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Negociate with Terrorists (arafat)?

Heres a debate for you all... After continuous muderous acts of terrorism (ie. jan 5th, 20 dead, 115+ injured in tel aviv) does the PA deserve talks of a palistinian statehood? is it right to reward terrorists with what they want because we are scared of them? It is very clear that direct links between these terror groups and arafat exist. Arafats own Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade took responsibility for the latest massacre of innocent lives. Who nogotiates with terrorists?? why does the world put emense pressure on israel to sit down for peace when while they are in peace talks, arafat will send in more homicide bombers.

do you guys even understand that israeli national defence agencies thwart over 90% of would be bombers and shooters!!

if it wasn't for the massive buildup of israeli forces i cant imagine how much more blood would have to be spilled. how many more families have to mourne, and how many more young lives lost!

I SALUTE ISRAEL, ITS GOVERNMENT, AND ITS DECISIONS TO GO IN AFTER THE TERRORIST WHEREVER THEY MAY BE HIDING. THANK YOU FOR TRYING YOUR BEST TO KEEP THE ISRAELI STREETS SAFE OF DIRTY KILLERS. ONCE AGAIN, I SALUTE YOU!


What do you guys have to say about this? would you agree to reward terrorists?

Re: Negociate with Terrorists (arafat)?

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Heres a debate for you all... After continuous muderous acts of terrorism (ie. jan 5th, 20 dead, 115+ injured in tel aviv) does the PA deserve talks of a palistinian statehood? is it right to reward terrorists with what they want because we are scared of them? It is very clear that direct links between these terror groups and arafat exist. Arafats own Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade took responsibility for the latest massacre of innocent lives. Who nogotiates with terrorists?? why does the world put emense pressure on israel to sit down for peace when while they are in peace talks, arafat will send in more homicide bombers. do you guys even understand that israeli national defence agencies thwart over 90% of would be bombers and shooters!! if it wasn't for the massive buildup of israeli forces i cant imagine how much more blood would have to be spilled. how many more families have to mourne, and how many more young lives lost! I SALUTE ISRAEL, ITS GOVERNMENT, AND ITS DECISIONS TO GO IN AFTER THE TERRORIST WHEREVER THEY MAY BE HIDING. THANK YOU FOR TRYING YOUR BEST TO KEEP THE ISRAELI STREETS SAFE OF DIRTY KILLERS. ONCE AGAIN, I SALUTE YOU! What do you guys have to say about this? would you agree to reward terrorists?

How are you so certain that Arafat is responsible....did he say... "I DID THIS"....no

Infact.. the PA has condemed this attack in news braodcasts.

Until the Palestinian authorities demonstrate control over their populace, any negotiations with them are inherently meaningless. Hence, until such a time as they do establish control of their populace, I cannot support negotiating with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Until the Palestinian authorities demonstrate control over their populace, any negotiations with them are inherently meaningless. Hence, until such a time as they do establish control of their populace, I cannot support negotiating with them.

unfortuneately the palestinian authorities have no means of controlling the populace, due to fact the palestinian police force having no power whatsoever, or being attacked by Israeli gunships. How can you exert control with no power, you can't.
Personally I think negotiations are a complete waste of time whilst Mr Ariel "I want to be just like Adolf" Sharon is part of the Israeli political setup.
And it's a crying shame, because this conflict is definately one of the main reasons this world is such a fucked up place to be living in.

he doesn't have to say 'i did this'. by him not taking control of terror operatives in the PA controled area make him a terrorist himself. he aids them with international fund, and i still dont understand how stupid the EU is for continuing to fund their terror regime after how many millions of Aid $$ went missing. we busted the weapons that we're on the way to arafats regime... where did the money for that come from???

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike he doesn't have to say 'i did this'. by him not taking control of terror operatives in the PA controled area make him a terrorist himself. he aids them with international fund, and i still dont understand how stupid the EU is for continuing to fund their terror regime after how many millions of Aid $$ went missing. we busted the weapons that we're on the way to arafats regime... where did the money for that come from???

You are accusing.. and wil never be able to prove that he is giving them funds to enforce terrorism.

quote:

Originally posted by Az unfortuneately the palestinian authorities have no means of controlling the populace, due to fact the palestinian police force having no power whatsoever, or being attacked by Israeli gunships. How can you exert control with no power, you can't. Personally I think negotiations are a complete waste of time whilst Mr Ariel "I want to be just like Adolf" Sharon is part of the Israeli political setup. And it's a crying shame, because this conflict is definately one of the main reasons this world is such a fucked up place to be living in.

