besides, look at what happened to people of Easter islands.
They had forests, chopped down trees, made tools using those trees, even erected huge statues with the help of tree trunks.
But, they were cutting trees too much, and in the end, they cut down the last tree, lost all their tools, and returned to such a primitive state, that everybody is wondering how they managed to erect those statues in the first place. They managed it because they had something to do it with.
If we restrain from space, we might end up like they did.

quote:

What are they trying to prove everytime they "send the shuttle into orbit"?

They are not sending shuttle into orbit just for sake of sending shuttles into orbit.
They are doing it for many reasons. Basically it's
1. To put sattelites into orbit
2. To do research that could not have been done on earth

Why do we need sattelites? What's better, to build thousands of transmitting/recieving stations or to build one sattelite and send it to orbit?
The second thing is much cheaper.

Now, here's some proof for existence of space even you can measure (unless of course, the measuring devices are made to fool you)
1. Go to a high mountain or go flying high. You can see that the air is thinner there, since it's harder for you to breathe (of course, someone may have put poison in the higher levels of atmosphere that is making you breathe harder)
2. Get a precise device to measure gravity. It's weaker when you're in a plane then when you are on the ground.
From the first point, the conclusion is that the atmosphere is growing thinner all the time untill it eventually dissappears.
From the second one, you can calculate the exact speed with which you can throw an object from earth, so that it never returns again. (10th grade physics here, I can tell you all the equations needed for it if you don't believe me, and I can assure you that they're correct).
First, if the object flies away that it never returns, where do you think it'll go?
Second, find some information about space rockets, and you'll see that they have enough thrust to overcome that limiting speed, even including the atmosphere slowing them down.

You can measure Earth diameter also. Look at your shadow at noon, and then go to florida, and look at it there. It's shorter than where you are now. Measure them, and with some basic trigonometry, you can get the earth radius (been done in ancient greece with surprising accuracy). Now, knowing the earth radius, and those shadows, you can get the distance between the earth and the sun, also using some trigonometry (unless you believe trigonometry is also a mind trick).

By knowing moon periods of rotation, you can get its size and distance and mass as well. Newton did that. You can also confirm that with evidence from tidal effects.

To get the distance of other planets (which most of you can see with your bare eyes), if you spend few years looking at their orbits, you can measure their distance from the sun as well.

If you don't believe that planets exist, take a telescope, you can buy a sufficient one for 120$ or so, and look at the closer ones. They appear just like on the NASA photos. And what do you think is between those planets? Air? If there would be any matter, they'd be fiery balls going through the sky and soon they'd all fall down on the sun because of friction.

If they were just random dots in the sky, they wouldn't behave exactly as predicted by gravitational laws which are effective on earth.

You know, my grandmother had a neighbour who thought earth is flat (because, look down, we're standing on a flat floor!), america is smaller than croatia (because maps of croatia and america are about equal in size), airplanes are propelled by god (because how else could they be flying while being so heavy), sun is rotating around the earth (because, look, I'm standing still, and the earth is not moving relative to me, but the sun is!)

Anyway, I think you should go and read high school physics. But not just read those books, try to understand them and try to make up experiments of your own which will prove or dissaprove those theories and formulas. Then you'll see that it all fits into place.

Time gravity friction ect, Is all science, We are made to believe in it because it makes sense. Unfortunatly I am forced to believe in time due to society. If you went to a society in lets say, Africa, Or some place where its only a tribe, Amazon or whatever, If you tried to talk to them about time, They would think your nuts. (Is their still any tribes out their that dont use anything?) Look at the Amish for example. My grandparents use to live 45 minutes away from Lancaster PA, And I was talking to a amish kid who is now 19-20 (I talked to him when he was 17 2 summers ago) and he left the amish people (I guess when you turn 16 they give you a week to decide if you want to stay amish or not) And they dont believe in space, They dont believe in science, They dont believe in anything but god and what god gave them, Their land, Their house, Their families, ect. And yes, God is pumping more materials into the earth. How cant he? He can do whatever he wants. What kind of research do we need? If its not on earth, We dont need it. And also, if their was space, Their supposably is no air in space, So why isnt all of our air going into space? And I refuse to read any science book, Its evil, Science is playing God.

The only reason you have such snappy comebacks is because you have been manipulated by a government (depending on where you live) or school (usually ran by the government) to believe it.
(No offense)

Holy shit you're really not kidding

ok, i'm not sure anymore if you are joking or not because your arguments are so ridiculous that this will be my last try with you.

quote:

Time gravity friction ect, Is all science, We are made to believe in it because it makes sense.

Better than believing in something that doesn't make sense. If you conduct experiments, you will se that it is just so and not different.
Besides, the moon and sun distance is not science, it's math. You can't dissaprove math because it truly is the same all the time.

quote:

Unfortunatly I am forced to believe in time due to society. If you went to a society in lets say, Africa, Or some place where its only a tribe, Amazon or whatever, If you tried to talk to them about time, They would think your nuts. (Is their still any tribes out their that dont use anything?)

Well, time as hours, minutes, and seconds, yes, they wouldn't know (although i'm not sure if that's still the case nowadays)
But time in terms of before, after, long, short, day...it would not be considered stupid.

quote:

and he left the amish people

wonder why? a smart person, obviously.

quote:

And they dont believe in space, They dont believe in science, They dont believe in anything but god and what god gave them, Their land, Their house, Their families, ect.