A very valid point. If Israel is serious about negotiations, they would have to take the step of allowing the Palestinians to establish a serious police force, and I definitely think they ought to.

I kind of agree with you that Sharon is not the man for the job. Even if is serious about peace, I doubt the palestinians would ever trust him.

Common sense is sometimes more valuable than written proof.

Arafat is a terrorist!
the US knows it and isn't doing anything about it only b/c of their interests with the arab world and iraq!

When the upcoming gulf war is done with... arafat will be exiled!!

ohh what a good year it will be!!



ohh, and cyrus... do you support arafat and his guvernment?
why or why not?

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Common sense is sometimes more valuable than written proof. Arafat is a terrorist! the US knows it and isn't doing anything about it only b/c of their interests with the arab world and iraq! When the upcoming gulf war is done with... arafat will be exiled!! ohh what a good year it will be!! ohh, and cyrus... do you support arafat and his guvernment? why or why not?

I am still uncertain about Arafat.. as i think he has taken some of the funds under his own hand for luxury.. but i havent found any hard core evidence that he supports terrorism.. so in a way.. i support his intentions to "liberate " the palestinians.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter I kind of agree with you that Sharon is not the man for the job. Even if is serious about peace, I doubt the palestinians would ever trust him.

only the palestinians?? I don't trust him, and I'm utterly ashamed that my government has any dealings with the man whatsoever

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Common sense is sometimes more valuable than written proof. Arafat is a terrorist!

get your coat

sorry I was too busy laughing at the previous post to read the rest of it

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike the US knows it and isn't doing anything about it only b/c of their interests with the arab world and iraq! When the upcoming gulf war is done with... arafat will be exiled!! ohh what a good year it will be!!

Firstly, someone please tell me if I'm wrong, Yasser Arafat isn't on the list of known terrorists, and none of the organisations he is officially affiliated with have had assets seized by either the US or the UK (I say officially, because people have said on this board he's the leader of Hamas and other groups on this board, without a shred of evidence, and in this day and age, everybody knows everything about everyone else). Thats why the US haven't done anything (which surprises me, as they seem to supply Israel with enough weaponry to persecute his people......but thats another argument, which I've been drawn into before, and dont feel like arguing at this time )
Do you actually think the upcoming Gulf war is a good thing??? Careful lads, we've got a live one!. This war has been started by the same people that started the last gulf war, and for nothing as noble as defending the good people of Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel etc... It's because of Oil, plain and simple. The west is running out, and one of the few places on earth that still has shitloads is Iraq ,why does it have shitloads? oh yes, trading sanctions, heavily supported by Saudi Arabia + other Oil Rich arab countries so they can monopolise the oil market!, and the last thing the US would want to do is lift the sanctions and line Saddams pockets
Also notice under the EIGHT years of the Clinton administration, war was always the last resort, and always averted, and as soon as the big W comes to power, it was the first thing that comes to mind. Might because both Bushes (Senior and Junior), and a fair few of the big guns in his administration (I'll get the names and business involved tomorrow if you want), stand to make a killingthrough the oil that will be procured from Iraq.
Not to mention the huge amount of tension that a war will cause in the middle east, plus the increased risk in terrorist attacks.
Anyone that can possibly agree with a new gulf war is a retard in truest sense of the word.

Az.. you took the words right out of my mouth....

Melech mike obviously hopes for bloodshed in the new year.. but cries about it when his people are affected... what a hipocrate.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Az.. you took the words right out of my mouth.... Melech mike obviously hopes for bloodshed in the new year.. but cries about it when his people are affected... what a hipocrate.

not another Israel-Palestian thread.

Negotiating with terrorist is not a good way to end terrorism. Arafat had 30+ years to reach SOME kind of agreement with Israel. If he hasn't been able to achieve something in that time span, I believe it is time for him to step aside and give someone else a shot at it ya?

A little bloodshed now is better than a lot of bloodshed later!

if we are able to eliminate the senior levels of command in the PA and wipe out the terror groups in the region (and sooner or later abroad as well), than we can push the government to reform. A lot of lives will be saved down the road!!

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike A little bloodshed now is better than a lot of bloodshed later! if we are able to eliminate the senior levels of command in the PA and wipe out the terror groups in the region (and sooner or later abroad as well), than we can push the government to reform. A lot of lives will be saved down the road!!

That will create martyredom and cause more deaths.

not if you put in 1000s of peace keeping brigades throughout the territories!

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike A little bloodshed now is better than a lot of bloodshed later!

you can't make an ommelette without breaking a few eggs eh?

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike if we are able to eliminate the senior levels of command in the PA and wipe out the terror groups in the region (and sooner or later abroad as well), than we can push the government to reform. A lot of lives will be saved down the road!!

So you don't like a country's government, you get rid of it, and place one in that'll give into what you want. Thats illegal you muppet, but then again when have israel ever done anything by the book

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Arafat had 30+ years to reach SOME kind of agreement with Israel.

I wouldn't negotiate with the Israeli government if they were bombing refugee camps, launching missile attacks at police stations, bombing hospitals etc.... would you?
no

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike not if you put in 1000s of peace keeping brigades throughout the territories!

your mental

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King That will create martyredom and cause more deaths.

ya in the short run, but how can you be so sure in the long run?

maybe a new pal government will step in that the people love, and will be good to them?

quote:

Originally posted by Az So you don't like a country's government, you get rid of it, and place one in that'll give into what you want. Thats illegal you muppet, but then again when have israel ever done anything by the book

Its not ILLEGAL: first this 'country' delcared war on Israel via its numerous bloody assualts on its land that has killed scores of its citizen. When an act of war is made upon a country, that nation has the legitmate right to defend itself. What is so hard to get there?

Sometimes, the replacement of the enemies government is the prossess is very much acceptable. Look at Afghanistan, Germany, and Japan, just as known examples.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Its not ILLEGAL: first this 'country' delcared war on Israel via its numerous bloody assualts on its land that has killed scores of its citizen. When an act of war is made upon a country, that nation has the legitmate right to defend itself. What is so hard to get there?

Ha! and the Israelis have never killed palestinian citizens?? I'm pretty damn sure you guys are in the lead in that one.
And assassination of heads of state is ILLEGAL whether it's war or not, check it out

quote:

Originally posted by Az Ha! and the Israelis have never killed palestinian citizens?? I'm pretty damn sure you guys are in the lead in that one. And assassination of heads of state is ILLEGAL whether it's war or not, check it out

Where is it Illegal, I'm curious, you might be right.. but I didn't know it was illegal. Seems a bit foolish to be illegal, espeically in time of war.

By the fact that you say Israelis have killed palestinians citizens you are acknowledging the war, right? After all, citizens will die in war, you do know this too right? Its just how things are, sadly.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Where is it Illegal, I'm curious, you might be right.. but I didn't know it was illegal. Seems a bit foolish to be illegal, espeically in time of war. By the fact that you say Israelis have killed palestinians citizens you are acknowledging the war, right? After all, citizens will die in war, you do know this too right? Its just how things are, sadly.

Yes I'm acknowledging it's a war between the Israelis and palestinians, I've never thought that was in question?
UN and Nato have an immense list of the rules of war (being constantly updated by people in the know), and assassinating heads of state is illegal, it's why the allied forces can't just kill Saddam Hussein, as they would be liable to prosecution etc...
I'm sure there will be some website with the rules of war, I just can't be arsed to check

quote:

Originally posted by Az Yes I'm acknowledging it's a war between the Israelis and palestinians, I've never thought that was in question? UN and Nato have an immense list of the rules of war (being constantly updated by people in the know), and assassinating heads of state is illegal, it's why the allied forces can't just kill Saddam Hussein, as they would be liable to prosecution etc... I'm sure there will be some website with the rules of war, I just can't be arsed to check

Well you'll have to check if you'd like to convience me, and others who might be reading this thread.

As far as I know, their is NO international law barring assassination of heads of state, espeically in times of war.

THERE IS, however, a USA executive order (that means a law made by a president, which can be undone also by the president) which bars the military and special forces (intelligence) from assassination heads of state. This was initially based into law I think under Carter, and has not been undone since. But this is a self-imposed constraint on the USA, and is not applicable to other countries who have their own soverighty. As far as I know, no UN, or Geneva convention mentions such assinations.

Furthermore, Israel has not assasinated a single head of state, or attempted ever to do such (as far as we know). Israel has, 'assasinated' known terrorist, and even high level terrorist. On the other hand, it is quiet well established that Arafat's own organization the PLO and its offshots were responsible for many assasination attempts, such as those on the Jordianin king.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus By the fact that you say Israelis have killed palestinians citizens you are acknowledging the war, right? After all, citizens will die in war, you do know this too right? Its just how things are, sadly.

if citizens get killed in war (and that is just how things are), then why is everyone arguing about innocent israeli citizens being killed? according to you, that is just part of this whole war/problem, isnt it?

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