Well, if I don't believe in you that doesn't mean you don't exist. Aditionally, god didn't give them their houses, they built them on their own. This shows that even if you are amish, you have to use some technological knowledge in your life, for building houses, plows, carriages, etc. That IS science, or at least was when those things were invented, at a very primitive level. God didn't give them their land, they took it from the indians when they used european technological inventions called sailing ships to travel to the new world. If it weren't for technology, there wouldn't be any amish. So even they own their existence to technology (woodcarving, engineering, compass, sail, cartography,...).

quote:

God is pumping more materials into the earth. How cant he? He can do whatever he wants.

NEVER in nature has it ever been noticed that something does not concur with physical laws. Therefore, pumping matter into earth would mean earth getting bigger and bigger, heavier and heavier, in the end crushing us all under its gravity. Earth is NOT getting bigger, it's the same all the time. Its composition is also the same all the time. We would notice a change like that. At least we would notice huge amounts of needed materials sprouting everywhere.

Every atom of material wasted can be found in nature. So it is still there, it is not lost, therefore earth needs not get bigger, but there are two problems. First is that those atoms are now spread all over the place, and the second is that they heve made chemical connections with other materials, in fact making their extraction use more materials and energy than gaining from it.
And btw, earth is getting a little bigger all the time because of small meteorite impacts (wonder where they came from ) but it's neglegable amount.

You know, I believe that it was Newton who once said that the evidence that the god is perfect is that he corrected a perfect universe, where he doesn't have to interfere every once in a while to correct things.
Or maybe it was Kepler...
I forgot who it was. Doesn't matter anyways.

quote:

What kind of research do we need? If its not on earth, We dont need it.

Few examples:
1. Making sure that no asteroid crosses the path of the earth and collides with it. If you think that won't happen, look at what happened in siberia at the turn of the century.
2. Learning more about cosmic radiation, and methods of protection from it
3. Observing ozone layer holes over the poles which threaten animal life.
4. Weather forecasts
5. Communications
6. Getting solar energy
7. Growing mineral structures that can't be grown on earth because of gravity, which will improve industrial tools.
8. In a possible scenario of earth being destroyed by huge asteroids or black holes, having an alternative home planet.
9. Communicating with alien races if we find any.
Hope these reasons are enough for you.

quote:

And also, if their was space, Their supposably is no air in space, So why isnt all of our air going into space?

I think a 5 year old kid knows the answer to this one. Why don't the people on the south hemisphere fall down, but stay on earth? The answer is, much to your dissatisfaction, gravity. Gravity attracts oxygen molecules and makes them unable to drift into space. Have you finished elementary school?

quote:

And I refuse to read any science book, Its evil, Science is playing God.

Ok, now here you've pissed me off.
How can you say something that brought you to where you are, something that helped you defend from viruses and bacteria, something that gives you more food and water than you need, something that you yourself use while typing the messages on this forum bad???
If you think it's evil, throw away your computer, light bulbs, refrigirators, vaccines, car, pencils, papers, everything, and go naked into the wilderness. If you don't do that, then you are a hypocrite, biting the very hand that feeds you, shitting on somethig that you use every day all the time.

Science is attempting to find out more about our world, and the results of it are amazing. Imagine a neanderthal guy see the world now. He'd think he's in heaven. TV, internet, constant availability of food, health insurance, 4 times his original lifespan...
Don't forget that the average lifespan of pre-industrial societies was 20 years or so. A 40 or 50 year old person was considered an elder. A person of your ages would by now probably have half his teeth destroyed, an arm or leg missing, he'd be starving, immune system so weak that a minor disease would bring him down.

Finally, you can NOT dissaprove or say that it is evil something you don't know anything about. Your attitude portrays a person who doesn't know at all what he's talking about and yet has a statement. I have read the bible (not very thoroughly though, I admit) and I am going to a science-oriented university (electrical engeneering) so I know at least something about both things. I won't say that the bible is evil, it was written with good intents, but the results are often not on the positive side. In fact, I think that if everyone believed in people, science, and progress, instead of gods, spirits and stuff, the world would have been a much nicer place to live in.

quote:

The only reason you have such snappy comebacks is because you have been manipulated by a government (depending on where you live) or school (usually ran by the government) to believe it.

Have you ever asked yourself why? Why do the governments of all the countries give away so many resources for nothing? How can all those researchers not see that they are wrong about it all? Why are they all doing it? Why has nobody seen a fault in the system?

I'll tell you why. All the time in history when two civilizations meet which are at a different tech level, the one on a lower level looses, and gets dispersed or destroyed. Exceptions are very rare. You are not the only one who thinks this way, but when people like you get in power, the country then stagnates, and is soon overcome by other countries which have spent more money on scientific research.

My snappy response is because I one day want to be an engineer or a researcher. Sad thing is that I will use science to improve lives of people like you who will in turn dissaprove of it all and demand from the government that it cuts science funding. As I said earlier, I don't mind if you go to some forest, live your own way of life (without spreading anti-scientific propaganda, of course), and don't use any of the scientific innovations that are made. But using the very science (computers) to say that it's nonsense is just dishonest.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.